NASCAR 2023: Gargson - Chastain incident

[Killed by Death]

Happy campers in Nascar this weekend

[M5Rick]

Pudding-bowl haircut grabbed him so beard rightly socked him to calm him down

[Artemis]

Were penalties handed by race directors ?

2020 - world championship karting - Italy: collision on track between Luca Corberi and Paolo Ippolito. DNF for Corberi. Corberi waits next to the track to throw a front end to his competitor. Corberi attacks his competitor in the stands. Corberi's dad (owner of one of the biggest kart tracks in the world) storms in to equally attack the competitor.

Verdict: 15 year karting ban for Corberi (decision upheld in appeal).

[NickyC]

Nice quick punch!

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Nice quick punch!

Yep, it was a good lick...could hear it on audio.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Were penalties handed by race directors ?

Haven't seen any penalties yet. One or both will probably have to write NASCAR a check.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Were penalties handed by race directors ?

OT:
Update on the NASCAR fistfight: "NASCAR won’t dish out penalties for Ross Chastain-Noah Gragson fistfight at Kansas":
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sp...275214706.html

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

OT:
Update on the NASCAR fistfight: "NASCAR won’t dish out penalties for Ross Chastain-Noah Gragson fistfight at Kansas":
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sp...275214706.html

That's a sensible decision as it's one of those things that has built up with 'tick for tack' on the track between two drivers in the same make of race car.
I shudder to think what would be FIA's reaction in similar circumstances between two F1 drivers.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

That's a sensible decision as it's one of those things that has built up with 'tick for tack' on the track between two drivers in the same make of race car.
I shudder to think what would be FIA's reaction in similar circumstances between two F1 drivers.

NASCAR and F1: the world is watching and the elite drivers are supposed to set an example. Governing bodies are supposed to penalize bad behavior.

On the one hand, true that you need to consider the incident within its context (what happened prior to the incident between both drivers - it is reported that Chastain has a track record of aggressive 'elbows out' behavior on track). But on the other hand, deliberately making physical contact is unacceptable. Gragson should not have made physical contact with Chastain in the first place. But Chastain's violent blow that followed, also cannot be condoned. OK, Chastain was allowed to stand his ground and to defend himself (Gragson definitely grabbed him), but his Chuck Norris reaction was IMHO disproportionate - it could have remained some pushing and shoving with officials intervening whilst cameras were rolling. Those images by elite drivers give the sport a bad name and may inspire others to do the same. But maybe Americans see the situation differently compared to Europeans.

Remember the Verstappen-Ocon incident. Images and Race Stewards decision about the lap 44/71 incident during the 2018 Brazil race (race leader Verstappen was fighting for the race win, trailed by Hamilton - Ocon had been lapped). Ocon got a 10-second 'stop & go' penalty for causing a collision. Verstappen was ordered to undertake two days of public service at the discretion of the FIA for making deliberate physical contact with Ocon. What Ocon did on track was unacceptable. But that did not legitimize Verstappen to make physical contact (repeated pushing) with Ocon in the garage after the race.

[M5Rick]

The difference is it's just very light pushing with the 20 year olds in Brazil, and as there was no physical reaction from Ocon meant he was out of order on the track trying to unlap himself.

[M5Rick]

It's the same with Max's little convo with Russell after he shaved his cars' left sidepod off in the sprint, Max showed restraint with a warning to him afterwards about doing that, if he had not said anything to him then of course Russell would think it's alright to do that and in his retort to Max afterwards he said he would continue to do it like a typical trouble maker.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

It's the same with Max's little convo with Russell after he shaved his cars' left sidepod off in the sprint, Max showed restraint with a warning to him afterwards about doing that, if he had not said anything to him then of course Russell would think it's alright to do that and in his retort to Max afterwards he said he would continue to do it like a typical trouble maker.

It's more effective to keep cool: grace under pressure. Verstappen has matured. A younger version of Verstappen could have gotten more physical with Russell. Russell slapped Bottas during

Remember his father-in-law going into 'Jean-Claude Van Damme' mode with Chilean driver Salazar during the 1982 German GP (Hockenheim) after an unlapping incident:

And Senna punching Irvine (he hit him on the temple and pushed him off the massage table) after the 1993 Japanese GP (Suzuka) because of unlapping followed by holding Senna up as backmarker. Senna still won the race but fumed. Senna got a 2-race ban for his physical violence and told the press later that his violence was unacceptable (but still blaming Irvine for what he had done on track). Rumor has it that Irvine jokingly shouted "Insurance claim!" after he got punched by Senna:

Yeah, crashing with a race leader during an unlapping move, can hit nerves.

Russell 'slapped' Bottas during the 2021 Italian GP (Imola) after they collided:

[Killed by Death]

In America it's called f*ck around, find out...

The more you f*ck around, the more you find out

[allinon72]

NASCAR cannot be compared to F1 in this realm...it just isn't comparable. NASCAR made the decision a few years ago to let the drivers sort things out themselves, within reason and not on the track. It creates good drama and TV moments that create buzz days after the race is over. There's been a rash of on-track incidents this year, which NASCAR has been quick to crack down on, so they're probably relieved this was isolated between 2 drivers off track.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

It's more effective to keep cool: grace under pressure. Verstappen has matured. A younger version of Verstappen could have gotten more physical with Russell. Russell slapped Bottas during

Remember his father-in-law going into 'Jean-Claude Van Damme' mode with Chilean driver Salazar during the 1982 German GP (Hockenheim) after an unlapping incident:

Brains of a rocking horse was Salazar.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

In America it's called f*ck around, find out...

The more you f*ck around, the more you find out

After reading on the two of them on track it's a shame Gragson didn't get one back on Chastain with the big guy stepping in, Chastain is the real rogue with his dirty driving.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

After reading on the two of them on track it's a shame Gragson didn't get one back on Chastain with the big guy stepping in, Chastain is the real rogue with his dirty driving.

Chastain is well on his way to becoming NASCAR's next heel. It's been a while since someone really filled the villain role. I think it is a calculated effort and his fanbase is growing.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Chastain is well on his way to becoming NASCAR's next heel. It's been a while since someone really filled the villain role. I think it is a calculated effort and his fanbase is growing.

Whatever happened to having the good guy as the hero in NASCAR?

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Whatever happened to having the good guy as the hero in NASCAR?

Oh, they do, Chase Elliot is the sport’s most popular driver by far. He is their golden boy.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Oh, they do, Chase Elliot is the sport’s most popular driver by far. He is their golden boy.

That's good. Hardly surprising is that Rick Hendrick has said that Chastain is going to make a lot of enemies.

[allinon72]

NASCAR has had many villains...Dale Sr was a big one, Harvick, Kyle Busch, Kurt Busch, all were big heels at different times.

[MSpeedX7]

Notice how calculated Chastain was with that lick. He grabbed Gragsons Rt hand then clocked him. You can tell that wasn’t his first fight.

I agree NASCAR has needed someone like him for a while. It’s gotten too buddy buddy. All of the drivers park there million dollar coaches next to each other each weekend. All of there wives and kids play together. Most of the drivers are either in a friendly golf league or basketball league with each other. It’s about time for some personality in NASCAR.