How many of you have gone to college? Was it worth it?

[turboawd]

Dropped out of college and started a construction business. No regrets.

[Mosaud1998]

Wow, wasn't expecting all these responses. A lot of great answers. I decided I will be going to college and getting my bachelor's degree in Operation Management and Information Systems since nowadays you can't get a "good job" without at least a bachelor's. In terms of getting a master's or MBA, I am hoping once I get my bachelor's degree and find a job, my employer might be willing to pay for the master's degree. If not, I'll see what I'll do. I'll spend 1.5-2 years at either University of Illinois at Chicago or Northern Illinois University (spend around $31k-$40 (max) including tuition, books, and rent/commute). I doubt I'll get promoted at my sales job in 2 years so I rather not risk my college education for the sales job even though I've learned a lot and really do enjoy the job. At the end of the day, I can always start my own dealership (yes, I know it'll require a lot of work and licenses) or work for one with my degree but in a different department other than sales.

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by Noneya

I take it you also yell at kids who get on your lawn.

I interview around 50 college kids per year, and while most fail, the ones that don't have undoubtedly learned their skills in school (plus of course independent experimentation and usage of those skills). Is it possible to learn same skills outside of school - absolutely, but it's just not something that I ever see.

That said usefulness of college for future jobs is obviously degree dependent.

I tell them to get off my lawn, and due to their piss-poor excuse for an education none of them can construct an argument even remotely sufficient to convince me that they should stay.

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by Noneya

I take it you also yell at kids who get on your lawn.

I interview around 50 college kids per year, and while most fail, the ones that don't have undoubtedly learned their skills in school (plus of course independent experimentation and usage of those skills). Is it possible to learn same skills outside of school - absolutely, but it's just not something that I ever see.

That said usefulness of college for future jobs is obviously degree dependent.

I'm curious as to the "skills" of which you speak. Do tell.

[Humdizzle]

i did the whole college, med school, residency, to clinic job path. hard to say if its worth it. Its a good gig. but money isn't everything. Sucks having a job where you have alot of responsibility and get calls on your day off. Even though i'm there only 40 hours a week I'm jealous of my buddies and gf who get to work from home all week with flexible hours. taking walks or cruises whenever, hitting the bong, playing call of duty.

i guess its just a grass is greener on the other side thing. they think i'm lucky with the cars and income. i think they're lucky with their freedom and being able to work in pajamas.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by tcphoto

A College Education is not just about the degree and potential jobs, it is the process of learning, thinking and solving problems. Then you factor in the emotional and social development one goes through and how it brings you from a young person to an adult.

I did not have the opportunity to finish my education and it's one of my greatest regrets. You can be successful in your job but a degree will give you more opportunities in life. The direction our country is going in now, there will be chances to be reimbursed for tuition or greatly reduced. Do it while you are single and have few bills or you'll never do it.

Originally Posted by qba335i

+1

My brother went to law school and currently finishing his PhD. He works in a tech startup. He says that 3 years in law school showed him how to think and analyze things. He never intended to practice law.

I 100% disagree with the above. I agree more with pennsiveguy below. The drive to learn and the ability to problem solve are skills that someone either has or doesn't. Yes, some of the mechanics can be taught or learned. But overall, it's a trait similar to people who are musically inclined. You can teach someone to play an instrument but can they PLAY the instrument?

I've used the example of a girl I knew in college that was a straight A student studying EE. Could she analyze the crap out of a circuit diagram? Sure. Could she apply that to something so simple as to resetting a circuit breaker? Nope/fail.

The other side of the extreme. I have a friend that used to be a ASE Master Tech. Owned a repair shop for a while. The guy was brilliant around diagnosing electrical and computer systems in modern cars. Attended college but dropped out. Dealerships would send their problem child cars to him to fix.

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

I went to college back when college was a place where smart kids like me got to hone their intellects to a fine edge, so that they could then apply them to real-world problems.

Nowadays college is the very opposite of that. It's a cesspool of moral relativism, Post-Modern indoctrination, and the complete rejection of the very notion of truth.

I no longer hire college graduates - ever - unless a particular candidate presents him/herself as a compelling exception. I run a company which produces software, which is nothing more than building useful and well-thought-out things out of logical Lego blocks, with rigorous attention to detail and business logic. I need people with clear heads who accept no dogma and question everything. The notion that "We do things this way, because this is the way we do things" is an abomination in our business model.

University graduates are generally ill-suited to our operations. They've been indoctrinated to conform. I have zero respect for someone who thinks they should conform to my ideas merely because I'm the boss. Someone who's got balls enough to say to me "Yeah, well that's a horseshit idea because..." instantly has my attention.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Mosaud1998

Wow, wasn't expecting all these responses. A lot of great answers. I decided I will be going to college and getting my bachelor's degree in Operation Management and Information Systems since nowadays you can't get a "good job" without at least a bachelor's. In terms of getting a master's or MBA, I am hoping once I get my bachelor's degree and find a job, my employer might be willing to pay for the master's degree. If not, I'll see what I'll do. I'll spend 1.5-2 years at either University of Illinois at Chicago or Northern Illinois University (spend around $31k-$40 (max) including tuition, books, and rent/commute). I doubt I'll get promoted at my sales job in 2 years so I rather not risk my college education for the sales job even though I've learned a lot and really do enjoy the job. At the end of the day, I can always start my own dealership (yes, I know it'll require a lot of work and licenses) or work for one with my degree but in a different department other than sales.

No need for a dealership or college degree if you are good at sales.

Start your own car brokerage. There are a TON of leasing brokers in NYC and the owners do incredibly well. You need to have existing clientele and great sales/marketing skills and also ability to hire/train other sales ppl.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Mosaud1998

Wow, wasn't expecting all these responses. A lot of great answers. I decided I will be going to college and getting my bachelor's degree in Operation Management and Information Systems since nowadays you can't get a "good job" without at least a bachelor's. In terms of getting a master's or MBA, I am hoping once I get my bachelor's degree and find a job, my employer might be willing to pay for the master's degree. If not, I'll see what I'll do. I'll spend 1.5-2 years at either University of Illinois at Chicago or Northern Illinois University (spend around $31k-$40 (max) including tuition, books, and rent/commute). I doubt I'll get promoted at my sales job in 2 years so I rather not risk my college education for the sales job even though I've learned a lot and really do enjoy the job. At the end of the day, I can always start my own dealership (yes, I know it'll require a lot of work and licenses) or work for one with my degree but in a different department other than sales.

If you're really serious about getting into IT, a master's won't do squat for you unless you're looking to get into academics or heavy into R&D. Even many of the SMEs I know in the various disciplines under IT don't have masters. Unless you want to get into management, I'd think you're wasting your time.

If you want to get something to hang on the wall to get further in IT, do a certification. For security, get a CISSP. For networking, get a CCIE.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

If you're really serious about getting into IT, a master's won't do squat for you unless you're looking to get into academics or heavy into R&D. Even many of the SMEs I know in the various disciplines under IT don't have masters. Unless you want to get into management, I'd think you're wasting your time.

If you want to get something to hang on the wall to get further in IT, do a certification. For security, get a CISSP. For networking, get a CCIE.

+1

Certifications and work experience are way more important in IT. I have a bachelor's in another field, but if I had known I would end up in IT it would've been better for me to do an internship while getting network training/certifications. One of my friends who works for my company is 3 years younger than me. He did a 1.5 year IT networking certification program right out of college. Zero debt, started out making $70k his first day with the company.

While degrees shouldn't be dismissed, work experience (internships) and training are huge. Companies want people they can hire and stick out in the field to get shit done, not someone who doesn't know what to do and needs their hand held.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

I've used the example of a girl I knew in college that was a straight A student studying EE. Could she analyze the crap out of a circuit diagram? Sure. Could she apply that to something so simple as to resetting a circuit breaker? Nope/fail.

I have seen a similar example. Older woman coming back to school as a math major. Straight A student from calculus on up in her math classes. Took Physics 101 in her senior year...and FAILED...miserably! All the math classes in the world are useless if you have problems applying units to your answers.

I've got similar issues with colleagues at work. Four year degrees in CompSci or IT, and can't troubleshoot a simple problem that doesn't involve rebooting. Did you check the logs? Do you understand what the logs are telling you? One of them in particular can kick the proverbial can down the road for weeks, calling tech support because he plugged a cable into the wrong port and never verified the basics.

Speaking of which, I need to go yell at a vendor now for majorly exceeding SLA over a failed SAN controller unit that has been kicked down the road for three weeks now with 120 TB of much-needed disk offline.....

[nyalpine90]

i attended CUNY college for Electronic Engineering, graduated with A.A.S degree
but i didnt like it. I made an attempt to get Bachelors, but i really couldn't manage full time job and night school. Now im a Plumbing Designer, maybe some day I will make plans to be P.E.

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

If you're really serious about getting into IT, a master's won't do squat for you unless you're looking to get into academics or heavy into R&D. Even many of the SMEs I know in the various disciplines under IT don't have masters. Unless you want to get into management, I'd think you're wasting your time.

If you want to get something to hang on the wall to get further in IT, do a certification. For security, get a CISSP. For networking, get a CCIE.

In the software end of IT, degrees are worth doodly-squat. And certifications aren't worth much either - they're generally something someone gets in order to make up for the fact that they haven't written much code. I recently looked through the course descriptions for the Master's Degree program at my alma mater. I could teach 90% of them, so why would I pay to be a student there?

If you're a staff programmer at an old-fashioned company then a Master's will move you up onto a higher pay scale. They'll probably reimburse you for your tuition along the way. But you'll still be making less than a contractor. A staff software engineer with a Master's degree at a Fortune 500 company probably makes $250K on the coasts and $140-150 here in the Midwest. My top contractors make $250K+ here in the Midwest, where the cost of living is much lower than on either coast yet we have more than a dozen Fortune 500 companies headquartered here and lots more that have extensive technical staff here.

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

+1

Certifications and work experience are way more important in IT. I have a bachelor's in another field, but if I had known I would end up in IT it would've been better for me to do an internship while getting network training/certifications. One of my friends who works for my company is 3 years younger than me. He did a 1.5 year IT networking certification program right out of college. Zero debt, started out making $70k his first day with the company.

While degrees shouldn't be dismissed, work experience (internships) and training are huge. Companies want people they can hire and stick out in the field to get shit done, not someone who doesn't know what to do and needs their hand held.

The places turning out the best programmers right now are the "boot camps." They're intensive, immersive hands-on training programs that focus exclusively on building good software; no "Grievance Studies" courses anywhere to be found. The best ones turn out people who are way ahead of where the top university graduates are in terms of coding chops. Someone from one of these boot camps who's coming from a previous career that involved problem solving and tinkering - the building trades, auto tech, transportation - is a great candidate for an entry-level position. That's who I'd hire, if I hired entry-level staff.

[Noneya]

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

I'm curious as to the "skills" of which you speak. Do tell.

Statistics, machine learning, computer science, math.

[M_Six]

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

The places turning out the best programmers right now are the "boot camps." They're intensive, immersive hands-on training programs that focus exclusively on building good software; no "Grievance Studies" courses anywhere to be found. The best ones turn out people who are way ahead of where the top university graduates are in terms of coding chops. Someone from one of these boot camps who's coming from a previous career that involved problem solving and tinkering - the building trades, auto tech, transportation - is a great candidate for an entry-level position. That's who I'd hire, if I hired entry-level staff.

My nephew went through a 13-week boot camp run by Microsoft for cybersecurity coding. He had no previous coding experience at all. 13 weeks and he was done. Got hired by the first firm he applied to for over $100k. If I were 15 years younger, I'd be taking one of those bootcamps now.

[GenXer]

I have no regrets going to college. Most of my tuition was paid by the G.I. Bill.

There's no guarantee of any kind that you will ever get a job after you graduate. You will likely make less money than a person from a trade school.

You might be exposed to courses in ethics, the arts or critical thinking which may or may not translate to anything useful. You may use what you have learned to cheat, steal and lie.

You might have majored in philosophy and wondered what the hell you're doing with your life.

College is not for everyone nor should it be. If you want to be a billionaire entrepreneur, go to college and then quit as soon as possible.

However, if you're an average middle class schmuck and don't mind making a decent wage without doing a lot of manual work, college is a way to go.

[TboneS54]

Jobs are for suckers. Start investing and start a business. There's no shortage of ideas.

[Mosaud1998]

Originally Posted by TboneS54

Jobs are for suckers. Start investing and start a business. There's no shortage of ideas.

I've been investing in stocks since I was 18. I'll probably start investing in real estate after college is over and maybe open up a business

[TboneS54]

You're on your way. I was lucky enough to start right after the 2008/09 crash.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Mosaud1998

I am 22 years old currently working in the automotive industry (selling cars) and also attending my local community college. I am thinking about transferring over to a 4-year university after the spring semester is over (5/2021) and pursuing a Bachelors's degree in information and decision science. With what's going on, I am not sure if a college education really is worth all that money, effort, or stress. The 4-year university will roughly cost me $31k for two years and that's not including rent and other fees. I am not too confident about how the job market will look in 3 years or how the economy will be because of the pandemic. I am kind of stuck between keeping my sales job and potentially moving into a management position after a few years or quitting, going to the 4-year university, and risk not getting a job after graduating. I really enjoy my job but my parents (Asian parents) want me to go to school and get an education even though I made a decent amount of money my first year at Kia (made around $55k). I know $55k isn't a lot of money if I had a family, mortgage, and whatnot but for a 22 year old, that's a lot IMO. I am the youngest salesperson there behind the Finance manager that is 25 years old and makes about $80k-$100k/year (depending on how many extra things he sells like warranty, protection, and maintenance packages). I am hearing he might get promoted to the General Sales Manager position since the original GSM got fired.

You can always go back to being a car salesman if you can't get a job with a bachelors, however, you cannot get a job that requires a bachelors if you don't have one. And from my experience, $100k/yr including commission after 25 years of selling cars is not as attractive as doing a job that you chose to do because it's in a field you enjoy even for the same pay. Likely, it will be more.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by M_Six

My nephew went through a 13-week boot camp run by Microsoft for cybersecurity coding. He had no previous coding experience at all. 13 weeks and he was done. Got hired by the first firm he applied to for over $100k. If I were 15 years younger, I'd be taking one of those bootcamps now.

I did something similar when I started out. Although I do have a degree, it's not in my current field. Instead, I took a crash course for a vital piece of software that we use in my industry. I went every night after work to learn this program. That opened a lot of doors for me.

[strohw]

Perhaps I'm looking at this a bit different than most of the posters here that are giving their opinion based on their experiences. My response is going to be a logical assertion.

If the career you want to pursue requires a degree to either be interviewed or hired then you need a degree. If you are able to get on the job experience in the career path you want without a degree then one is not required. Your foresight should be broad enough to also evaluate the positions in your career path. If the base line job does not require a degree but promotions within the career path do then you will eventually need to work towards a degree.