Concerns about rear wheel drive and fishtailing in my ATS-V

[kingikra]

Hi,

I know it is a BMW forum and I own a 2016 ATS-V (I might have been chosen M3 if price were similar as in the US) but my question will be about strong rear wheel drive vehicles and fishtailing.
Got my V two months ago. Took me 19 days to complete break in period.
During break in period I felt something strange but this is my first rear wheel drive car so I thought it is OK.
After completing my break in period, whenever I press hard on the throttle with TC on in speeds that are lower than 50 MPH (both hands holds the steering wheel strait) the car's tail go to one side and the front goes to the other side (diagonal shape). I can steer it back but is that normal?

Thanks

[Celestion]

Originally Posted by kingikra

Hi,

I know it is a BMW forum and I own a 2016 ATS-V (I might have been chosen M3 if price were similar as in the US) but my question will be about strong rear wheel drive vehicles and fishtailing.
Got my V two months ago. Took me 19 days to complete break in period.
During break in period I felt something strange but this is my first rear wheel drive car so I thought it is OK.
After completing my break in period, whenever I press hard on the throttle with TC on in speeds that are lower than 50 MPH (both hands holds the steering wheel strait) the car's tail go to one side and the front goes to the other side (diagonal shape). I can steer it back but is that normal?

Thanks

Yes. That is called oversteer. You will wreck if you aren't familiar with advanced car control techniques. Enjoy it safely.

[mdemon]

#boostproblems

Very common in high torque cars to bring out rear on a hard acceleration. Are you sure, you're TC is completely on. In a M3, the TC makes sure it doesn't looses its symmetry as well.

On the other hand, I had no clue Cadillac had break in period. when I bought escalade a year ago, the guy told me the car is full force ready at 6 miles on showroom. I blew the engine at 4200 miles. That's my story for 440hp truck lol

[coolmex200]

Originally Posted by kingikra

Hi,

I know it is a BMW forum and I own a 2016 ATS-V (I might have been chosen M3 if price were similar as in the US) but my question will be about strong rear wheel drive vehicles and fishtailing.
Got my V two months ago. Took me 19 days to complete break in period.
During break in period I felt something strange but this is my first rear wheel drive car so I thought it is OK.
After completing my break in period, whenever I press hard on the throttle with TC on in speeds that are lower than 50 MPH (both hands holds the steering wheel strait) the car's tail go to one side and the front goes to the other side (diagonal shape). I can steer it back but is that normal?

Thanks

I just had a Dude driving a CTS pass me on the autobahn....he was in front of me in the city and his wheels would spin and loose his tail every time he got going. Meanwhile, I was heading straight...I finally passed him because I was tired of his debris and tire smoking smell....we both gunned it coming out of the tunnel and once again he was all over the place. I can turn MDM on and still not loose my tail compared to him. Maybe is the programming and far superior M-differential? I do miss the instant power of a NA V8....

[///F80M3]

Originally Posted by coolmex200

I just had a Dude driving a CTS pass me on the autobahn....he was in front of me in the city and his wheels would spin and loose his tail every time he got going. Meanwhile, I was heading straight...I finally passed him because I was tired of his debris and tire smoking smell....we both gunned it coming out of the tunnel and once again he was all over the place. I can turn MDM on and still not loose my tail compared to him. Maybe is the programming and far superior M-differential? I do miss the instant power of a NA V8....

His tires might be done. My tires are done also so I spin everywhere now. Can't accelerate without spinning.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by coolmex200

I just had a Dude driving a CTS pass me on the autobahn....he was in front of me in the city and his wheels would spin and loose his tail every time he got going. Meanwhile, I was heading straight...I finally passed him because I was tired of his debris and tire smoking smell....we both gunned it coming out of the tunnel and once again he was all over the place. I can turn MDM on and still not loose my tail compared to him. Maybe is the programming and far superior M-differential? I do miss the instant power of a NA V8....

GM's traction/stability control systems are way more advanced than BMW and far superior .

On the M (even in MDM) it kills all fun before it starts. GM's system allows more play and and uses advanced parameters.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

GM's traction/stability control systems are way more advanced than BMW and far superior .

On the M (even in MDM) it kills all fun before it starts. GM's system allows more play and and uses advanced parameters.

I assume you're basing these conclusions of the domestic MDM mode we have here in the US? I ask only because I may have my car coded this weekend and Euro MDM is one of things I am looking forward to.

[mdemon]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

GM's traction/stability control systems are way more advanced than BMW and far superior .

On the M (even in MDM) it kills all fun before it starts. GM's system allows more play and and uses advanced parameters.

It used to be. Ever since the 58.3 update, the MDM is day and night in US cars.

Smokey burnout show, full tire scream in 2nd gear and no interruption to full launch are few highlights

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

I assume you're basing these conclusions of the domestic MDM mode we have here in the US? I ask only because I may have my car coded this weekend and Euro MDM is one of things I am looking forward to.

Yes sir. I too, am looking to get euro MDM soon.

[kingikra]

Originally Posted by Celestion

Yes. That is called oversteer. You will wreck if you aren't familiar with advanced car control techniques. Enjoy it safely.

Oversteer is great when you turn. Not when you try to go strait when TC is on

[kingikra]

Originally Posted by mdemon

#boostproblems

Very common in high torque cars to bring out rear on a hard acceleration. Are you sure, you're TC is completely on. In a M3, the TC makes sure it doesn't looses its symmetry as well.

100% sure

[kingikra]

Originally Posted by ///F80M3

His tires might be done. My tires are done also so I spin everywhere now. Can't accelerate without spinning.

I don't care about spinning tires. I only care about tail going nuts.

[coolmex200]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

GM's traction/stability control systems are way more advanced than BMW and far superior .

On the M (even in MDM) it kills all fun before it starts. GM's system allows more play and and uses advanced parameters.

I'm not sure how is fishtailing as you try to accelerate is fun and far superior...:

[TxFeatFan]

Have you checked the tire pressure on your front tires?

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by coolmex200

I'm not sure how is fishtailing as you try to accelerate is fun and far superior...:

Maximum traction is achieved with very slight slippage of tires.

GM's system is very good at getting the max performance while keeping you safe at the same time.

As opposed to BMW's which says , oh you're approaching 90% , I'm going to kill everything now.

[mdemon]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Maximum traction is achieved with very slight slippage of tires.

GM's system is very good at getting the max performance while keeping you safe at the same time.

Doesn't sound safe at all with his TC full on.

[OutlawX3M]

Originally Posted by kingikra

Hi,
During break in period I felt something strange but this is my first rear wheel drive car so I thought it is OK.
After completing my break in period, whenever I press hard on the throttle with TC on in speeds that are lower than 50 MPH (both hands holds the steering wheel straight) the car's tail go to one side and the front goes to the other side (diagonal shape). I can steer it back but is that normal?
Thanks

So you mash the throttle and the rear end "goes to one side" -- without changing the steering input your front tires will be pointing in the same direction as the chassis (as you said, straight). As the rear tires shift to one side and the front tires still pointing "straight", you're direction will change.

As stated earlier, you have to "turn" the steering wheel to maintain the desired direction. What you're feeling is "torque steer" which is usually talked about in front-wheel drive but also applies to rear wheel drive vehicles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_steering

"Rear-wheel-drive vehicles still are affected by torque steer in the sense that any of the above situations will still apply a steering moment to the car (though from the rear wheels instead of the front). However, the torque-steer effect at the rear wheels will not send any torque response back through the steering column, so the driver will not have to fight the steering wheel."

In other words, the movement of the rear wheels has the same effect as input at the steering wheel (i.e., change of direction) even though you haven't turned the wheel. To maintain the desired direction of the vehicle, you have to use the steering wheel, usually in a counter-rotation (counter-steer).

It's just vehicle dynamics. I'm surprised you get that much slippage with TC on but that's just me.

[bb1857]

yes oversteer for sure....heres another way to look at it that we always joke about in the racing world.

Oversteer(back of car slides out) - means you will hit the wall or guardrail with the back of the car

Understeer(front of car slides) - means you will hit the wall or guardrail with the front of the car.

Neutral is ideal obviously but high horsepower rear wheel drive cars can easily be instigated into oversteer and if not used to it you may have a mess on your hands in more than one place if you know what i mean!!

[ghost34]

Originally Posted by kingikra

Hi,

I know it is a BMW forum and I own a 2016 ATS-V (I might have been chosen M3 if price were similar as in the US) but my question will be about strong rear wheel drive vehicles and fishtailing.
Got my V two months ago. Took me 19 days to complete break in period.
During break in period I felt something strange but this is my first rear wheel drive car so I thought it is OK.
After completing my break in period, whenever I press hard on the throttle with TC on in speeds that are lower than 50 MPH (both hands holds the steering wheel strait) the car's tail go to one side and the front goes to the other side (diagonal shape). I can steer it back but is that normal?

Thanks

If the ass didn't kick out on my rwd car, id return it

[Ian1973]

Scary you own nearly a 500hp car and don't know that is normal.

[bmrwrld]

Very Important you warm up your tires first before you mash the peddle to the metal. The M4 does not like cold tires.

[Vigilante375]

Ease into the gas my friend. Don't jab it.