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      12-18-2020, 05:33 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by fiveohwblow View Post
Fair enough. I’m taking the more cautious approach and do not believe they are at their pinnacle. I hope they don’t “n54 fizzle out.” So far, it’s quite promising.
i agree. the s58 has more room for growth such as aftermarket turbos. i'll be curious to see where the limit is and how much growth there is around the platform. Will people be willing to spend 20-30k on a upgraded engine package and another 10k on a built trans like the GTR community did ? hard to say.
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      12-18-2020, 05:44 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
ok ? its quick. still slower than alot of modified SUVs like the trackhawk and upcoming durango hellcat with some mods on it. doesn't make as much power as other 6 cylinder motors like the 2jz and vr38 from the GTR.. both of which can support over 1500whp builds. not sure even pure turbo M4's can reach that level. lets not even get into the v8tt sedans that were faster on that guys list.
here are the times obtained with a custom F80 Paul tune on a stage 1 (!) X3MC (stock downpipes, stock turbos). I don’t know what you have to do to a Trackhawk or a fucking Durango of all cars to get similar times. My guess is a lot. Now imagine the 500 pounds lighter G80 or G82 with the same tune. Like I said, S58 is a miracle of an engine. But BMW haters are still going to hate....
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      12-18-2020, 09:07 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Law View Post
For newer folks or those with shorter memories, this was a one-off M GmbH production made to celebrate the 25th Anniversary of the BMW M5 (German: 25 Jahre M5).

It featured a 5.5L V10 (theoretically an "S85B55") good for 580 HP mated to a 7-speed DCT and lightweight construction, including a carbon fiber roof and featured other goodies like a carbon fiber intake plenum (the noise!).



What a machine and a shame they didn't put it in production (though I'm sure the M engineers would've loved to)

Come to think of it, most of those BMW M prototypes (i.e., E46 M3 Touring, E31 M8, E34 M5 Convertible, E39 M5 Touring, X5 LM etc.) belong in this thread but my favorite and one that also hasn't been mentioned is the E31 M8.



It's my favorite BMW they never made because the story of the car has been a sort of urban legend and folk tale for BMW fans. No other BMW has this kind of mystical legendary allure. Cars like the E30 M3 are legends because of what we know about them. But the E31 M8 is a legend because of what we didn't know and still don't know about it.



It was and is clouded in so much secrecy yet so revered with awe and it's the only one of the 'what if' BMWs (outside of a modern M1) that you can't build yourself, no matter how much money and resources you may have.



Its pedigree is connected directly or indirectly to BMW Motorsport history, the 1999 BMW victory at Le Mans, Team BMW/Schitnzer Motorsport, the McLaren F1, Paul Rosche, and more...even though it didn't even officially exist until 10 years ago.



The E31 M8 prototype comes with a spec sheet and bloodline that would make the modern M8 a plebeian and unworthy of the nameplate by comparison.



It had a naturally aspirated V12, related to, or similar to the one that powered the McLaren F1, with individual throttle bodies with carbon fiber intakes and intake runners, mated to a 6 speed manual in a body constructed with lightweight materials.



Since this one-off prototype shrouded in so much mystery and obscurity, for decades, most people (and the internet) thought for the longest time that it either did not exist or that the prototype was destroyed in the 1990s...that is until it resurfaced in the summer of 2010, still in the collection of BMW M's now famous 'secret underground garage'.



Partially thanks to this obscurity, there are many versions and conflicting accounts regarding details of the actual V12 engine in the M8 prototype.
We know the S70B56 powered the E31 850CSi...and few know that it was actually a true M GmbH engine and the 850CSi even bore the chassis VIN prefix "WBS" in authentic M fashion, meaning it is a full-fledged M-car/product just not badged as such.
But it lacked individual throttle bodies or a sophisticated (compared to other contemporary motorsport units) cylinder head being an SOHC (24 valve) design and a block that was a slightly massaged M70.
We also know that the S70/2 is the famous V12 that powered the McLaren F1 and that the S70/3 (aka P75) was the racing version that brought BMW that famous 24 Hr Le Mans victory in the V12 LMR.
So what about the M8 Prototype?



The most accepted and most widely propagated version that circulates the internet over the years is built upon years of rumors and insider knowledge, an amalgamation of urban legend and forum talk...BMW at one point even acknowledged and tried to clear up some of it...but nonetheless it says that there is a 550 HP 6.0L V12, the S70/1 that was allegedly bespoke to the M8 Prototype. Most of the press articles and reports also echo this.



However, BMW recently published their own article about the M8 Prototype, further adding to the confusion and mystery.
In the BMW article, they claim official specs from the S70/2 variant, which would make it identical to the BMW V12 in the McLaren F1, except the quoted horsepower figure at 640 HP, is even higher than the standard McLaren F1.

This contrasts with the long line of previous knowledge and reports that always cited 550 HP from approx. 6000cc of displacement.



So either BMW made a typo, or they don't recognize the existence of the S70/1, or everyone was wrong all this time.
I guess we'll never really know.
But it doesn't really matter...because the key takeaway is that the E31 M8, a lightweight coupe of a brilliant design with a manual gearbox and an NA V12 pushing 550-640HP is the best BMW they never made...and a strong contender for the best car of all time that they never made.

That grille on the E31 prototype...
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      12-18-2020, 09:13 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Law View Post
I realized it would be very unfair to mention the V12 X5 LM in this thread and not provide the awesome sound of the S70/3 (from the V12 LMR) powered X5 as well.

So here it is, with the one and only Hans-Joachim Stuck





Hans Joachim Stuck....Eine Legende!
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      12-18-2020, 10:20 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by baege View Post
agreed, except you forgot about the M2

the M2 has a little boy racer look about it that is begging for a small naturally aspirated v8 in there (like the old s65)
Fixed it for you.
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      12-19-2020, 09:10 AM   #72
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Wish "they'd" make...

A slightly larger version of the E30 body style (both 2 and 4-door) updated a bit, in the vein of what Ford did with the Mustang and Bronco

But constructed as...

-Light-weight space-frame tube-chassis
-Plastic skinned
-3L inline six (I'll take the N52)
-6-sp manual
-Rear-drive
-Big brakes w/ABS
-sunroof

AND NO frickin' TV screens anywhere, just good ole analog gauges.
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Last edited by Efthreeoh; 12-19-2020 at 09:39 AM..
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      12-19-2020, 09:26 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
-Light-weight monocoque tube-chassis
Do you mean monocoque or tubular, or some combination thereof? Those terms are sort of mutually exclusive...
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      12-19-2020, 09:39 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
Do you mean monocoque or tubular, or some combination thereof? Those terms are sort of mutually exclusive...
Yeah, I'm a bit inaccurate. I really meant space-frame. I'll correct for accuracy.
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      12-19-2020, 03:42 PM   #75
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SUVs? lol...no.

This:

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Last edited by RM7; 12-19-2020 at 11:28 PM..
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      12-19-2020, 05:29 PM   #76
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Winner. I'll take one, please!
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      12-20-2020, 12:56 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
SUVs? lol...no.

This:

What was that beneath? I should look it up. Unless it was all CGI.
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      12-20-2020, 03:48 PM   #78
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A crate. Like a demon crate to turn it up on the M cars. May be 800hp+
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      12-21-2020, 04:31 AM   #79
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A new 911 with a smaller size and hydraulic steering. Not a Cayman, had one of those and its just 'ok'. The rear engine bit makes things more interesting.

A TTRS with good weight distribution and RWD. Had an MK2 TTRS, the physics of it was such a let down. In retrospect simply looking at the specs and where the primary portion of torque goes most of the time would've clearly told me before purchasing. You live and learn.
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      12-21-2020, 08:54 PM   #80
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It was a sad day when I learned that the GTV would never come to fruition

Name:  alfa-romeo-gtv-illo-christianschulte-1530629520.jpg
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I would also sell my soul for a GTAm

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      12-22-2020, 01:43 AM   #81
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I would also sell my soul for a GTAm
That's the nicest looking Alfa I have seen. Sometimes you wish manufacturers would run with it.
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      12-22-2020, 02:18 AM   #82
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Instead of the F40 128ti, BMW should have applied the same ti formula to the F22 230i. 300bhp, an LSD, huge brakes, and sticky tires would be so much more fun on a RWD platform.
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      12-22-2020, 10:47 AM   #83
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For me, it's the Yamaha 0X99-11. I fell in love the second I saw it!
Tandem seating, F1 derived NA V12 with an 11,000rpm redline, 2,200lbs. and a 6-speed manual. It sounds amazing!
I guess the closest thing to this would be the Gordon Murray T50 at this point. Yes, McLaren F1 is too, but I'm not driving a $20 million car! Or a $2.5 million dollar car for that matter in the T50, but I can dream.

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      12-22-2020, 10:59 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSM330i View Post
For me, it's the Yamaha 0X99-11. I fell in love the second I saw it!
Tandem seating, F1 derived NA V12 with an 11,000rpm redline, 2,200lbs. and a 6-speed manual. It sounds amazing!
I guess the closest thing to this would be the Gordon Murray T50 at this point. Yes, McLaren F1 is too, but I'm not driving a $20 million car! Or a $2.5 million dollar car for that matter in the T50, but I can dream.
Without googling or watching the video wasn't the car extremely difficult to drive on wet roads, notoriously difficult?

Great post. Wild !!! car.

Maybe I'm thinking of the Caparo.

Last edited by overcoil; 12-22-2020 at 11:09 AM..
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      12-23-2020, 05:49 AM   #85
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My other vote is a a real car but with mods.

An Ariel Nomad with fully enclosed (but removable) body panels so it could be a 4-season car. With heat and AC.
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      12-23-2020, 05:58 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSM330i View Post
For me, it's the Yamaha 0X99-11. I fell in love the second I saw it!
Tandem seating, F1 derived NA V12 with an 11,000rpm redline, 2,200lbs. and a 6-speed manual. It sounds amazing!
I guess the closest thing to this would be the Gordon Murray T50 at this point. Yes, McLaren F1 is too, but I'm not driving a $20 million car! Or a $2.5 million dollar car for that matter in the T50, but I can dream.
Sorry, but that was the most boring track car video I've ever seen. Seriously, I watched it up to 4:47. Did any of the drivers actually light up the 11,000 RPM engine and go over 65 MPH?

LOL
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Last edited by Efthreeoh; 12-24-2020 at 09:00 AM..
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      01-11-2021, 03:11 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Sorry, but that was the most boring track car video I've ever seen. Seriously, I watched it up to 4:47. Did any of the drivers actually light up the 11,000 RPM engine and go over 65 MPH?

LOL
LOL! They're all museum pieces at this point, so no one is going to thrash them.

ScottSinger - I believe you're referring to the Caparo. I haven't seen any type of test drive video. I also loved the Caparo.
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      01-11-2021, 10:11 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by TSM330i View Post
LOL! They're all museum pieces at this point, so no one is going to thrash them.

ScottSinger - I believe you're referring to the Caparo. I haven't seen any type of test drive video. I also loved the Caparo.
Then what was the point?
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