[chonko]

Originally Posted by Daneel

The sticky has US prices? Keep in mind that Euro prices are COMPLETELY irrelevent for several reasons.

First, not only does standard equipment vary with the US models, but the car is placed at a completely different level. BMW does not compete with the G35 and the Lexus IS350 in Europe. In the US, they do (and people who say that they the 3 series does not compete with the G35/IS350 are talking crap).

Second, the tax structure is completely different. Some people have been using percentage increases from the E46 330ci to the E92 335 to estimate a price for the US 335; this, while a slightly better measure, is still wrong, because Europe is getting a 330 coupe, as well as a 325 coupe. There will be no 328 coupe in Europe. This is probably the MAIN reason why the US prices will not correlate to Euro prices, even using an estimation based on % increases.

Again: US coupe line-up 328/335. Euro coupe line-up: 325/330/335.

Thus, the *only* logical argument for raising US coupe prices beyond normal, is that BMW wants to send the coupe upmarket.

Keep in mind that there is mounting evidence that the sedans will be replaced by a 328/335 lineup this fall, and BMW *cannot* afford to send the sedans upmarket.

So, if BMW wants to send the coupe upscale, then the coupe will be more expensive than the corresponding sedan based soley on its bodystyle. I consider this a valid argument, since they do the same with the 5 series vs the 6 series.

But apart from that, if the sedan lineup changes to 328/335, then it is highly likely that the coupe will be just under 40k.

Daneel,I have followed similar arguments over and over and it just seems to me that some people just want the 335i priced up. And that is not going to happen in North America.
The North American market is a huge one in terms of BMW global portfolio, and it is indeed the most competitive of them all.
And to add to this, majority of the North American consumers are sensitive to pricing.
Will BMW make an irrational choice in pricing themselves out of the market: the answer is no.
Like you and some others have pointed out, technology brings about productivity, and that translates to lower unit production cost. Couple this with the volume North America offers BMW, they will dare to raise the price of the 3 er.
I also believe it is due to the intense nature of the competition that BMW will replace the 325/330 with the 328/335. Addressing what we North Americans(generalizing) are sold on:numbers- we love numbers without understanding the underlying factors.

[Daneel]

Originally Posted by chonko

Daneel,I haven't followed similar arguments over and over and it just seems to me that some people just want the 335i priced up. And that is not going to happen in North America.
The North American market is a huge one in terms of BMW global portfolio, and it is indeed the most competitive of them all.
And to add to this, majority of the North American consumers are sensitive to pricing.
Will BMW make an irrational choice in pricing themselves out of the market: the answer is no.
Like you and some others have pointed out, technology brings about productivity, and that translates to lower unit production cost. Couple this with the volume North America offers BMW, they will dare to raise the price of the 3 er.
I also believe it is due to the intense nature of the competition that BMW will replace the 325/330 with the 328/335. Addressing what we North Americans(generalizing) are sold on:numbers- we love numbers without understanding the underlying factors.

Thanks for the support Chonko. Personally, I am losing hope though The military pricing brochure that came out were estimates, but the estimates were obtained from BMW AG.

Also, given that the 325 is the mainstream seller, the 328 presents an even better deal for people who would ordinarily get the 325. Teh 335 then remains as the top end 3-er model for people willing to pay extra to beat Infinity and Lexus (modulo M3 of course).

I'm playing devils advocate here, but unless the official prices come out soon, I'm all but done. At the moment, I suspect that BMW will try to raise prices on the coupe based on the body style.

It is more or less certain that the sedan lineup will change to a 328/335 this fall. I highly doubt that they will send the sedan up-market, so a 335 sedan will likely be under 40k. Probably around 38K. That would place the 335 coupe at just over 40.

Again, they cannot send the sedan upmartet because the upcoming 1 series will not sell as a hatchback in the US; it will probably be introduced as a coupe or a vert. US customers will not buy a hatchback from a "premium" marque; they will just go out and get the GTI for less money, if that's the case.

[Daneel]

The annoying thing is the situation that people who are debating between teh 328 and the 330 are in.

To clarify, suppose the 328 comes in at 34K msrp. The 330 invoice is about 34K. So if you can swing a 500 over invoice deal on the current 330, then you get more horsepower for roughly the same price, since the 328 will be at msrp for a while.

Of course, after a month or two the 328 will be negotiable, but probably not in the Seattle area (where I am moving next month).

So, assuming the 335 is out of my budget, I can:
1) Order a 330 sedan this june or july and get an 06 330 E90 for roughtly 35K + options
2) Order a 328 sedan in September for roughly 34K + options
3) Order a 328 coupe in September (I'm not on any waiting lists, so I'll probably have to wait till sept) for roughly 35K + options.

Does anyone see anything wrong with this analysis? Maybe priced the 328 sedan too high?

[stressdoc]

I think there will be about a 2.5k dif between E90 & E92, and a 7k dif between 328 & 335.

[chonko]

Originally Posted by Daneel

Thanks for the support Chonko. Personally, I am losing hope though The military pricing brochure that came out were estimates, but the estimates were obtained from BMW AG.

Also, given that the 325 is the mainstream seller, the 328 presents an even better deal for people who would ordinarily get the 325. Teh 335 then remains as the top end 3-er model for people willing to pay extra to beat Infinity and Lexus (modulo M3 of course).

I'm playing devils advocate here, but unless the official prices come out soon, I'm all but done. At the moment, I suspect that BMW will try to raise prices on the coupe based on the body style.

It is more or less certain that the sedan lineup will change to a 328/335 this fall. I highly doubt that they will send the sedan up-market, so a 335 sedan will likely be under 40k. Probably around 38K. That would place the 335 coupe at just over 40.

Again, they cannot send the sedan upmartet because the upcoming 1 series will not sell as a hatchback in the US; it will probably be introduced as a coupe or a vert. US customers will not buy a hatchback from a "premium" marque; they will just go out and get the GTI for less money, if that's the case.

Well you should not lose hope. You just struck a sound note: the unique nature of the North American market- US more especially.
1. Moving the 3 series upscale with the intention of bringing in the 1 series will be counter-productive. The hatchback will not sell in the US market. Thus the need to keep the 3 series within the price range.
2. Raise the 3 series entry level from 325i to 328i will cement the leadership. Currently the 325i is a better package( cost+performance) compared to the Lexus IS250 and others. What better way to maintain that position than to attack by raising the bar: 328i.
3. The 335i to be the top line Non-M 3 series. And something tells me BMW as usual will understate the performance numbers on this model.

[ahmpower]

How do I officially complain to BMW that Lemon is not available on E92/E93 ?

[tonee8519]

Will the 328i coupe have real leather as an option and come standard with 17 inch wheels.

[akhbhaat]

Originally Posted by chonko

Well you should not lose hope. You just struck a sound note: the unique nature of the North American market- US more especially.
1. Moving the 3 series upscale with the intention of bringing in the 1 series will be counter-productive. The hatchback will not sell in the US market. Thus the need to keep the 3 series within the price range.
2. Raise the 3 series entry level from 325i to 328i will cement the leadership. Currently the 325i is a better package( cost+performance) compared to the Lexus IS250 and others. What better way to maintain that position than to attack by raising the bar: 328i.
3. The 335i to be the top line Non-M 3 series. And something tells me BMW as usual will understate the performance numbers on this model.

FWIW, I've long speculated that the US version of the 1 series, if and when it comes, will be a coupe/cabrio model only. There will be no sedan/five door hatch; it won't be replacing or even supplementing the 3 series sedan in that market. If anything, a new 3 series model with a smaller engine (2.5L at best guess) would come long before that happened.

There is a good chance that the coupe is significantly pricier than the sedan, perhaps 2-3k more (over the previous ~1k difference b/w the 330i and 330Ci). This being the case, it could only suggest that there's going to be room at the bottom for the 1 series coupe. There's certainly going to be room for the cabrio, if nothing else.

I certainly agree with your suggestion that BMW is going to attack the mainstream first. Improving the 325i (which is already the fastest and one of the most value oriented models in its niche class) even further (at virtually no added production cost!) before the competition even has a chance to catch up is sending a serious message to the competition and will score a lot of points with prospective buyers.

[stressdoc]

The DIs will be a huge step too, in synch with rising gas prices. The 2.5 N51 & 3.0l N53, and diesel Xs will allow BMW to market itself as the Green auto. Brilliant all around.

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

The DIs will be a huge step too, in synch with rising gas prices. The 2.5 N51 & 3.0l N53, and diesel Xs will allow BMW to market itself as the Green auto. Brilliant all around.

Current diesels give off to many emissions to be considered green
People just think they are beter because they use less fuel

The next 4 Cylinder Direct Injection petrols are going to use less fuel ,make more power and give off less emissions than their diesel counterparts.

So diesels days in the sun are numberd

[Borti]

Originally Posted by Daneel

Given that new body styles are inevitable, and the coupe has always offered the sports suspension, the only thing that really is extra (besides the "exclusive" interior, and the "upscale" materials), is the new engine. 4-5K for 45 hp? Hmmmm.

If you think about it, its not just stock we could discuss here. If you plan to keep it stock then that is totally fine and what I am about to say is irrelevant. On the other hand, do you know what Dinan could do with two turbos? They will certainly not deny the power to be had from a reflash and exhaust. This car is going to be the new Audi B5 S4, only better, and holy crap I cannot wait.

[maximinimaus]

Originally Posted by GregA

It's the color that was internally named Ultramarine Blue (Ultramarinblau). Montego Blue is a marketing name for that color.

Can't be the same colour. The colour code for Ultramarine Blue is/was A42, for Montego Blue A51.
Today I took a look on a sample of Ultramarine Blue and I was not impressed.
From the available pics on the forum, Montego Blue looks better, IMO.

[redbaron01]

Any info on if this car will have a moonroof <e92> ??

[BenMW]

Originally Posted by redbaron01

Any info on if this car will have a moonroof <e92> ??

of course it will. Its standard in the states.