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      01-15-2019, 09:06 AM   #89
UncleWede
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War crimes. That just sounds so. I can't even describe

For Israel to even offer to give back and live in peace after taking land in a war seems rather well behaved for a conquering government
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      01-15-2019, 09:11 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
War crimes. That just sounds so. I can't even describe

For Israel to even offer to give back and live in peace after taking land in a war seems rather well behaved for a conquering government
Agreed, except now they have reversed course and are/were opening new illegal settlements. Which, obviously has not helped anything.
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      01-15-2019, 09:15 AM   #91
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Agreed, except now they have reversed course and are/were opening new illegal settlements. Which, obviously has not helped anything.
The illegal settlements are wrong, I agree. But Israel gave all the settlements they built in Gaza to the Palestinians and only got rocket fire in return.

Only one side has tried to make amends, the world gets sick of the Palestinians always wanting more without even offering an olive branch.
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      01-15-2019, 09:19 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by djsaad1 View Post
The illegal settlements are wrong, I agree. But Israel gave all the settlements they built in Gaza to the Palestinians and only got rocket fire in return.

Only one side has tried to make amends, the world gets sick of the Palestinians always wanting more without even offering an olive branch.
True, but I don't think they need to build new ones to exacerbate the problem. And it depends on what Palestinians you are talking about. I agree they have been screwed by their leadership and by pretty much everyone else in the area. The Arabs have been no friend to them (except as a political pawn) and massacred them in the past as well. When Netanyahu got in power though he went hardline and pulled a lot of the offers IIRC. That coupled with Hamas gaining power and it is impossible right now to get anything done with the current leadership in power of both sides.

Any way, just a long winded way of saying the obvious. The situation is extremely complex and fluid with all of the different actors in the region.
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      01-15-2019, 09:34 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
True, but I don't think they need to build new ones to exacerbate the problem. And it depends on what Palestinians you are talking about. I agree they have been screwed by their leadership and by pretty much everyone else in the area. The Arabs have been no friend to them (except as a political pawn) and massacred them in the past as well. When Netanyahu got in power though he went hardline and pulled a lot of the offers IIRC. That coupled with Hamas gaining power and it is impossible right now to get anything done with the current leadership in power of both sides.

Any way, just a long winded way of saying the obvious. The situation is extremely complex and fluid with all of the different actors in the region.
Honestly I don't think the situation is that complex on the Israeli side, it is on the Palestinian side because of Hamas.

If the Palestinian leadership be it Hamas or Abbas, would accept that Israel has the right to exist and meet to discuss peace, then we could get the process started. The issue is that there is a civil war on the Palestinian side and neither party has any real control.

Netenyahu is a dick, but the reason he is still in power is because there is no one to discuss peace with. The typical Israeli civilian has always been for peace, the problem is they kept seeing their government offering peace, they even saw their government evacuate all Israeli's from Gaza for the hope of peace and only got more war in return. They are frustrated, they want someone on the other side to come to the table. If the Palestinians show signs of interest, I am guessing Netenyahu will be voted out.

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      01-15-2019, 09:35 AM   #94
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The radical and ultranationalist parties, though a small element in Israeli society, play an oversized role in keeping the Likud in power. The ironic part about that, is that their men don't have to serve in the military as long as they are devoutly studying the Torah. Dead weight on their society.
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      01-15-2019, 09:36 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsaad1 View Post
Honestly I don't think the situation is that complex on the Israeli side, it is on the Palestinian side because of Hamas.

If the Palestinian leadership be it Hamas or Abbas, would accept that Israel has the right to exist and meet to discuss peace, then we could get the process started. The issue is that there is a civil war on the Palestinian side and neither party has any real control.

Netenyahu is a dick, but the reason he is still in power is because there is no one to discuss peace with. The typical Israeli civilian has always been for peace, the problem is they kept seeing their government offering peace, they even saw their government evacuate all Israeli's from Gaza for the hope of peace and only got more war in return. They are frustrated, they want someone on the other side to come to the table. If the Palestinians show signs if interested, I am guessing Netenyahu will be voted out.
Great points.
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      01-15-2019, 09:37 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
The radical and ultranationalist parties, though a small element in Israeli society, play an oversized role in keeping the Likud in power. The ironic part about that, is that their men don't have to serve in the military as long as they are devoutly studying the Torah. Dead weight on their society.
Weird, I didnít know that.
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      01-15-2019, 09:37 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
The radical and ultranationalist parties, though a small element in Israeli society, play an oversized role in keeping the Likud in power. The ironic part about that, is that their men don't have to serve in the military as long as they are devoutly studying the Torah. Dead weight on their society.
I agree, but the reason they don't have as much opposition as they used to is because the non extremists just got frustrated. They decided if there is no peace partner than why bother.
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      01-15-2019, 09:40 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Weird, I didnít know that.
The downside of parliamentary governing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty...ment_of_Israel
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