Autonomous cars: Which drivers are most ready for this?

[300hp]

http://www.motortrend.com/news/surve...tonomous-cars/

Well Mercedes and Infiniti take the top spot on this one. No surprises there right.

The good news here is we are at the bottom of this list, right next to Porshe drivers. This is one list I am proud to be right at the bottom of

[tturedraider]

I hate it, hate it, hate it!!

[nicknaz]

Guess I'm the outlier but I would be ok with an autonomous car for commuting. That's mind numbing and I'm happy to outsource it to a computer.

For fun driving, i'd keep an analog/non autonomous car of some sort around

[Dan203]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Guess I'm the outlier but I would be ok with an autonomous car for commuting. That's mind numbing and I'm happy to outsource it to a computer.

For fun driving, i'd keep an analog/non autonomous car of some sort around

I agree. For long, mind numbing, drives I'd be happy to pass off the driving to a computer. I already sort of do with the adaptive cruise control. I want to be in control for the fun parts.

Would also be nice to be able to go out to a bar without worrying about having a DD or staying under the limit. Just have fun and the car will drive you home. (the technologies not there yet, I know)

[RoundelM3]

The technology required for fully-automated cars requires that they ALL be fully-automated and take the human element completely out of it. That, or there will need to be communication capability between all cars and the road infrastructure. Without that, there will be chaos and worse wrecks than there are now. Take the situation where you have a traffic light and a cop or crossing guard directing traffic, maybe holding up a stop sign. The stoplight is green, but the cop/guard is directing traffic and there are kids crossing the street. The autonomous software would be required to have logic that could recognize the presence of the cop/guard and his direction signaling with his hands and/or the presence of pedestrians in the street. Then you have the guy closest to the intersection in a non-autonomous car texting and slamming on his brakes and swerving into your lane at the last second. Good luck to the coder that gets THAT assignment!

[Dan203]

Originally Posted by roundel335

The technology required for fully-automated cars requires that they ALL be fully-automated and take the human element completely out of it. That, or there will need to be communication capability between all cars and the road infrastructure. Without that, there will be chaos and worse wrecks than there are now. Take the situation where you have a traffic light and a cop or crossing guard directing traffic, maybe holding up a stop sign. The stoplight is green, but the cop/guard is directing traffic and there are kids crossing the street. The autonomous software would be required to have logic that could recognize the presence of the cop/guard and his direction signaling with his hands and/or the presence of pedestrians in the street. Then you have the guy closest to the intersection in a non-autonomous car texting and slamming on his brakes and swerving into your lane at the last second. Good luck to the coder that gets THAT assignment!

The Google car can handle most of this already. They've been working on it for about 15 years now. It can handle most common road situations. Although it uses a very expensive lidar system to read everything around it, so it's got way more information then the sonar/camera systems used in most systems actually on the road. (like the one in Tesla)

[RoundelM3]

Originally Posted by Dan203

The Google car can handle most of this already. They've been working on it for about 15 years now. It can handle most common road situations. Although it uses a very expensive lidar system to read everything around it, so it's got way more information then the sonar/camera systems used in most systems actually on the road. (like the one in Tesla)

Nonetheless, there are situations where the "guidance system" isn't going to be able to cope with the unpredictability of human drivers. As I said before, unless there's communication between all vehicles and the roadway infrastructure, there are going to be more accidents than there are now. That, and there will have to be two "systems" in each vehicle for redundancy - although if power fails, it will require human intervention. Reaction time to that power failure is going to have to be VERY fast, though, particularly in the case of an impending collision. No artificial intelligence system to date is capable of coping with the unpredictability of a human driver who may be having a medical emergency or fleeing from police, or any of hundreds of other possibilities. For that matter, most humans can't cope with that unpredictability either.

And as far as "lidar" being able to recognize and determine that the traffic cop takes precedence over a traffic light and being able to understand his hand signals...I'll believe that when I see it. There are just too many variables to cope with, including weather, road conditions, vehicle condition, debris (like nails or sharp objects), animals who suddenly bound across the roadway, falling tree limbs or rocks, and other factors that differ from the mundane urban environment that these vehicles will work best in.

[Dan203]

Object avoidance is the primary feature of any autonomous vehicle. So the one thing it does very well, better then any human, is prevent you from hitting things. (i.e. people, animals, falling trees, etc...) It's reaction time is a few milliseconds, whereas the average human reaction time to a sudden even that requires braking, if they're even paying attention, is about 1.5 seconds.

You're right tough that certain things screw them up. They don't do well in heavy rain/snow that obscures the lines in the road. (then again neither do people) They also don't do great when there is road construction, accidents or a human directing traffic. That's why current state laws require a human to be behind the wheel and capable of taking control to get a permit to drive an autonomous car. Without some sort of infrastructure change the visual impairment of the lines in the road is a tricky one to solve. However simply changing the paint to have some sort of magnetic or em reflective properties would fix that. Unique situations like road construction or an accident on the road ahead of you is something that will be worked out eventually with ever improving AI. Anything the car can "see" it will eventually be able to deal with.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Dan203

They don't do well in heavy rain/snow that obscures the lines in the road. (then again neither do people) They also don't do great when there is road construction, accidents or a human directing traffic. That's why current state laws require a human to be behind the wheel and capable of taking control to get a permit to drive an autonomous car.

Think about your last month behind the wheel of the car.

Where have you driven that you didn't have construction, accidents, human directing a traffic, humans messing up or no variable weather conditions? It's never, rarely ever all ideal when it comes to traffic. Also, think software, any software, no mater what industry, it's never, ever 99.99% bug free. What about security of these various software packages ?

I mean, this is just forum discussion on the implementation issues they will be facing before autonomous cars are reality. The other issues that will be in the way are changing laws, dealing with pedestrians, bicycles, motorcycles, insurance, snow, rain, ice... who is now responsible in case things go wrong, manufacturer, google maps, driver, IOS app, security app, insurance? What about industry standards (my detection system uses X, your uses Y, which one costs less and which one is better for insurance, and are the compatible with each other?). Would everyone be banned from driving altogether (again what about motorcycles in that case?)

And lastly, if it's not absolutely fully autonomous what's the point ? Do you want to sit and do nothing for hours at the time, but be forced to pay attention anyway to avoid liability (and/or death), or do you want to drive, pay attention and do your best to keep everyone safe ?

I don't claim to have a solution for any of these problems. I also personally don't feel I need or want autonomous car on daily basis (other than as someone mentioned not having to worry about having two or more drinks every now and then wouldn't be the worst thing). I just feel that final solution isn't (anywhere) as close as manufacturers are trying to make us believe. Yes, some of the great technology is there, but still long way to go, and even more work to be done on changing the laws, regulating the industry, several industries in fact.

[Dan203]

It's all very early right now. Even the Google car, which is very advanced and been in development for over a decade, has some situations it can't handle. But we'll never get there if companies like this don't try. Plus some of the advancements made in their early prototypes have made their way down into our cars. Features like active cruise control and accident avoidance were born from these autonomous car projects. We're probably decades away from a truly autonomous car, but the technology that's coming out of these projects is making the cars we drive better and safer.

[F32Fleet]

Stoners

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

I also personally don't feel I need or want autonomous car on daily basis (other than as someone mentioned not having to worry about having two or more drinks every now and then wouldn't be the worst thing). .

What's your daily commute like? I have ~20 minutes of commute in stop and go staffing and sometimes have to take on 1-1.5hr commuting to go to a different work location.

It would be AMAZING if I could use that time for napping or catching up on work etc.

Over and above the commuting benefits, the dream scenario for me would be if I could have a fully autonomous tow vehicle. Load up my fun car (maybe my F80 will be considered a historic vehicle at this time? haha) at home at 4:30am, program in the location of the nearest track, take a nap and show up at the HPDE ready to roll

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

What's your daily commute like? I have ~20 minutes of commute in stop and go staffing and sometimes have to take on 1-1.5hr commuting to go to a different work location.

It would be AMAZING if I could use that time for napping or catching up on work etc.

My commute is apx. 20 minutes, mix of stop and go and highway traffic, or few alternative ways, a bit of stop and go and two way traffic roads with 80km/hr limit, mostly free flowing.

I understand what you're getting at. Ask yourself though, how much work would you really do, how much would you catch up on sleep in 20 min, both are unrealistic to give you any "real world" results. Personally, I use this time for myself, to enjoy the car, the road, have my coffee, listen to the music, these are 20 min. in the day when I'm not a dad/employee/husband.... I mean, sure I'll make the calls I have to, but you get the idea. That's why I think it's worth having a nice car and enjoy it daily. For now, I cannot justify having a "fun weekend car" as I don't go to the track and my lifestyle just doesn't allow for random "fun drives". Yeah, I take the longer way to get places because I enjoy driving, but have no time for "fun car".

Now, autonomous car seems to be the future, without vision for future, lots of tech wouldn't be available today. It's not something that's needed (or easily achieved) in my opinion, but that's matter of personal opinion - I'm not an expert on the subject.

What I was debating is difficulty to implement "perfect implementation" for every situation, and many laws that will need to be changed. Even if perfect solution was ready today, insurance, security, hardware and software industry will need to be closely regulated. Freedom of choice (to drive) might become an issue too at some point in the future. Again, I don't think general availability isn't anywhere as close as these companies are making us believe.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Guess I'm the outlier but I would be ok with an autonomous car for commuting. That's mind numbing and I'm happy to outsource it to a computer.

For fun driving, i'd keep an analog/non autonomous car of some sort around

What makes you think they will let you drive it on public roads?

[insanecoder]

Last thing I want is to be on a joyride with the possibility of a head-on collision with an "autonomous" driver.

[Dan203]

You're much more likely to hit head on with a person trying to text or who had too much o drink.

[insanecoder]

Yea thats not much fun neither.. bottom line is people should pay attention whilst driving.. if they dont want to drive, take the train or the bus. Putting your life in the hands of software is not something I'm comfortable doing.. worse that other peoples autonomous driving ends up costing one of my loved one's lives.. and as these programs get rolled out the probabilities will only increase

[COKen]

Wonder how many conversations like this went on when they removed operators from elevators.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by COKen

Wonder how many conversations like this went on when they removed operators from elevators.

I get your logic, but not at all the same thing.

[Beek]

The day the Insurance companies think autonomous cars are safer than humans they will price human drivers out of the equation. I hope that day is twenty or more years off but my advice is to take your BMW out and find some twisty's ... while you still can.

[tuco44]

The coming of autonomous cars is the only reason I am happy to be 72, and not 22. That said, for many ppl the coming of this technology is a good thing. No one on these forums will like it, but we are the minority.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

I understand what you're getting at. Ask yourself though, how much work would you really do, how much would you catch up on sleep in 20 min, both are unrealistic to give you any "real world" results. Personally, I use this time for myself, to enjoy the car, the road, have my coffee, listen to the music, these are 20 min. in the day when I'm not a dad/employee/husband.... I mean, sure I'll make the calls I have to, but you get the idea. That's why I think it's worth having a nice car and enjoy it daily. For now, I cannot justify having a "fun weekend car" as I don't go to the track and my lifestyle just doesn't allow for random "fun drives". Yeah, I take the longer way to get places because I enjoy driving, but have no time for "fun car".

This AM I used the 20 minutes to check in with my "offshore delivery center" colleagues. Using 2016 tech, I was limited to bluetooth audio. It would have been cool to "facetime" and use screen sharing software at the same time

This PM I used the 20 minutes to catch up with a colleague who had been on vacation. This was simpler because we were riding in the same car, but using 2016 tech it was voice conversation while I drove. It would have been cool to look at photos and have a drink at the same time

Well, anyway, I am in the line for a Tesla 3, hopefully will be closer to autonomous when it actually comes out.