Why can’t we locate the sub?

[M_Six]

I'm not sold on the crushed soda can analogy for the sub. Doesn't really fit. Metal bends and warps. But that sub is carbon fiber. 4"-5" thick, I read. Carbon fiber shatters like glass. So if that sub suffered a pressure leak, it may have shattered into a million pieces or just broke into a few big pieces like a thick bottle. If something like the front window blew inside, it may have just instantly filled with water and not deformed at all. Sadly, the end result for the passengers is the same no matter how the hull broke.

I think if that CEO hadn't been on board, he'd be facing some serious jail time. Although apparently there was no hiding of that fact that the passengers would be risking death in several different ways. That's not the kind of paperwork you just skim over and sign.

I also read that the hatch was bolted shut from the outside. Not sure if it had a way to vent air from the outside, but if not, they could be bobbing on the surface and still run out of air.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by nerdogray

If banging was heard, why can't they "answer back?" Surely they can generate a loud enough noise that will propagate all directions to hopefully trigger another round so they can zero in? It would also provide significant trauma relief to know someone is looking if it's heard.

In air sound travels at about 340 m/sec underwater it travels at about 1500m/sec. That makes locating it more challenging based on direction.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by Llarry

Sooner or later, the same thing will happen with space tourism. NO ROOM FOR ERROR!

Space tourism at least from USA launch sites is pretty strictly regulated by the FAA. Anyone booking a space tourist flight with SpaceX also had the benefit of NASA oversight in the design/certification/operation of Crew Dragon. Boeing's Starliner is still tied up in the certification process after failing a few un-crewed flight tests.....

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M_Six

I'm not sold on the crushed soda can analogy for the sub. Doesn't really fit. Metal bends and warps. But that sub is carbon fiber. 4"-5" thick, I read. Carbon fiber shatters like glass. So if that sub suffered a pressure leak, it may have shattered into a million pieces or just broke into a few big pieces like a thick bottle. If something like the front window blew inside, it may have just instantly filled with water and not deformed at all. Sadly, the end result for the passengers is the same no matter how the hull broke.

I think if that CEO hadn't been on board, he'd be facing some serious jail time. Although apparently there was no hiding of that fact that the passengers would be risking death in several different ways. That's not the kind of paperwork you just skim over and sign.

I also read that the hatch was bolted shut from the outside. Not sure if it had a way to vent air from the outside, but if not, they could be bobbing on the surface and still run out of air.

Also take into consideration that the Titan submersible was supposedly not designed to process a pressure of ± 375atm for days on end, but only for a couple of hours (descent to Titanic - exploration - ascent to the surface).

If the Titan vessel is stuck at the Titanic seabed as we speak, since a couple of days, then that vessel has been permanently exposed to that crushing ± 375atm pressure down there.

"See How Crushing Pressures Increase in the Ocean’s Depths
If the missing Titan submersible were near the Titanic, it would experience pressure higher than that of a great white shark bite
By Sophie Bushwick on June 21, 2023
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...oceans-depths/
Search-and-rescue efforts continue for the Titan submersible, an underwater craft that went missing on Sunday with five people onboard during a dive to the shipwrecked remains of the Titanic. The submersible does not seem to be at the water’s surface, because attempts to locate the craft from the air have searched 10,000 square miles of ocean without a glimpse. Sonar buoys did, however, detect underwater banging noises within the search region. Remotely operated diving vehicles have been targeting the location of those sounds.
If the Titan has become stranded at lower depths, one of the greatest dangers it faces is increasing water pressure as the ocean gets deeper. Everything on Earth’s surface experiences some pressure from the weight of the air above us. That’s why the pressure at sea level is often characterized as one atmosphere, a unit equivalent to almost 15 pounds per square inch (psi). Start descending into the ocean, and the air’s weight is joined by that of the water. For every 33 feet (10 meters) of saltwater depth, pressure increases by another atmosphere.
Scientists have divided the ocean’s depths into various zones, and the light and pressure in each one determines what kind of life can survive there. For instance, a variety of plants and animals thrive in the epipelagic, or sunlight, zone—the top layer of water, where light is strong and pressure is relatively low. But sunlight typically only penetrates water to a depth of 656 feet, where the water pressure is about 21 atmospheres, or roughly equivalent to two adult humans balancing on a one-square-inch spot.
To reach the remains of the Titanic, a vessel must go much lower than that. The wreck sits in the dark bathypelagic, or midnight, zone, at a spot 12,400 feet below the ocean’s surface. The pressure around the famous sunken ship is about 375 atmospheres. That means every square inch of an object’s surface experiences the equivalent of 5,500 pounds of force. Such an amount is greater than the bite pressure exerted by some of the strongest jaws in the animal kingdom: Crocodile bites have been measured at up to 3,700 psi. And one computer modeling study has estimated that a relatively large great white shark could sink its teeth into prey with a force of almost 4,000 psi.
For submersibles to survive the equivalent of being crushed in a great white shark’s jaws, they must be built of strong materials and have a shape that will withstand the water pressing in on all sides. To cope with the latter, many of these vehicles are spherical; the missing Titan is cylindrical. On top of that, a deep-sea submersibles require an oxygen supply for their passengers, as well as carbon dioxide scrubbers to prevent those passengers from suffocating in their own exhaled breath, a heating system to withstand the cold at depths sunlight never reaches, and sensing and navigation systems to guide the vessels as they descend, locate a target such as the shipwreck of the Titanic—and return to the surface."

[JP10]

I’d be more shocked if they could find it to be honest. This really shouldn’t come as a surprise.

[Watching The World Burn]

If they are still alive, all of them are probably doing some pretty serious reflecting on their lives and people they've impacted positively or negatively. I do wonder if they got saved, would they (especially the super wealthy among them) try to do a lot more good with what they have for others or would they stay much the same as they are (for better or worse) when they went into the sub. My thought is the former.

End of the day, this was risky and they knew it. Sucks, but that is what it is. Not certain I agree with the amount of expense being put forth to find this needle in a haystack, especially since that expense will be borne by taxpayers who probably aren't too aggrieved either way.

[RigPig11]

I work with Subsea ROVs and Hydro Acoustic Beacons everyday for my job.

So we launch unmanned ROVs all the time. These ROVs have beacons on them that communicate with a Transceiver Pole that is located on the bottom of my ships hull. The beacons and transceiver head that we use is rated for 5K meters. I have never had a job that had me testing that to its limits but they are rather reliable. See attached linked for what should have been on that sub.

https://www.sonardyne.com/products/w...ioning-beacon/

They should have had 2 of these on the sub for redundancy if safety was on their mind and with human lives on the line I would have hoped they did.

The ship that the sub was brought out on probably had what's called a HiPAP extending below their hull that would communicate with the sub so they could see where it is at on their Dynamic Positioning screens or Survey Screens. See link below..

https://www.kongsberg.com/maritime/p.../hipap-models/

I have not been following the news because I work 12hr night shift but I use these systems everyday. I hear this guy liked to cut corners in safety. Would not be surprised if they are dead and have been dead from the beginning. Usually currents arent strong at those depths and depending on how heavy that thing was it should be very close to where they are at if they only lost communications 15 minutes from depth. That is unless of course it was crushed to the size of a trashcan and the rescuers no longer know what they are actually looking for.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by RigPig11

I hear this guy liked to cut corners in safety.

Read below - Sounds like cutting more than only corners. Rather a modern-day tale of Icarus and hubris.

The question is to what extent wealthy tourists (flatteringly labeled "mission specialists") were (made) aware of several red flags.





(source: CNN - June 22, 2023 - https://edition.cnn.com/americas/liv...-23/index.html)

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Read below - Sounds like cutting more than only corners. Rather a modern-day tale of Icarus and hubris.

The question is to what extent wealthy tourists (flatteringly labeled "mission specialists") were (made) aware of several red flags.

Attachment 3210838

Attachment 3210839

(source: CNN - June 22, 2023 - https://edition.cnn.com/americas/liv...-23/index.html)

Some of Rush's comments would have me calling the men in white coats for him.

[fraschusa]

All the hype aside, and at least I hope they find them, even though I have little hope they will be alive.... it still begs the question, specifically in this forum... who would not say yes if a trip to the Titanic or into Space would be offered to you (let say free or at a cost you would accept), ok, think SpaceEx or maybe a bit more reputable company than OceanGate..... for me, Hell YES, I am in! (let's hope thy find them)

[Lady Jane]

Have you ever noticed that every time the experts say don't do something and the bean counters and desk jockeys override them, something bad happens?

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

Have you ever noticed that every time the experts say don't do something and the bean counters and desk jockeys override them, something bad happens?

That's sadly how capitalism works... think Boeing Max disaster... all done to move product and get a product as quick to market as possible to raise stock price...

the CEO here seems to have been a salesman over everything...

The general modern company approach is... as long as its good enough and will sell... it's fine.

[floridaorange]

[bagekko]

Trip to the titanic in a sub, no, why, who cares.

Trip to space which no tourist has actually done yet, meh only if it was to a place to do something, explore and walk on the moon, mars, or visit Lunar Park.

All these rich idiots only do these things to brag to their friends.

Originally Posted by fraschusa

who would not say yes if a trip to the Titanic or into Space would be offered to you (let say free or at a cost you would accept), ok, think SpaceEx or maybe a bit more reputable company than OceanGate

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by bagekko

Trip to space which no tourist has actually done yet,
All these rich idiots only do these things to brag to their friends.

I believe that two rich Russians, male and female, paid millions to go to the Space Station if I remember. I stand to be corrected.

[bagekko]

Perhaps, my reference was to the blue origin, virgin, space x tourist rides which don't actually go to outer space.

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

I believe that two rich Russians, male and female, paid millions to go to the Space Station if I remember. I stand to be corrected. Attachment 3210983

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by Tyga11

Our technology is so advanced and we can’t locate a sub on our own planet?

Very likely imploded and the sub along with all of its contents are in a million pieces spread across the ocean floor or have compacted to the size of a thimble.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

That malaysian plane or whatever it was. Did they ever even find it?

MH370, and no it is still missing.

[DocL]

Besides he obvious about this sub, how about not having water, food, or a big enough space to store urine and shit for five days. The smell alone would have killed me.

[cmyx6go]

https://nypost.com/2023/06/21/missin...-live-updates/

A remotely operated vehicle discovered a debris field while searching the site of the Titanic's wreckage for the missing OceanGate submersible, the US Coast Guard said.

The update was shared in a tweet Thursday by the First Coast Guard District, which wrote, "A debris field was discovered within the search area by an ROV near the Titanic."

"Experts within the unified command are evaluating the information," the Coast Guard added.

[cmyx6go]

I know it's premature but if the debris field is the missing sub, I can't imagine how they died. I hope it was fast, unlike suffocating to death.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

I know it's premature but if the debris field is the missing sub, I can't imagine how they died. I hope it was fast, unlike suffocating to death.

Well I would assume if there's debri then the thing imploded. If that's the case, based on my vast knowledge of movie implosions... that would be pretty instant. I mean if it's crushing metal and what not in an instant.

Then the question would be did the thing implode right when they went down or has it been stuck down there for a long time for some reason and then imploded. Obviously the first would be better since you probably never saw it coming.

What I found interesting is that the CEO was down there. So he must have been a true believer in his own bs given the fact he obviously knew about all the issues and corner cutting that was being done but still went down there. I'm not so sure his passengers would have done the same if they knew what we all know now.