[richard in NC]

Originally Posted by cptobvious

+1

Economists talk about "stated preference" versus "revealed preference." Stated preference is just another term for "lies." When words come out of human beings' mouths, 98% of it is all signaling, and as a result, almost none of it is true. Revealed preference, meanwhile, is truth, as your actions cannot be faked, and reveal your real preferences.

I work at one of the FAAMNGs. (I know I'm not supposed to include Microsoft in the acronym, but whatever.) The company just completed its big annual employee survey. All the execs in our department are talking about how we have to come up with plans to systematically address short-comings identified in the survey. I almost had an aneurysm, and finally couldn't bite my tongue any longer.

"Quick question, guys. What is our voluntary employee attrition rate? Do high performers leave us at a higher rate than high performing employees leave any of our FAAMNGs competitors? Do we think that if we don't address these complaints in the survey that somehow a large portion of our employee base will defect to another Big Tech company?"

Answer: "No! Our voluntary attrition rate is way below our competitors' rate."

Me: "Ah! So, in other words, we just have a bunch of little whiny bitches complaining about stuff, yeah? These are the same people who complain and say 'sushi again???' when we feed them all-you-can-eat for free at lunch? These are the same people who are complaining that the $1,000 bonus we gave them to buy whatever the F*** they wanted to buy to make their work from home setup better wasn't enough? And they're soooooooooooo pissed about the free massages, the free haircuts, the free bourbon, the free gyms, the free clothing, the student loan reimbursements, the $10k/year 401k match, and the free childcare that they're staying instead of leaving for other companies? Explain to me again why we need to do anything other than give them the middle finger with regard to their bitching on this survey?"

So, yeah, lots and lots and lots of bitching... everywhere.

Free bourbon? Sign me up!

[Sublime00]

Originally Posted by Tag

I'm not. BMW is a multinational corporation with a reputation at stake. They wouldn't spend millions of dollars on a factory and train an entire workforce if they couldn't produce cars the same as they do anywhere else. There were similar concerns when they built both their Spartanburg USA and Rosslyn SA plants. Both are now world class production facilities. Once cars start rolling out and people see they are just like any other bimmer you'll find the stigma go away and people won't even talk about it anymore.

Stigma may eventually go away but the reason that people are hesitant is bc it's a new facility producing a new car.

An older factory that has years of experience has probably worked out the kinks.

Same holds true of why some people avoid buying a first year model run to avoid some of the quality control issues that are usually resolved by the end of production date, opting for a final model year car.

It's just another variable to consider for a buyer and will definitely be a factor for some of not many M buyers.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by Sublime00

Stigma may eventually go away but the reason that people are hesitant is bc it's a new facility producing a new car.

An older factory that has years of experience has probably worked out the kinks.

Same holds true of why some people avoid buying a first year model run to avoid some of the quality control issues that are usually resolved by the end of production date, opting for a final model year car.

It's just another variable to consider for a buyer and will definitely be a factor for some of not many M buyers.

The plant started operations in 2019. The G42 starts production this June and will have been in production for 1.5 years by the time the G87 goes into production. Furthermore BMW brings their best people physically onsite to ensure a new factory runs just like an established one.

I know that no matter what the facts are people will be reluctant for reasons you outline as well as ones we can't even think of. Can't do anything about that other than let it play out.

[ChrisK]

Z4-M2?

[Moflow]

Honestly, i think that looks pretty great, all things considered. Don't love the headlights, but probably prefer the more pronounced rear fenders over the ones on the F87.

Nice to see a rendering that isn't blatantly based on the current gen car.

[Karmic Man]

Like...

[veenut28]

I'd love to see the isle of man green on the g87...might make it hard to resist

[Davil]

Nice.

[pz619]

Originally Posted by veenut28

I'd love to see the isle of man green on the g87...might make it hard to resist

This. Would take that green in a M2 in a heart beat.

[NathObeaN]

Here's to secretly hoping the G87 M2 isn't that good… because I don't want to be tempted to sell my M2C

[Davil]

I believe this signals the next M2 is now officially the new M3. Long live the M3. It all got a bit confused with M3/4 and so on. Back to the future.

This is going to be a pretty cool car.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by NathObeaN

Here's to secretly hoping the G87 M2 isn't that good… because I don't want to be tempted to sell my M2C

No worries, you're just echoing the sentiment of every current owner; sour grapes is a bitch.. But you're not suppose to say that part out loud, just make some passive-aggressive criticism of a model that doesn't even exist yet, to satiate your adversity.. 😶

What the naysays doesn't get is you can't stop progress, the next one is always going to be better than the last, that's a fact.. The quicker you come to terms terms with that, the more contented you'll be with your choice.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by Poochie

No worries, you're just echoing the sentiment of every current owner; sour grapes is a bitch.. But you're not suppose to say that part out loud, just make some passive-aggressive criticism of a model that doesn't even exist yet, to satiate your adversity.. 😶

What the naysays doesn't get is you can't stop progress, the next one is always going to be better than the last, that's a fact.. The quicker you come to terms terms with that, the more contented you'll be with your choice.

I chose to get maximum value for my F87 on the gamble that G87 will be fantastic.

I spoke to the dealer I want to buy from yesterday, will learn today if they will start the G87 allocation list with my name at the top.

See yinz when G87 comes out.

I'll actually still be around, of course, watching for updates.

[MR.]

Just to let you know guys... I am not following this topic since I am too busy, but I got some new info.

Individual colors will be available on 2-Series and M2. 1-Series can be ordered with individual colors from September onwards. After three years of hearing it is coming, it is finally there. Production for Europe will be at Leipzig, and US markets will be in Mexico. They will divide it between those two factories.

Also G87 will have a head-up display for those of you who would love that feature. That is next to the carbon roof as an option, the choice between manual and automatic gearboxes and all the other interior features we have seen from the new M3 and M4.

S58 up front producing around 440 hp and other than that a similar power train set up to the M3 and M4. If I have more info, I will share it here.

MR

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by MR.

Just to let you know guys... I am not following this topic since I am too busy, but I got some new info.

Individual colors will be available on 2-Series and M2. 1-Series can be ordered with individual colors from September onwards. After three years of hearing it is coming, it is finally there. Production for Europe will be at Leipzig, and US markets will be in Mexico. They will divide it between those two factories.

Also G87 will have a head-up display for those of you who would love that feature. That is next to the carbon roof as an option, the choice between manual and automatic gearboxes and all the other interior features we have seen from the new M3 and M4.

S58 up front producing around 440 hp and other than that a similar power train set up to the M3 and M4. If I have more info, I will share it here.

MR

Brilliant update, thank you!

[TheMagician]

So US model will come with some taco/salsa holders?

Based on all the new updates expect the price to sky rocket + moar electronics will mean only good to lease...

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by Poochie

No worries, you're just echoing the sentiment of every current owner; sour grapes is a bitch.. But you're not suppose to say that part out loud, just make some passive-aggressive criticism of a model that doesn't even exist yet, to satiate your adversity.. ��

What the naysays doesn't get is you can't stop progress, the next one is always going to be better than the last, that's a fact.. The quicker you come to terms terms with that, the more contented you'll be with your choice.

Short term, it's best for F87 owners if the G87 isn't very good. That will keep the value of our cars high. Long term though, I kind of wonder if it wouldn't be better if the G87 were a hit, along with whatever follows that up. The E30 M3 isn't necessarily valuable because it's rare, it's valuable because it was the first in what became a truly legendary line of vehicles.

Personally, I think the F87 is going to have a cult following no matter what, that's just what happens to really good cars.

[brainf18]

I hope they keep the same basic design, but based on recent BMW design buffoonery, I wouldn't bet on it.

....I deliberately purchased a 2021 M2C for this reason. Its a great car with a great design. The next M2 could be better, but if the past is any indication, there's no guarantee.

[Manny01]

Originally Posted by MR.

Just to let you know guys... I am not following this topic since I am too busy, but I got some new info.

Individual colors will be available on 2-Series and M2. 1-Series can be ordered with individual colors from September onwards. After three years of hearing it is coming, it is finally there. Production for Europe will be at Leipzig, and US markets will be in Mexico. They will divide it between those two factories.

Also G87 will have a head-up display for those of you who would love that feature. That is next to the carbon roof as an option, the choice between manual and automatic gearboxes and all the other interior features we have seen from the new M3 and M4.

S58 up front producing around 440 hp and other than that a similar power train set up to the M3 and M4. If I have more info, I will share it here.

MR

Based on my readings of you prior posts, seems you have a contact at BMW. That's awesome and appreciate you sharing.

Regarding the 440 hp, that's fantastic news, but I really hope that comes with no extra weight. That's my biggest concern, there seems to be a trend in the wrong direction with our M cars.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by MR.

Just to let you know guys... I am not following this topic since I am too busy, but I got some new info.

Individual colors will be available on 2-Series and M2. 1-Series can be ordered with individual colors from September onwards. After three years of hearing it is coming, it is finally there. Production for Europe will be at Leipzig, and US markets will be in Mexico. They will divide it between those two factories.

Also G87 will have a head-up display for those of you who would love that feature. That is next to the carbon roof as an option, the choice between manual and automatic gearboxes and all the other interior features we have seen from the new M3 and M4.

S58 up front producing around 440 hp and other than that a similar power train set up to the M3 and M4. If I have more info, I will share it here.

MR

This thing is going to cost an arm and a leg.

Not sure I would pay extra for the CF roof at this point. Harder to fix if something happens to it. No paintless dent guy fix. I have seen some CF roofs have peeling clear coat or yellowing. If it's a long term keeper... and it probably will be since likely last inline 6 with 6 speed, maybe you don't want to be dealing with a peeling CF roof in 10-15 years? I guess you could always take the easy way out and wrap it black at that point.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Manny01

Based on my readings of you prior posts, seems you have a contact at BMW. That's awesome and appreciate you sharing.

Regarding the 440 hp, that's fantastic news, but I really hope that comes with no extra weight. That's my biggest concern, there seems to be a trend in the wrong direction with our M cars.

Plan for more weight and probably 4 inches longer and a wider car too. I am sure it will be a better performing car than the f87 but will it be more playful? Will it be more fun?

[W///]

Originally Posted by akkando

This thing is going to cost an arm and a leg.

Not sure I would pay extra for the CF roof at this point. Harder to fix if something happens to it. No paintless dent guy fix. I have seen some CF roofs have peeling clear coat or yellowing. If it's a long term keeper... and it probably will be since likely last incline 6 with 6 speed, maybe you don't want to be dealing with a peeling CF roof in 10-15 years? I guess you could always take the easy way out and wrap it black at that point.

Originally Posted by akkando

Plan for more weight and probably 4 inches longer and a wider car too. I am sure it will be a better performing car than the f87 but will it be more playful? Will it be more fun?

Completely depends how you take care of the roof. Mine is 13 years old and not one problem with it. No different than if you leave a car sitting outside for 10-15 years with 0 protection, it'd need a repaint too.

I see absolutely no reason why everyone thinks this thing will cost an arm and a leg. If Individual is offered (hallelujah), and along with optional extras, that doesn't affect the base price. There's still absolutely nothing wrong with ordering an M2 with minimal options. I'd be ecstatic happy with a base (ie manual) M2, with Individual paint and heated steering wheel + seats. Done.

I wouldn't bet against this car being more fun than F87, although I have no proof. You may trade size for more accurate/livelier steering. We'll see!