Concern for Recycling/Battery Waste Overhyped ?

[RM7]

As startups on multiple continents take advantage of opportunity:

https://electricautonomy.ca/2023/03/...ycling-europe/

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by RM7

As startups on multiple continents take advantage of opportunity:

https://electricautonomy.ca/2023/03/...ycling-europe/

Li-Cycle’s Kingston plant opened in 2019 and now recycles 5,000 tonnes of batteries a year. The company has since opened three other recycling facilities in New York, Arizona and Alabama — each one another “spoke” in its two-stage “Spoke and Hub” vertically integrated recycling strategy. Combined, they have a capacity to process 51,000 tonnes of battery materials per year.


legitimate question; how many tons of batteries are manufactured each year?

Overall revenue is still modest, however. In fiscal 2022, ended Oct. 31, Li-Cycle posted $13.4 million in revenue.

Sounds like how we recycle plastics via our household garbage service, and much of it ends up in the landfill anyway because it doesn't make economic sense.

[Red Bread]

Plastic raw material is cheaper than recycled material, so aside from green cred, there’s no incentive to use it.

If the battery recyclers can break down used batteries into economically viable reclaimed materials for suppliers, it will be a self sustaining model.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Plastic raw material is cheaper than recycled material, so aside from green cred, there’s no incentive to use it.

If the battery recyclers can break down used batteries into economically viable reclaimed materials for suppliers, it will be a self sustaining model.

If.

That's my point with the plastic comparison, plastic really doesn't make much sense to recycle from an economics perspective. As history hs shown, when it stops making sense, that shit ends up in landfills.

Breaking down plastic is a straightforward process. Not so for the EV batteries.

I think we should recycle them, problem is they aren't well suited to recycling. Hence the reason the capacity to recycle is lagging so far behind the generation of batteries. Tesla alone makes half million tons of batteries at their current pace (over 1 million cars a year, each with a half-ton battery), and is rapidly expanding.

This story seems to highlight the low capacity of the system, and the high cost to process them.

We may well end up subsidizing that part of the process too.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Plastic raw material is cheaper than recycled material, so aside from green cred, there’s no incentive to use it.

If the battery recyclers can break down used batteries into economically viable reclaimed materials for suppliers, it will be a self sustaining model.

WTF do we do with this plastic is not the same as WTF can we get more lithium. Metals are the easiest and most widely recycled materials in the world. You are recovering an element and not a degrading molecule

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by RM7

WTF do we do with this plastic is not the same as WTF can we get more lithium.

Ofcourse they have a different process, but the economic factors still apply:

Just as economic factors can make the case for recycling batteries, they also make the case against it. Large fluctuations in the prices of raw battery materials, for example, cast uncertainty on the economics of recycling. In particular, the recent large drop in cobalt’s price raises questions about whether recycling Li-ion batteries or repurposing them is a good business choice compared with manufacturing new batteries with fresh materials. Basically, if the price of cobalt drops, recycled cobalt would struggle to compete with mined cobalt in terms of price, and manufacturers would choose mined material over recycled, forcing recyclers out of business.

Metals are the easiest and most widely recycled materials in the world. You are recovering an element and not a degrading molecule

Most of the batteries that do get recycled undergo a high-temperature melting-and-extraction, or smelting, process similar to ones used in the mining industry. Those operations, which are carried out in large commercial facilities—for example, in Asia, Europe, and Canada—are energy intensive. The plants are also costly to build and operate and require sophisticated equipment to treat harmful emissions generated by the smelting process. And despite the high costs, these plants don’t recover all valuable battery materials.

But very little recycling goes on today. In Australia, for example, only 2–3% of Li-ion batteries are collected and sent offshore for recycling, according to Naomi J. Boxall, an environmental scientist at Australia’s Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO). The recycling rates in the European Union and the US—less than 5%—aren’t much higher.

“There are many reasons why Li-ion battery recycling is not yet a universally well-established practice,” says Linda L. Gaines of Argonne National Laboratory. A specialist in materials and life-cycle analysis, Gaines says the reasons include technical constraints, economic barriers, logistic issues, and regulatory gaps.

https://cen.acs.org/materials/energy...lithium/97/i28

It's nice to see somebody has stepped up and built it, I'm concerned it's going to be viable and is clearly not yet scaled up to meet the supply of current and future stock.

The "build it and they will come" philosophy seems to not be working well on this part of the solution, and there might be a good reason why. Lithium batteries have been commercially available for over 30 years, and we still don't have a good process for recycling them. They aren't "easy".

Concern for Recycling/Battery Waste Overhyped

I disagree, and have quantifiable reasons for my belief.

[BGM-M3COMP]

He he he.

Getting closer to that 2035

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So a $375M loan from Uncle Sam to a Canadian company for a facility hub in the NY State rust belt. The company has generated $13.7M in revenue... against what costs?

More Federal investment for "build it and they will come" EV societal injection. As a US taxpayer I'm happy we are investing in foreign companies. US Fed investment tells me real business investors see no viability in the Li recycling industry.

Canada is the US biggest trading partner.
Canada invests a lot in America. Just one example: Bombardier has many US plants

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Point to an industry where the Canadian Govenment has forced upon its citizens then funds a US company to participate in it (in Canada), then it will be an equivalent situation.

If consumers see the advantage of buying an automobile that is more expensive and offers less utility and then an adjacent industry for recycling that automobile's toxic components develops all organically and funded by private capital investment then, I don't have a concern over borders.

The Canadian govt gives Ford, General Motors, Chrysler huge tax breaks, loans