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      08-10-2013, 11:48 PM   #89
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^^ found the idiot....
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      08-10-2013, 11:49 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelthepsycho View Post
Lambo's AWD is pretty middle-of-the-pack. No review has ever praised it like the Evo X or GTR systems. Trying to cite different cars as examples of RWD's dominance is not looking at the fundamental question. Two cars, same weight/power with one being RWD, one being AWD and the AWD will win. They're only losing because they're heavier.You can't cheat physics.

You guys are not comparing the concept of AWD vs the concept of RWD. Merely using lap times of different cars with different weights / specs to prove that you're "right." Anybody can do that. If I put a Hayabusa motor into a go-kart with huge sticky tires, will I beat a Lambo?

I'm talking about two cars both 3,000 pounds, 1,500 horsepower. One has the pinnacle of AWD, where torque can be shifted to each individual wheel at will. Would you still bet on the RWD?

That's just one instance. And the early Porsche AWDs aren't even that trick. A heavier car beating the RWD on a TIGHT track. The advantages will be even more amplified on a big track where a properly set up AWD puts full power down 50 feet before a RWD. The fact that the GTR being so heavy and coming so close to other performance cars that are lighter and more powerful tells us so much. Yes, it loses right now. I'll admit that but the weight disadvantage is often overlooked.
Bold one: This is called using real world results.

Bold two: This has been covered before. You CAN'T have two identical cars that weigh the same and produce the same power and one of them be AWD. AWD will always be heavier and drain more HP from the engine.

If you're talking two different cars of the same weight and same power then the conversation is pointless because there are to many variables to conduct a real test. Aerodynamics, suspension, suspension geometry, weight distribution, power train loss, etc...

Facts are facts, despite them proving certain people right. Until someone produces an AWD car that tops the charts.... it is what it is.
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      08-11-2013, 06:34 AM   #91
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The next generation of hypercars will be awd. The Mclaren p1, Ferrari, and 918. Heck, even the new NSX will be AWD. They will all be electric hybrids though. Let's see what kind of results they'll bring. These new cars are about 1000 hp and 3000 pounds so they should benefit in terms of traction.
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      08-11-2013, 11:11 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothDoc View Post
The next generation of hypercars will be awd.
cool - still won't make then faster than RWD.....
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      08-12-2013, 11:55 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0bab0i View Post
The Venom isn't a production car yet, I believe they require at least 20 to have been built. ~5 have been built.

The SSC Tuatara(RWD) will probably be faster than both, but until that time the Veyron SS still holds the record.
What are you talking about? Are you making stuff up? 10 have been sold, and they have a MY2013 production run of 29 units (about the same as the Veyron SS run of 30 for 2013). The GT Venom is a production car and has held the fastest production car record for quite a while:
http://blog.gasbuddy.com/posts/Henne...4875-1888.aspx

The rule you're pulling out of your ass is similar to the FIA rules on determining what vehicles can participate in the FIA GT. That rule has ZERO bearing on whether the Venom GT can get a VIN, pass smog, and be registered as a class C vehicle in the U.S, you know... all the things that make a vehicle a production car in the eyes of the law, all of which the Venom GT has been able to do.

Also according to your made up definition of what a production vehicle is, the Veyron would not have been a "production" car when it was released since it only sold 12 in its first year of production, and Bugatti only sold 5 of the modified SS cars which could hit 268mph.

So please be accurate when you claim to be "stating facts", when in reality, you're not.
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Last edited by MediaArtist; 08-12-2013 at 12:22 PM..
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      08-12-2013, 12:11 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelthepsycho View Post
Lambo's AWD is pretty middle-of-the-pack. No review has ever praised it like the Evo X or GTR systems. Trying to cite different cars as examples of RWD's dominance is not looking at the fundamental question. Two cars, same weight/power with one being RWD, one being AWD and the AWD will win. They're only losing because they're heavier.You can't cheat physics.
I was going to comment on everything you stated, but after I read your last two sentences here, I laughed too hard to remember what I was going to say. The bold comment..., The AWD will win, and the RWD is only losing because they are heavier?

Or are you stating that AWD is always losing because of numerous reasons that have been stated over and over. In that case, you are right, you can't cheat physics, but you can work with physics and power the rear wheels and win races.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
So please be accurate when you claim to be "stating facts", when in reality, you're not.
So far it would seem anyone with the AWD is God mentality is miscomprehending what a "fact" is compared to an inaccurate "opinion".
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      08-12-2013, 12:30 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billup View Post
So far it would seem anyone with the AWD is God mentality is miscomprehending what a "fact" is compared to an inaccurate "opinion".
been that way for a decade dude.

it's the oldest and probably the stupidest argument for people who are clearly uneducated on the subject...

it kind of gets old, but it's one of those threads that you can't stop reading...

the AWD vs. RWD thing has been ridden hard for a looooong time - AS LONG AS MICHAELTHEPSYCHO's MOM's TITS ooooohhhhhh snap, bro son...
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      08-12-2013, 12:41 PM   #96
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I have to admit, I do love reading the AWD comments. Worth some good laughs through the day, which is great for killing the monotony of a Monday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litos
the AWD vs. RWD thing has been ridden hard for a looooong time - AS LONG AS MICHAELTHEPSYCHO's MOM's TITS ooooohhhhhh snap, bro son...
I think riding her tits is a tune we can all dance to. I'm sure she would at least accept the fact that RWD is better than RWD after a little convincing.
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      08-12-2013, 01:09 PM   #97
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So, it sounds like the best way to avoid the controversy is for all of us to buy FWD cars then.
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      08-12-2013, 01:11 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1fastdoc View Post
So, it sounds like the best way to avoid the controversy is for all of us to buy FWD cars then.
Drove a Ford Focus, and I honestly think it by far out handles an E90 328i.
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      08-12-2013, 01:13 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1fastdoc View Post
So, it sounds like the best way to avoid the controversy is for all of us to buy FWD cars then.
FWD is a clear winner, I just didn't want to be the first one to say it.
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      08-12-2013, 01:19 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1fastdoc View Post
So, it sounds like the best way to avoid the controversy is for all of us to buy FWD cars then.
HAHA !!!

that's where my "experience" in these stupid threads come from.

the ol SRT4 vs. EVO vs. STi thing...

gaaaawd, takes me back to 2003/2004.....
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      08-12-2013, 02:00 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
What are you talking about? Are you making stuff up? 10 have been sold, and they have a MY2013 production run of 29 units (about the same as the Veyron SS run of 30 for 2013). The GT Venom is a production car and has held the fastest production car record for quite a while:
http://blog.gasbuddy.com/posts/Henne...4875-1888.aspx

The rule you're pulling out of your ass is similar to the FIA rules on determining what vehicles can participate in the FIA GT. That rule has ZERO bearing on whether the Venom GT can get a VIN, pass smog, and be registered as a class C vehicle in the U.S, you know... all the things that make a vehicle a production car in the eyes of the law, all of which the Venom GT has been able to do.

Also according to your made up definition of what a production vehicle is, the Veyron would not have been a "production" car when it was released since it only sold 12 in its first year of production, and Bugatti only sold 5 of the modified SS cars which could hit 268mph.

So please be accurate when you claim to be "stating facts", when in reality, you're not.
I used Wikipedia for info, wasn't pulling rules out of my ass. It still lists the Veyron as fastest. And thats where I go the production car info from. So the Veyron has held the record for 8 years. And now it's the Venom. Thanks for the info!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...roduction_cars
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      08-12-2013, 04:40 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0bab0i View Post
I used Wikipedia for info, wasn't pulling rules out of my ass. It still lists the Veyron as fastest. And thats where I go the production car info from. So the Veyron has held the record for 8 years. And now it's the Venom. Thanks for the info!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...roduction_cars
I hate the fact that I have to stress this, but Wikipedia is not a reliable source for any kind of information.
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      08-12-2013, 06:52 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billup View Post
I hate the fact that I have to stress this, but Wikipedia is not a reliable source for any kind of information.
Looked up different sources and these articles state that Veyron is still fastest?
http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...news/130419848

http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/04/16/...roduction-car/
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      08-13-2013, 10:51 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0bab0i View Post
Looked up different sources and these articles state that Veyron is still fastest?
http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...news/130419848

http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/04/16/...roduction-car/
From your own articles:

Quote:
In short, Guinness seems to be saying speed limiters don’t matter when establishing performance records. But since you can’t actually drive that fast in the Bugatti — though who’s actually going to, and for heaven’s sake, where? — it sounds like the Hennessey remains the fastest vehicle in the world from the standpoint of practical speed maniacs.

Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/04/16/...#ixzz2brgWhDFO
Quote:
But the fact remains, the Bugatti Veryon Super Sport in your neighborhood garage will top out at 258 mph, while the Venom GT your neighbor just bought goes 7.7 mph faster. So if you're ever in a very long, very straight drag race, the Venom will continue after the Veyron hits the limiter.

Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...#ixzz2brhIMphL
Also the modified Veyron SS took over 5 miles to hit its record top speed. The Venom GT had less than 3 miles to hit 266mph. If it had the same 5 miles of track that Veyron had, it would have easily eclipsed 268 (probably hit around 275 with the extra track).
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      08-13-2013, 12:42 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
From your own articles:




Also the modified Veyron SS took over 5 miles to hit its record top speed. The Venom GT had less than 3 miles to hit 266mph. If it had the same 5 miles of track that Veyron had, it would have easily eclipsed 268 (probably hit around 275 with the extra track).
You beat me to it.


Regardless of all of this, AWD is still 2nd best, next to FWD. RWD comes in last, its clearly been proven time and time again and RWD is just a dying art.
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