Still want an EV?

[gonzo]

I'm 99.9% sure if we kicked Powell and Yellen to the curb, Ef30 could do BOTH their jobs MUCH better.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

That's why my E90 has 420,000 miles on it. It's still worth it to repair than buy new. It's currently at $0.31 per mile. INCLUDING tires. Lol.

I read somewhere about how people look at a guy in a new range rover and a guy in an old golf.
The former appears rich but is £100,000 poorer as he's leased the car and the latter appears poor but is richer by £100,000 than the former.
Perspectives....

[MmmmmM2]

I love that everyone in here is now totally ignoring BGM-M3COMP.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Lmaooooooo

Doesn’t bother me. Time will make me smile even more.

Love it!

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Insurance and tires are big parts of a car ownership. So if you’re just gonna “throw them out”, let’s just throw out the base price of the car.

I see you’re going to argue your point with whatever is “convenient” to throw out that day, you’re never going to see the other side of the argument.

Hundreds of thousands of buyers do. If you don’t want to, fine. But don’t pretend that the rest of us are stupid for buying an electric car, or electrified version.

Shawn

Got ‘em!!!!!!! Lmaoooo

Where’s socal when you need him? He gotta join this fun.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

I read somewhere about how people look at a guy in a new range rover and a guy in an old golf.
The former appears rich but is £100,000 poorer as he's leased the car and the latter appears poor but is richer by £100,000 than the former.
Perspectives....

There's always the "hidden wealth". For the most part, the ballers and posers never really have real equity.

Knowing when and where you can spend a little, and when and where to keep your assets safe and in solid (not crypto) therapy.

Shawn

[BGM-M3COMP]

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

And I've never said anyone is stupid for buying an EV (I actually believe the opposite*), rather, I have repeatedly stated BEV are not less expensive to own. All one has to understand is BEV are being mandated by governments around the world for a reason. The reason is EV has to be incentivised by tax payers to lower the cost of ownership because most people do not see any financial reason to switch to EV. If BEV were that great, no incentives would be necessary to own them.

Buy whatever vehicle you want, just don't force others to do the same.

The data you presented earlier proves that point perfectly, the Model 3 was shown to cost 5 cents more per mile to own than the Camry. Using real pricing, 11 cents more per mile.

* in other words most people are anti-stupid enough to still see ICE as the better overall value.

I bought an EV with no tax incentives. We have fairly cheap power in FL so it costs around $6 to "fill" my model 3 long range. If it was double and cost me $12 I would have still bought it. So surely SOME people still buy them without any incentives because they find it to be a better product.

You can argue about tax incentive and government mandates until you're blue in the face... and you have. I don't agree with any of them and I still think that for MOST people who can charge at home the EV experience is superior to an ICE vehicle. Like someone said in another post about the right tool for the right job. An EV IMO is the perfect everyday commuting vehicle. When we are home in FL I pretty much never take the Cayenne out because the overall experience with the model 3 is so much better.

Oh but those condo people and the people who travel cross country every other week... oh what shall they do... don't buy an EV. Like all the people who don't buy an F350 dually because they have nothing to tow. Or the people who don't own a car at all because they live in a big city and driving is a pain and there's nowhere to park etc.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Of course not my math. Don’t have a Tesla. But $2000 over 60,000 miles is not “utter nonsense”. Unless you DIY, it could easily be that. Even if you DIY, one set of tires can push it to that.

You can argue the figures if you want, but it’s within realm. Too many people back that up, including me. My hybrids TCO’s are much smaller than the corresponding regular. The increase in cost over the regular is cancelled out over time.

Shawn

Do teslas not need tires?

[Limegrntaln]

I would get rid of my commuter and my G82. No reason to keep both cars when I have one that I can charge for a few dollars.

My main dig is my $600-$700 a month fuel bill. I spent $744.08 last month. That's a whole nother car payment.

I could do a Plaid for $1,600-$1,800, get rid of my G82, that's $1,635, and my Accord Touring, that's $560. $700 in gas, and $260 a month in insurance. A Plaid would still be cheaper.

$2,100 a month with charging and insurance is better than $3,155.

[AlpineBoost]

Originally Posted by Limegrntaln

I would get rid of my commuter and my G82. No reason to keep both cars when I have one that I can charge for a few dollars.

My main dig is my $600-$700 a month fuel bill. I spent $744.08 last month. That's a whole nother car payment.

I could do a Plaid for $1,600-$1,800, get rid of my G82, that's $1,635, and my Accord Touring, that's $560. $700 in gas, and $260 a month in insurance. A Plaid would still be cheaper.

$2,100 a month with charging and insurance is better than $3,155.

$744 in a month for gas How many miles do you drive per year? I'd have to drive almost 38k miles annually to spend that in a month and that's 93 oct at 17 mpg.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Bingo bango! People are starting to come to their senses!! lmaoooo

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

There are no laws in place or incentives to force people to eventually buy only a F350 dually. There are no laws in place or incentives to eventually force city dwellers to buy cars when they can walk instead and there is no place to park one.

So what is your point?

I just bought an ICE miata, my sister in law just bought a massive gas guzzling suv. So clearly there are no laws in place to force anyone to buy an EV. So what is your point?

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I just bought an ICE miata, my sister in law just bought a massive gas guzzling suv. So clearly there are no laws in place to force anyone to buy an EV. So what is your point?

Well, just in case you're new to the thread it seems that governments all over the place are going to ban the sale of ICE vehicles in the next few years.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Well, just in case you're new to the thread it seems that governments all over the place are going to ban the sale of ICE vehicles in the next few years.

Governments say they are going to do all kinds of nonsense. Let me know when an actual ban happens. How many administrations will have come and gone between now and 2035???

Shit probably more likely we'll be living in a post nuclear apocalypse by 2035. Or I might just finally be voted ruler of the universe and you all will be forced to drive miatas with the top down rain or shine.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Governments say they are going to do all kinds of nonsense. Let me know when an actual ban happens. How many administrations will have come and gone between now and 2035???

Shit probably more likely we'll be living in a post nuclear apocalypse by 2035. Or I might just finally be voted ruler of the universe and you all will be forced to drive miatas with the top down rain or shine.

Yes, governments are full of shit. But given the push I'd say a lot of folks are concerned about the government shit, and it's the topic of discussion on this thread. Quite a few folks here, including me have been punching holes in the idea but it is a discussion just the same.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Yes, governments are full of shit. But given the push I'd say a lot of folks are concerned about the government shit, and it's the topic of discussion on this thread. Quite a few folks here, including me have been punching holes in the idea but it is a discussion just the same.

The topic of the thread WAS "Still want an EV?" at some point in became lets just bitch over and over about some possible, proposed, EV mandates a decade from now. It's basically been that now for who knows how long. Every now and then someone comes along and tries to change the topic but the current administration in here will have none of that.

I was just responding to the idea that no one is buying EVs if it wasn't for the incentives. I just stated I bought one with no incentives just because I think it's a better product. So have many people given the fact that Tesla hasn't had any tax rebates for a while up until this year and yet they were setting sales records all the time. And even though I think it's superior to ICE for a LOT of people... I don't think it should be mandated and I don't think it will.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

The topic of the thread WAS "Still want an EV?" at some point in became lets just bitch over and over about some possible, proposed, EV mandates a decade from now. It's basically been that now for who knows how long. Every now and then someone comes along and tries to change the topic but the current administration in here will have none of that.

I was just responding to the idea that no one is buying EVs if it wasn't for the incentives. I just stated I bought one with no incentives just because I think it's a better product. So have many people given the fact that Tesla hasn't had any tax rebates for a while up until this year and yet they were setting sales records all the time. And even though I think it's superior to ICE for a LOT of people... I don't think it should be mandated and I don't think it will.

I don't disagree, I think if there were no incentives/rebates then sales would be pretty low. I guess time will tell.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I just bought an ICE miata, my sister in law just bought a massive gas guzzling suv. So clearly there are no laws in place to force anyone to buy an EV. So what is your point?

And I just bought an ICE ORV (that returned 24 MPG last tank). But there are laws in place re: California and possibly 18 other states if they keep true to Cali's emissions standards. And the current Administration's EPA proposed emissions standards, which may come before Cali's 2035 ICE ban. And with the last several administration's propensities to just enact Executive Orders (like declaring a "climate emergency " - which has been threatened by the current Executive Branch), emissions standards could be changed overnight.

But again, the early 2000's era EV tax incentives were sunset at the end of GFY 2020 until the 2022 Inflation Reduction Act reestablished the incentives. When you bought your Tesla it was during the time Tesla long ran out of slots, or you bought your EV used. The current law now allows a 1-time secondary tax credit for buying used EV. That was never in the original incentives program. So, sorry, there are incentives in place now to buy EV. If EV was that great of a product incentives to purchase them would not be necessary as same for the planned ICE ban in 2035.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I don't disagree, I think if there were no incentives/rebates then sales would be pretty low. I guess time will tell.

That's my point. It's not true. At least not for Tesla from the data I have seen. Their rebates started getting cut in 2019 and were completely gone by 2020 yet they set sales records every year even though they had no tax credits. The data I have seen indicates this year might end up being lower than last year when they had no incentives. Of course inflation and all rest of it I'm sure plays a role, but if incentives were the primary motivating factor in people buying a Tesla vs an ICE then between 2019-2022 sales should have declined and they only increased.

As an ex-ev hater I think the reason they don't sell more is because of false range anxiety fears and political/social stigma associated with them. My guess is if anyone who is a candidate for an EV (has a home with garage or somewhere to charge it) was given an EV to use for a few weeks... I think the majority of them would be converts.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

Do teslas not need tires?

Yes they do. The discussion above was that $2000 in maintenance on a Camry was called “utter nonsense”. It’s not. 60,000 miles in an ICE vehicle can incur significant maintenance cost. My experience is that electrics are less due to less fluid reservoirs in general. The tires are generally more, but not always.


It was just a discussion point.

Shawn

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Yes they do. The discussion above was that $2000 in maintenance on a Camry was called “utter nonsense”. It’s not. 60,000 miles in an ICE vehicle can incur significant maintenance cost. My experience is that electrics are less due to less fluid reservoirs in general. The tires are generally more, but not always.


It was just a discussion point.

Shawn

You brought up the Camry as the comparison vehicle. As I stated, per Toyota's website the Camry requires 10,000-mile OCI and 3 cabin filters at 1 engine air filter. So that's 6 oil changes and $400 in air filters non-DIY. No way that adds to $2,000. And chatboy's 45% depreciation seems a bit over estimated for the Camry. Tires and insurance costs have no bearing on comparing ICE vs. EV maintenance costs. Taking tire and insurance costs out of the calculations HELPS the Tesla's case; I'd bet my next paycheck a Model 3 eats more-expensive tires faster than a Camry SE. And the Tesla costs more to insure.