[Reedomn]

DTC.....DCT.....DTC

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by G8rGrl

It's a tech review. The embargo is on "driving impressions". MotoMan usually does tech first then a few days later releases the driving impressions.

His tech review has a good discussion of the M2 engine, which has been frequently "debated" in this forum.

No it doesn't. It doesn't address anything about the engine that's actually under debate. he only repeats what we already know.

If he talked to the engineers, WTH didn't he, or anyone else, find out what the story is with the damn turbo on this thing.

It's the most blatantly obvious question that no one is asking for some odd reason.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by swagon

And I disagree with him that the N55T is a single turbo version of the S55 engine.

Not saying it is, but what makes you disagree with that?

if this thing winds up using the same, or very similar block to the S55, wouldn't it be more accurate to call it a single-turbo version of an S55, vs. a version of an N55, which it doesn't share even a block (or rotating assembly) with?

[Artemis]

Not even one single M2 with 6MT offered to the journalists during the Laguna Seca sessions.

[flyaway]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Not even one single M2 with 6MT offered to the journalists during the Laguna Seca sessions.

not too far in the future this might not be a joke Curious if the M2 will be the last manual M...

[G8rGrl]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

No it doesn't. It doesn't address anything about the engine that's actually under debate. he only repeats what we already know.

If he talked to the engineers, WTH didn't he, or anyone else, find out what the story is with the damn turbo on this thing.

It's the most blatantly obvious question that no one is asking for some odd reason.

Ok. That's your opinion. I recall as recently as yesterday someone mentioning it was "just an N55" engine and "not M enough." So he may repeat what you already know, but not necessarily what others know. I'm not going to search for the post from yesterday because it isn't important to me, but I'm sure you get the point.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Kantalias

Funny he goes into all the detail on the exhaust manifold that allows for a twin scroll turbo but never actually says why a twin scroll turbo is advantageous.

I hope the weight figure is correct; even if DCT is 50 lbs heavier that's still FTW!

Because it's not....

When BMW gets serious about making power they use two turbos.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by G8rGrl

Ok. That's your opinion. I recall as recently as yesterday someone mentioning it was "just an N55" engine and "not M enough." So he may repeat what you already know, but not necessarily what others know. I'm not going to search for the post from yesterday because it isn't important to me, but I'm sure you get the point.

My opinion?

The video didn't clear up anything, nor give any new information.

There will always be people ignorant of facts. I'm not sure how this video helps them any more than the hundreds of posts on here do. That was the point.

If you didn't know the info in the video, you simply didn't look for it beforehand.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by flyaway

[VIDEO]
not too far in the future this might not be a joke Curious if the M2 will be the last manual M...

Chris Harris (03:26-03:50): "And look at this thing I've got here ! Look at this lever ! What's this now: braking. Only to go manually. 4th. Blip the throttle myself . 3rd. Aah, I love it, I just love it. There is no beating three pedals and a stick. And for that alone this car [Cayman GT4] is an absolute triumph, I have to say. A triumph."

Weird choice of BMW not to bring an M2 6MT into the Laguna Seca arena. Maybe to avoid journalists discussing too hard to get behind the wheel ?

[chmura]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Because it's not....

When BMW gets serious about making power they use two turbos.

As I recall the Toyota Supra had twin turbos stock. People that want to make series power 600-1100 hp went to a big single turbo I believe. So you can still make serious power with a single turbo but most likely the power curve won't be linear across the rev range.

[zenmaster]

Full transcript (some corrections, and revelation highlighted):

0:00 Friends, today is an incredibly special day at the office
0:05 not only are we here with the BMW M2 we are here at Laguna Seca so while we work
0:12 on the full first drive review of this on that track lets you and I go through
0:18 a tech review and let's start with the place we always start the engine but
0:23 there's a helluva lot to cover here so let's get right into it
0:32 now what are these people that's fortunate to love what they do I have
0:40 now met a bunch of the engineers at BMW and let's just say they love what they
0:46 do and the proof is the changes that went in to make this engine so BMW
0:52 fanboys obviously know the M3 M4 the S55 engine so it starts with the same
0:58 block as three liter inline six but this one's a single turbo but this one is
1:03 it a twin-scroll now what does that mean is they have adjustable impellers that
1:08 kind of stuff no actually what it is is the exhaust manifold ago and they take
1:12 that from the S55 which basically breaks up the exhaust gases into two
1:19 banks but then it channels the air into the turbocharger in two separate
1:25 basically runners that go into the impeller very cool then there are other
1:31 bits that they have basically taken from the S55 engine so let's start from the
1:36 top
1:37 the intake is from the S55 the piston rings are from the S55 basically the
1:44 crankshaft bearings also from the S55 put aside all of that the coolest
1:50 part that comes from the S55 is the oil sump and the oil extractor and
1:56 basically there is a part in the oil sump that controls the lubrication of
2:02 the engine to basically take into account the additional lateral
2:06 acceleration that they know this car is going to go through with people like you
2:11 and me driving it so what does it all add up to its 365 horsepower that comes in at
2:19 6500 rpm and 343 pound-feet of torque which comes in a stupid low 1400 rpm
2:25 stays flat all the way up to 5560 now this one is interesting and very similar
2:32 to a car we just drove remember that Buick this has over boost so it goes all the way up
2:36 to 369 pound-feet of torque and also right from 1400 RPM
2:41 so effectively what you have here is a single turbo version of the S55 but
2:48 they've made a number of changes to make it really its own engine now let's put
2:53 aside all that in one of the big things that you have to it's not just
2:58 engineering more power out of cars like this it's how do you cool and
3:02 maintain that engine reliably that is down here now do you guys remember our
3:09 Porsche Boxster GTS episode and actually more recently our Porsche Spyder episode
3:14 that car they have some more power to them but really one of the big
3:18 differences in how they derive more power of those cars is they get more
3:21 cooling to the engine and they kinda did the same thing here so number one
3:26 you've got a big radiator obviously and that's really not much different than
3:29 other BMWs but then there's an intercooler here and then BMW has
3:35 separated out to cool the actual water in the car they're basically two coolers
3:40 here one here and one here then this car here the car we're got to drive Saturday there's not a
3:45 manual transmission all they had was the DTC here at this program so if you get
3:50 the DCT car there is a separate transmission causing the transmission
3:55 oil cooler is here which is separate from all these other bits so 1,2,3,4,5
4:02 different units in front to cool a combination of the engine and the
4:05 transmission now let's put aside all the bits at the front and let's focus on
4:10 some of the bits that affect driving dynamics now I can go over some of the
4:14 fancy bits like aluminum axles 19 inch wheels bigger brakes that are
4:19 still metallic dynamic mode adjustments all that kind of stuff let's put that all
4:24 aside because really the biggest thing that affects what this car is in terms
4:29 of balance and we'll talk about really what it means on the track and the full
4:33 first drive review episode is the wheelbase
4:36 and the weight and the weight here 3,295 pounds so that's great and all but
4:42 let's put that in context on M4 which is the coupe version and I still have a hard time
4:46 saying M3 to M4 but the coupe version of the M4 is 3,530 pounds so
4:55 this is 235 pounds lighter and it's a shorter wheelbase car now let's bring
5:01 some of these bits back into it in terms of aluminum axles some other light
5:05 weighting and that's when the car completely changes how it changes
5:09 sadly there's an embargo I can't tell you that right now but come back later
5:15 this week or actually early next week we're going to give you the full first
5:18 drive review of this car and one thing I do have to note again is the one we're
5:23 driving is a DCT sadly there was no six-speed manual on offer here at this
5:29 program but the car is on offer with a six-speed manual which i think we're
5:33 going to have to get that car down in California drive it in our little home
5:38 bit with the actual six-speed manual transmission anyway but I digress so
5:43 come back next week for the full first drive review on this track which is
5:49 starting to look like a Monterey with the fog coming in off the ocean here so
5:53 that means number one I gotta give the car back and number two a little leave
5:57 you with a question because this this is a very exciting car for me and I used to
6:02 be a BMW guy actually never told you to this I'm a Lotus guy now but back in the
6:07 day I had many BMWs one of them was an M BMW so my question to you is this
6:15 and M BMW fans out there let me know what BMW M-power BMW you have
6:23 what you do with it and what region of the world you live
6:26 let me know in the comments below or via our social media motoman and motoman both
6:31 motoman Facebook Twitter and Instagram and with that I want to leave
6:35 you with two things number one make sure you download are facing the mobile
6:39 application from iTunes or Google Play and number two this has been an
6:45 incredibly special David a very good day at the office and
6:49 maybe or maybe not there have been some virtual reality cameras attached to this
6:53 car going around the track perhaps you will find out at a later point until
6:58 then

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Chris Harris (03:26-03:50): "And look at this thing I've got here ! Look at this lever ! What's this now: braking. Only to go manually. 4th. Blip the throttle myself . 3rd. Aah, I love it, I just love it. There is no beating three pedals and a stick. And for that alone this car [Cayman GT4] is an absolute triumph, I have to say. A triumph."

Weird choice of BMW not to bring an M2 6MT into the Laguna Seca arena. Maybe to avoid journalists discussing too hard to get behind the wheel ?

Definitely one of my favorite episodes from him.

[Cope]

I really can't wait to see some journalists like Brian Cooley and Chris Harris get their hands on the M2. Is it Tuesday yet?

[G8rGrl]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

My opinion?

The video didn't clear up anything, nor give any new information.

There will always be people ignorant of facts. I'm not sure how this video helps them any more than the hundreds of posts on here do. That was the point.

If you didn't know the info in the video, you simply didn't look for it beforehand.

I think we are saying the same thing. It cleared it up for people who didn't search, or look, or read most of the posts here, the way you and I do.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by chmura

As I recall the Toyota Supra had twin turbos stock. People that want to make series power 600-1100 hp went to a big single turbo I believe. So you can still make serious power with a single turbo but most likely the power curve won't be linear across the rev range.

Correct. Which is why I said , when BMW...

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by swagon

He said that all the M2's at the track were DCT.

And I disagree with him that the N55T is a single turbo version of the S55 engine.

He said "So, effectively what you have is a single turbo version of the S55.."
He didn't say it was, he said "effectively"

fec·tive·ly
əˈfektəvlē/
adverb
adverb: effectively
in such a manner as to achieve a desired result.
"make sure that resources are used effectively"
actually but not officially or explicitly.
"they were effectively controlled by the people they were supposed to be investigating"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/effectively

So, it is not explicitly a single turbo S55, but it gives a desired result of one.

[dammitcubs]

he walks around way too much - this is why i couldn't watch his videos for long in the past

[///M2-PILOT]

He's Capt. Obvious, and not entirely accurate, but l'll waite until his drive review comes out

[chris719]

Chris Harris is one of the only auto journalists that is factually correct when it comes to details on a regular basis.

[dammitcubs]

I noticed something interesting.....

I found this link from autospies and looks like these BMW M2's are from the same batch of cars. But this one they drove wasn't DCT - It was MANUAL.

http://www.autospies.com/news/BMW-M2...-Launch-87597/

You can see the manual photo as you scroll down....PLOT THICKENS.

Also - DTN 27 was the same license plate I recorded when I was at laguna Seca. And this model might be the Manual model...So i don't know what Moto Man is talking about...maybe they just lied to him LOL

[sth519]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

If that's the case, then M4 is only 2kg heavier w/ EU unladen weight of 1,572kg.

Yes, at least for the German models since these are the numbers quoted by bmw.de
US numbers may vary – at the very least because of different standard equipment, like for example the electric seats that come standard in the US.

Also keep in mind that most M4s have lots of optional equipment (i.e. full leather seats, 19" wheels, the big iDrive system) that comes as standard on the M2 and is therefore included in the weight figures of the M2 but not the M4.

Still, the M2 is not really a featherweight.

Originally Posted by flyaway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nu6Brg9pf0
not too far in the future this might not be a joke Curious if the M2 will be the last manual M...

One of the reasons why I ordered a manual car.
BMW might keep the manual for another generation, but I don't have much hope past that. The A45 and RS3 are a good example that this shift (no pun intended) is already happening even down in the compact segment.

[///M2-PILOT]

Originally Posted by dammitcubs

I noticed something interesting.....

I found this link from autospies and looks like these BMW M2's are from the same batch of cars. But this one they drove wasn't DCT - It was MANUAL.

I noticed that too, maybe they gave the manuals to men who weren't wearing a sports coat with red sneakers.....