EV reality

[SoCal_NSX]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Electricians and permits are free for you?




Do you have to buy them upfront? I though EV's had brakes



Well you do your own unpermitted electrical upgrades, so I'm sure you can change your own oil too.



Why not, your retorts ignored actual points made in the study they were deconstructing. Because that's good journalism, and reputable source material for proving points.

good journalism? reputable sources???

lmfao...did you even read the articles about how the news outlets are embarrassed for even posting that crap story and trying to back away now from it???

You lap that "study" up, yet ignore EVERY other one that shows the actual facts and cost of ownership???

do you not even know about EV's ??? You never heard about the regenerative braking?

Did an EV run over your dog or something?

[SoCal_NSX]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I charge my model 3 at home with the basic slow 5 mi/hour charger that came with it. Last I looked at my bill I pay between $0.04 & $0.08/kWh for power and my model 3 has a 75kWh battery. So worst case scenario at the highest rate it's around $6 to fully charge it.

Maybe my calculation is wrong, but here's the thing. If it cost me $50 to charge or $70 or whatever it costs to fill up a gas car... I would still own it. I don't own an EV to save money on gas or save the polar bears or any of that.

If you want to save money buy a cheap used Toyota and drive it till the wheels fall off.

exactly....only reason I want one is they are fast af and I'm sick of spending $90 every time I pull into a gas station....saving the planet is side bonus

love them or hate them, I don't care, but spare me the drama about how bad they are and how they now cost more per mile than a gas car

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

good journalism? reputable sources???

You dissed a study (more than just a little bit) and used an article with glaring journalistic and methodology errors in it as if that somehow makes your point for you. Like using violence to protest violence, it's illogical. if my studies are bad, use good ones to debate them. If I make a point cite some data, counter it directly rather than skipping it or making some tangential maneuver. If the data is bad, disprove it. Your links didn't address some of the key data - at all.

You lap that "study" up, yet ignore EVERY other one that shows the actual facts and cost of ownership???

Are you lapping anything up? Of course not...

do you not even know about EV's ??? You never heard about the regenerative braking?

I have, and they still need brakes changed. You should look in to it before you buy one. THe palid is known to have inadequate brakes for the power it offers, so I'm pretty sure the brakes -actually- get used on them.

Did an EV run over your dog or something?

Only one of us is acting offended riled up here slinging adhominem, and it isn't me.

[SoCal_NSX]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

You dissed a study (more than just a little bit) and used an article with glaring journalistic and methodology errors in it as if that somehow makes your point for you. Like using violence to protest violence, it's illogical. if my studies are bad, use good ones to debate them. If I make a point cite some data, counter it directly rather than skipping it or making some tangential maneuver. If the data is bad, disprove it. Your links didn't address some of the key data - at all.




Are you lapping anything up? Of course not...



I have, and they still need brakes changed. You should look in to it before you buy one. THe palid is known to have inadequate brakes for the power it offers, so I'm pretty sure the brakes -actually- get used on them.



Only one of us is acting offended riled up here slinging adhominem, and it isn't me.

then you would realize the brake pads last much much longer on an EV than regular brake pads on gas cars...

only one of us keeps defending a completely flawed study that has been easily picked apart by the simplest of measures

It isn't rocket science and Tesla's aren't the fastest selling cars in America for their looks ...People like saving money more than saving the planet

If you really actually believe that study and that ICE vehicles cost less per mile than EV's...we're done here.

I can't help you

[TargaM2]

Originally Posted by DM5PAV

Many people, myself included… have zero interest in EV. They suck from a driver engagement pov. They are un-entertaining cell phones on wheels and I’d rather just take the subway. At least there is some excitement there as I might get stabbed.

So, regardless of how much praise, how fast, how technologically impressive… no one who wants to hear the sound of an engine, feel the vibration, or manual shift through the gears is EVER going to give a single shit.

EV are awesome, for you.
To me, they don’t even exist and I doubt they ever will.

What a stupid post !
“EV are awesome to me” wtf are you on ? I have no idea what you are talking about & clearly neither do you.
I strongly dislike the whole EV scene & was endeavoring to gain more knowledge as to the whole EV conundrum, which you would have gathered if you’d watched the video or bothered to read any of my posts.
Your clearly in way over your head & a waste of my time, go away you silly little man.

[TargaM2]

Originally Posted by DM5PAV

I didn’t make the post.
And everything I said was spot on.

Never watched you video, never will.
You got a point, just say it.

Ok then, my point is your an idiot because your bashing someone that stated your exact same point of view 🙄.
My god how did I get into a conversation with this fool.
Please go populate another thread 🙄.

[SoCal_NSX]

Originally Posted by DM5PAV

Many people, myself included… have zero interest in EV. They suck from a driver engagement pov. They are un-entertaining cell phones on wheels and I’d rather just take the subway. At least there is some excitement there as I might get stabbed.

So, regardless of how much praise, how fast, how technologically impressive… no one who wants to hear the sound of an engine, feel the vibration, or manual shift through the gears is EVER going to give a single shit.

EV are awesome, for you.
To me, they don’t even exist and I doubt they ever will.

as someone who has several different types of ICE vehicles atm and love the sound of a good exhaust from a gas guzzling V8 or rowing gears in my 718, I still want a M3 LR AWD after test driving one...the thing absolutely rips and with gas creeping back up to almost $5 a gal here I would love to have it as my daily and would have already replaced my 428i with one if the boss wouldn't kill me for adding another car payment

[SoCal_NSX]

Originally Posted by DM5PAV

Sry, what’s an m3 lr?

You mean ev?

I’m sure you will get your wish if that’s something you desire to own. I’ll personally never have an ev, but options are nice and glad you like them!

I’d definitely never have an M EV.
That’s about as pointless and pointless can get to me. Motoring and Motorsport is dying.

They’ll have to come up with something better. Perhaps cars will fly soon, that could be interesting and make EV worth owning.

But, silent EV racing around a track, instant acceleration, no gears… is just not gonna do it for me. I don’t like being in them, and don’t have any desire to own or drive one. There’s nothing fun about it.

Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD

Have you ever even driven one?

I don't know if I would want it if it was my only car, but as a daily driver it would be perfect...I would highly recommend actually driving one before just simply dismissing it. Not all EV's were created equal

[TargaM2]

OMG trying to get intellectual input from members on here is like pulling teeth…I give up 😳
Feel free to sling shit all you want…I’m out 🙄

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD

Have you ever even driven one?

I don't know if I would want it if it was my only car, but as a daily driver it would be perfect...I would highly recommend actually driving one before just simply dismissing it. Not all EV's were created equal

He probably hasn’t.

I do agree that I’m not ready to fully commit to an all ev fleet for myself but NOTHING beats an ev for a daily. That was the sole reason why I got my long range. Like it’s the fucking greatest lol. Imagine dailying a plaid. My god lol

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I have taken four (4) ICE cars to 200,000 plus miles (3 are break my wallet BMWs). My E90 at 419,000 miles is well documented here on E90 Post. I'll have to find Car and Drivers data to understand their number, but none of my cars have required $20,000 of maintenance for just the ICE drivetrain (i.e. the main components difference) for 200,000 miles let alone 400,000 miles. I keep very good records on maintenance cost for all of my cars.

Yes, it does boil down to maintenance, but my real experience casts a huge doubt on a $20K maintenance claim for and ICE drivetrain (engine, trans, diff, and cooling components); even for BMWs!

Quick estimate of oil changes at 7,500 mile OCI, drivetrain fluid changes at 50,000 mile intervals, airfilters and plugs, the best I get is $5,600. I'd say it's an over estimate as well. Maybe hoses and a WP... another $1,200? So, $6,800. Far cry from $20,000. Maybe brakes at higher replacement intervals for the duration, so an extra $1,500. $8,300 total.

So until I review C&D's data I'll call BS.

Is your experience usual, or exceptional?

[________]

C’mon F30, you do your own maintenance in your garage with a lift…
How can you say it’s not exceptional? It’s far from usual.

The average person spends boatloads more as labour is the most expensive part of maintenance.

[Tejas1836]

Originally Posted by RM7

Is your experience usual, or exceptional?

In my experience, my friends and I, I think that is about right +/-. And if one is comparing ICE vs EV with high milage, one must figure in the cost of EV battery replacement.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I used dealer pricing $100 oil change for example. For the E90 I barely did any maintenance on the engine to get to 200,000. It all on record here somewhere. Like 16 oil changes, WP and t-stat. $1,600 + $1,200 + $1,200 for 2x plugs. $4,000 at dealer prices.

No need for a lift to do plugs and oil. Lol.

Outlier among BMWs anyway. Every turbo N engine, which is most of them on the road now by a large margin will require thousands more of repairs by 200k miles.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

In my experience, my friends and I, I think that is about right +/-. And if one is comparing ICE vs EV with high milage, one must figure in the cost of EV battery replacement.

You don’t replace the battery. That’s like saying we have to figure in the cost of an engine replacement. They both should last the “useful life” of the vehicle. Some won’t and those are bad designs.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Onesie

C’mon F30, you do your own maintenance in your garage with a lift…
How can you say it’s not exceptional? It’s far from usual.

The average person spends boatloads more as labour is the most expensive part of maintenance.

The average person driving a Prius to 250k probably spent less in maintenance at a Toyota dealer, than he did doing his own BMW maintenance in his garage.

[Tejas1836]

Originally Posted by chris719

You don’t replace the battery. That’s like saying we have to figure in the cost of an engine replacement. They both should last the “useful life” of the vehicle. Some won’t and those are bad designs.

EV electric motors are the engines, batteries are the fuel tanks
We shall see.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

EV electric motors are the engines, batteries are the fuel tanks
We shall see.

Yes... but they are both the most expensive components of the vehicle and "wear items". Your analogy is not perfect. The electric motors are simple and cheap in comparison.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by chris719

The electric motors are simple and cheap in comparison.

And they also fail, and cost about as much to replace (and you can't repair them).

[chris719]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

And they also fail, and cost about as much to replace (and you can't repair them).

Extremely low failure rate and ridiculous lifetime if engineered properly. I thought you were an EE? Shouldn't you know something about the reliability of a brushless or induction motor?

It is laughable to compare them to the lack of reliability of a typical ICE. MTBF comparison would be pretty amusing.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by chris719

Extremely low failure rate and ridiculous lifetime if engineered properly. I thought you were an EE? Shouldn't you know something about the reliability of a brushless or induction motor?

It is laughable to compare them to the lack of reliability of a typical ICE. MTBF comparison would be pretty amusing.

If

Check this link:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre....226436/page-9

there are several examples, by late page 4 it gets interesting.

It seems electric motor coolant and electric motors / electronics don't make a good combination. I never learned that is any of my EE classes [/sarcasam]

There was a whole class of tesla motors that were shit:

https://www.csmonitor.com/Business/I...y-60-000-miles

Early Tesla Model S motors have had reliability issues. Now, a new analysis of data provided to Plug-In America by 327 owners of early Tesla Model S cars suggests that as many as two-thirds of those early Model S drivetrains will need to be replaced within 60,000 miles.

There are plenty of other examples, though I'm sure you didn't look.

Here is an interesting headline:

Dragged down by Tesla, EVs least reliable cars on British roads
https://driving.ca/column/motor-mout...nes-says-study

[chad86tsi]

google searech the term "tesla reliability", lots of hits and data.



This one was interesting given recent discussion about low cost to maintain EV's:

https://jalopnik.com/advisor/tesla-maintenance-cost/
According to RepairPal, the average Tesla maintenance cost is $832 per year. That compares to an average of $652 per year for all car models sold in the United States. Depending on which services your Tesla needs, you may end up spending much more than the average car owner on yearly maintenance needs.

It gets way, way worse for EV's when you are out of warranty.

You can read the reports, look at the data, crunch the numbers, or you can just believe whatever you want and ignore facts. I'm not here to tell anyone what to believe.