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View Poll Results: Will Donald Trump be Impeached or will this blowback on Biden
Orange Trump bad. Trump gone. 84 32.43%
Trump Trump-umphant. 88 33.98%
Inclusive 18 6.95%
Biden C4'd to oblivion. 75 28.96%
Biden grows in strength and gets shot in the arm for nomination. 10 3.86%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 259. You may not vote on this poll

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      11-19-2019, 10:49 AM   #2641
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Originally Posted by tracer bullet View Post
I'm curious. When you say this, do you mean he definitely hasn't done anything wrong, at all? Or do you mean it more like - he's probably done something wrong, but it can't be proven?

I totally get the very realistic scenario that at the end of all this, nothing can be proven or will be done about it. And that folks benefit from Trump in office. Better than the alternatives. Or actually like the guy. All that makes sense. Well the last one is tough but OK.

I find it hard to believe how anyone can see this, and past actions, and think Trump's... I don't know how to say it - clean? Perfect? An angel? Never done anything wrong? It's all a sham?
No man is clean or an angel but Trump according to our legal system and our core values has not done anything that would result in a conviction in a court of law and deem him unfit for office and grounds for removal.
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      11-19-2019, 10:49 AM   #2642
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Originally Posted by pennsiveguy View Post
Casting conservatives, libertarians, and/or Trump supporters (so, anyone who doesn't agree with the liberal/progressive orthodoxy) as drooling, toothless oafs and bigots is the cowardly way to try to dismiss the arguments of said groups and their chosen candidates.

The ideas that form the core of the Progressive platform - identity politics, "Big Brother" stye big government, globalism, income redistribution - are distasteful to most people. So since their ideas can't compete in the marketplace, they switch their tactics to "Don't vote for him, he's a booger-faced poop-head."
This is literally what Trump's Presidency/ re-election campaign is based on. A few old ideas and if anyone says anything against them (even in his own party/supporters) resort to attack mode.
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      11-19-2019, 10:53 AM   #2643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tracer bullet View Post
I'm curious. When you say this, do you mean he definitely hasn't done anything wrong, at all? Or do you mean it more like - he's probably done something wrong, but it can't be proven?

I totally get the very realistic scenario that at the end of all this, nothing can be proven or will be done about it. And that folks benefit from Trump in office. Better than the alternatives. Or actually like the guy. All that makes sense. Well the last one is tough but OK.

I find it hard to believe how anyone can see this, and past actions, and think Trump's... I don't know how to say it - clean? Perfect? An angel? Never done anything wrong? It's all a sham?
The only part I don't get is why people are continuing to say it isn't provable. The quid pro quo has been admitted to by Trump's administration and by him himself. He/they/supporters see nothing wrong with it though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
No man is clean or an angel but Trump according to our legal system and our core values has not done anything that would result in a conviction in a court of law and deem him unfit for office and grounds for removal.
You seriously haven't read the constitution have you? You don't even need to have broken a law to be impeached (provable in a court of law anyway). If the people controlling the house think you broke the law etc and vote to remove is all that needs to be done.

I'm all for it being in a court of law by the way. Include it all unmask everything and Mulvaneys/Giuliani's and even Trumps admissions of what they wanted from Ukraine are admissible as well.

Last edited by minn19; 11-19-2019 at 11:00 AM..
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      11-19-2019, 10:53 AM   #2644
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
This is literally what Trump's Presidency/ re-election campaign is based on. A few old ideas and if anyone says anything against them (even in his own party/supporters) resort to attack mode.
I agree, for the most part. He's a shrewd marketer and has tapped into a vein of disillusionment and resentment. And he knows who the resentment can be channeled against for maximum effect and tactical advantage.
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      11-19-2019, 10:56 AM   #2645
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Originally Posted by pennsiveguy View Post
I agree, for the most part. He's a shrewd marketer and has tapped into a vein of disillusionment and resentment. And he knows who the resentment can be channeled against for maximum effect and tactical advantage.
It is finally starting to backfire though as can be seen by hardly anyone wants to work for him/with him anymore. Plus, if he isn't careful all of the Republicans that he is attacking via this process eventually are going to get sick of it and turn on him. Eventually they won't want to answer to a wanna be dictator for fear of being attacked for speaking their mind on anything that may upset the dear leader.
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      11-19-2019, 10:58 AM   #2646
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Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
A few questions for the self-proclaimed reasonable people pushing the impeachment of Trump. I've taken Real D off ignore to see his response. Those that are absolute loons (imho) I've left on my piss off list.

1. What is your end game plan? Trump ousted with Pence becoming Pres? Or is there a step 2 to get Pelosi in as Pres?

2. Say Trump is ousted, and "they" can't get Pence out before the term is up, who steps up on the Dem side with a reasonable agenda to be happy voting for? (remember, this question is only for reasonable trump haters)

3. Imagine that you're are not some financial elite, are you better off with the jobs creation that has taken place under Trump (whether his doing or not, there is some correlation factor) ? Will you be better off with the person in No. 2?

4. Are you the least concerned that a new play book has been created and a coalition of the MSM, the entertainment world (face most Americans are un-worldly ill informed dolts who get their opinions from late night comedy shows) and some fringe politicians change change an election that you are happy with?
IMO both sides are worried about the make up of the Supreme Court of the United States.

Ginsberg and Thomas are good candidates for stepping down within the next couple of years.

Trust me when I say that McConnell and the GOP are straining under the amount of water they're having to carry around for Trump.

The Dems have nothing to lose.
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      11-19-2019, 11:04 AM   #2647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
This is literally what Trump's Presidency/ re-election campaign is based on. A few old ideas and if anyone says anything against them (even in his own party/supporters) resort to attack mode.
Absolutely correct. Only one candidate goes around giving everyone demeaning nicknames.
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      11-19-2019, 11:07 AM   #2648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Absolutely correct. Only one candidate goes around giving everyone demeaning nicknames.
Playful names is much better then calling someone a racist or hitler and spending 4 years smearing him and his family and lining up false charge after false charge. Hell even right now during the impeachment the democrats are digging up other Avenue to try and impeach him due to the ukraine narrative falling apart.


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      11-19-2019, 11:14 AM   #2649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Absolutely correct. Only one candidate goes around giving everyone demeaning nicknames.
Playful names is much better then calling someone a racist or hitler and spending 4 years smearing him and his family and lining up false charge after false charge. Hell even right now during the impeachment the democrats and digging up other Avenue to try and impeach him due to the ukraine narrative falling apart.
One has to wonder where you're getting your information from, to think the Ukraine impeachment hearings are falling apart.

I'm watching the hearings, live, and although today's testimony is not as damning so far as other testimony, things are going very badly for Mr. Trump.
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      11-19-2019, 11:14 AM   #2650
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Playful names is much better then calling someone a racist or hitler and spending 4 years smearing him and his family and lining up false charge after false charge. Hell even right now during the impeachment the democrats and digging up other Avenue to try and impeach him due to the ukraine narrative falling apart.
You're right. Lindsey Graham did say Trump is a race-baiting xenophobe who doesn't represent the republican party. Have you had your head in the sand for the 8 years when Obama was called reprehensible names, many of which were overtly racist? Didn't our current president launch a campaign to discredit the birth certificate of then-president Obama? Do you not see this type of behavior as being beneath the prestige of the office of president of the United States? That's a representative you're proud of?
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      11-19-2019, 11:23 AM   #2651
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      11-19-2019, 11:23 AM   #2652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
No man is clean or an angel but Trump according to our legal system and our core values has not done anything that would result in a conviction in a court of law and deem him unfit for office and grounds for removal.
The White House attorneys and the GOP are willing to twist, bend, question, and mislead what is a crime that a sitting President could be punished for/removed from office. They have debated whether Trump could be taken into custody and removed from office if he killed someone for the hell of it. That is a frightening.

There is no doubt in my mind that if there were Nixon-like tapes out there on Trump (ya know, the ones that ultimately destroyed Nixon's presidency), the WH and/or it's attorney's would have buried them and/or would question and argue every little detail in the tapes to convince us that Trump did no wrong and his intent wasn't to break the law.

There's really no doubt now that Trump had a quid pro quo to strong arm the Ukraine into investigating the Biden's in return for US funding. The GOP and WH attorneys know this, but they are planting the seed that it's not illegal, unethical, etc. for Trump to do such a thing because it's not specifically written into law and "high crimes and misdemeanors" is a gray area that apparently is up for debate from every angle. The WH and GOP are really blurring the line between right and wrong. If a CEO did something like this, they would have been out a long time ago based on the number of people corroborating the same chain of events and timelines, changing of testimony, etc.

If Obama or any other democrat did this and party was protecting him the way the GOP is, I'd be just as pissed. The leaders in this country really lack a moral compass and the GOP is winning at that game right now. I'm not saying we're going the way of the rise of Hitler and Nazi party, but the similarities are there. It's very scary that leaders and citizens are willing to sell their souls for a party, not question the authority, etc. and how those with most misguided views somehow manage to get elected and wield the most power. It all very interesting and also very disappointing.
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      11-19-2019, 11:27 AM   #2653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Absolutely correct. Only one candidate goes around giving everyone demeaning nicknames.
I'll correct my own post. This is how Trump has lived his entire LIFE not just his Presidency or campaigns.
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      11-19-2019, 11:28 AM   #2654
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
The White House attorneys and the GOP are willing to twist, bend, question, and mislead what is a crime that a sitting President could be punished for/removed from office. They have debated whether Trump could be taken into custody and removed from office if he killed someone for the hell of it. That is a frightening.

There is no doubt in my mind that if there were Nixon-like tapes out there on Trump (ya know, the ones that ultimately destroyed Nixon's presidency), the WH and/or it's attorney's would have buried them and/or would question and argue every little detail in the tapes to convince us that Trump did no wrong and his intent wasn't to break the law.

There's really no doubt now that Trump had a quid pro quo to strong arm the Ukraine into investigating the Biden's in return for US funding. The GOP and WH attorneys know this, but they are planting the seed that it's not illegal, unethical, etc. for Trump to do such a thing because it's not specifically written into law and "high crimes and misdemeanors" is a gray area that apparently is up for debate from every angle. The WH and GOP are really blurring the line between right and wrong. If a CEO did something like this, they would have been out a long time ago based on the number of people corroborating the same chain of events and timelines, changing of testimony, etc.

If Obama or any other democrat did this and party was protecting him the way the GOP is, I'd be just as pissed. The leaders in this country really lack a moral compass and the GOP is winning at that game right now. I'm not saying we're going the way of the rise of Hitler and Nazi party, but the similarities are there. It's very scary that leaders and citizens are willing to sell their souls for a party, not question the authority, etc. and how those with most misguided views somehow manage to get elected and wield the most power. It all very interesting and also very disappointing.
As would the Trump supporters currently trying to protect Trump right now.

Last edited by minn19; 11-19-2019 at 11:40 AM..
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      11-19-2019, 11:39 AM   #2655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
You're right. Lindsey Graham did say Trump is a race-baiting xenophobe who doesn't represent the republican party. Have you had your head in the sand for the 8 years when Obama was called reprehensible names, many of which were overtly racist? Didn't our current president launch a campaign to discredit the birth certificate of then-president Obama? Do you not see this type of behavior as being beneath the prestige of the office of president of the United States? That's a representative you're proud of?
I'm an American and believe in free speech, I would hope of your an American as well you would hold the same values.
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      11-19-2019, 11:41 AM   #2656
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Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Absolutely correct. Only one candidate goes around giving everyone demeaning nicknames.
You mean like HRC's "basket of deplorables?" That kind of a demeaning nickname?
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      11-19-2019, 11:42 AM   #2657
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Like Trump or not....this whole thing is a tax payer money wasting circus. It's nothing but a witch Hunt that costing all of us our hard earned money.

Sickening.......
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      11-19-2019, 11:44 AM   #2658
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
I'm an American and believe in free speech, I would hope of your an American as well you would hold the same values.
Just because you CAN act like a petty baby, does not mean you should. The country should not be run like a WWE Raw episode. We are a real country with real values. Those values are being degraded at an alarming rate.
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      11-19-2019, 11:45 AM   #2659
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Originally Posted by pennsiveguy View Post
You mean like HRC's "basket of deplorables?" That kind of a demeaning nickname?
ugh, man, you got me good there. Just to keep score: 1 vs (everyone)

"Grab them by the p***y!"
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      11-19-2019, 11:48 AM   #2660
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Like Trump or not....this whole thing is a tax payer money wasting circus. It's nothing but a witch Hunt that costing all of us our hard earned money.

Sickening.......
I posted a while ago about Trump's record setting deficits in response to a post like this and heard nothing. This is a drop in the bucket compared to that, but yet this is the sickening waste of taxpayer money?
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      11-19-2019, 11:51 AM   #2661
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I posted a while ago about Trump's record setting deficits in response to a post like this and heard nothing. This is a drop in the bucket compared to that, but yet this is the sickening waste of taxpayer money?
The money is being spent on taller walls in order to combat the drugs that are brought in via tunnel, fishing boat, train, tractor trailer, and passenger vehicles.
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      11-19-2019, 11:53 AM   #2662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Just because you CAN act like a petty baby, does not mean you should. The country should not be run like a WWE Raw episode. We are a real country with real values. Those values are being degraded at an alarming rate.
I agree by the democrat party
Values under attack by them
Freedom of speech
Due Process
Innocent until proven guilty
Right to face your accusser
Right to remain silent
Seperation of power
I can go on if you like
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