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      05-20-2019, 07:38 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I'm not a Luddite either. I'm just being realistic and stating facts as they have played out. The availability of gasoline is related to the existence of the petrochemical industry, which supports a world-wide economic system. If the argument is the blood for oil crap, then we probably pay more per gallon; it's just the tax bill is applied different. The Europeans get to tax the crap out of fuel because we pay their defense bills.

We can argue this all day long. But the facts are, the US Government has incentivized the creation of the EV market solely for the political purpose of environmentalism. It is just a statement of fact.
Even if that were the case, it’s a good way to ease the cost AND burden that our government has been paying an unfair share of, for a fraction of what we pay now.

If we can reduce our oil dependency down to a sustainable level, or even to a point where we can EXPORT our production to the EU to help offset our investment in foreign oil, wouldn’t it be worth it to actually INCREASE the government subsidies to prop up EV market?

Imagine what we can do in the Middle East if we take away their biggest bargaining chip. The amount of money we’d save not having to defend the peace in the Gulf peninsula. EVs will pay for itself if it even gains a 20% overall market share and we don’t even have to fight anyone for our gas to be cheap.

It’s short sighted to think that EV market is here for environmental protection only. Fossil fuel dependency has hampered and CRIPPLED our power and place in the world long enough for players like Russia and China to emerge as the next super power on the global stage. End fossil fuel dependency is the US, and given how much of it we produce (I believe US is the third largest producer)? And how much China depends on it still? We’d end this trade imbalance immediately.

Hard for me to fathom that, in the greatest country the world has ever seen, in the 21st century we are still entirely relying on fossil fuel as our primary mode of transportation. It’s like Steampunk but we’re stuck with gas instead.

It’s like me complaining to my brother that mortgage and cost of living in California is disproportionally high, and he suggest we move to a different state, like New Hampshire where they’ll incentivize you $10,000 to move, and my defense to that being “but I like living in California.”
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      05-20-2019, 07:52 PM   #68
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Comparing a 2-seat econo box to an M3 is a bit misaligned don't you think?
no, its precisely what we're talking about. its a direct comparison to saving money by cutting fuel costs. and its from someone who is doing it [me]. i calculated the numbers based on what my charger told me my car consumed the other day, multiplied by my current electrical rate. i calculated fuel costs from the actual premium gas costs from a station i filled up at last week. these are real world numbers and a realistic comparison.

i think the op just wants a tesla though, not trying to actually save money. in which case, he would not be saving any money.
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