All-new 2023 Nissan Z makes world debut

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by No Boost

Extra weight and inferior tires hamper it as compared to the BMW. Rubber is easily retrofitted....weight, not so much.

Kinda wish they had done a rolling race. Other than that no surprises. I've owned the engine in that Z - the same engine that was in my Q50 RS400. It's a great engine, just happened to be paired with a lazy transmission. It's just no match for the B58 paired with a ZF 8spd.

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by No Boost

Extra weight and inferior tires hamper it as compared to the BMW. Rubber is easily retrofitted....weight, not so much.

Its bullshit to hypotheses that putting on Michelin (PSS or PS4S) would change the results or reduced the gap. The S007 is actually a tad gripper in the dry than the 4S and the PSS on a stock Supra

Some people think either the Nissan engineers are dumb or the bean counters are too cheap ass and fitted a set of inferior tyres on the Z than the 10Y+ MPSS

The heavier weight and the smallish turbos on the Z instigated the loss on the straight...the stock Z engine doesn't have have much tuning potential given the smallish turbos...yeah you can probably do a 1-2 dyno run with a +50hp delta after a tune but on the third run the engine would heat soak and on the track it will go into limp mode after some hot laps. Nissan running the turbos to the max on a stock engine is a tell tale sign that the engine is not engineered for big power

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by No Boost

Extra weight and inferior tires hamper it as compared to the BMW. Rubber is easily retrofitted....weight, not so much.

Jason is great isn't he.

Looking at that, before they launched I take the Mustang every time, the best looker by far and it has 2+2 in a pinch.

This generation of Mustang is the most underrated car on the road i swear.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Kinda wish they had done a rolling race. Other than that no surprises. I've owned the engine in that Z - the same engine that was in my Q50 RS400. It's a great engine, just happened to be paired with a lazy transmission. It's just no match for the B58 paired with a ZF 8spd.

Tires wouldn't make a difference as it's not like the Z was gaining any ground at any point as the B58/ZF8 combo is proving to be one of the drivetrains in recent history. I believe BMW has a new version in the works that will even be more powerful so hard to imagine the Z being in the same ballpark unless Nissan makes some major hardware changes to the engine. Mach 1 Mustang is no joke though as it's basically a GT350 with the Coyote engine.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Tires wouldn't make a difference as it's not like the Z was gaining any ground at any point as the B58/ZF8 combo is proving to be one of the drivetrains in recent history. I believe BMW has a new version in the works that will even be more powerful so hard to imagine the Z being in the same ballpark unless Nissan makes some major hardware changes to the engine. Mach 1 Mustang is no joke though as it's basically a GT350 with the Coyote engine.

Did you mean to respond to somebody else? I didn't mention anything about tires

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Did you mean to respond to somebody else? I didn't mention anything about tires

Just a general response to another post that was made regarding inferior tires.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Just a general response to another post that was made regarding inferior tires.

Ah ok. Yeah I think traction is an issue more so because of a crappy launch control system than tires. But a rolling start would not only eliminate that issue, it would give us a sense of top end acceleration. I don't expect the result to change, but just curious to see how much of a difference it is.

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

Its bullshit to hypotheses that putting on Michelin (PSS or PS4S) would change the results or reduced the gap. The S007 is actually a tad gripper in the dry than the 4S and the PSS on a stock Supra

I'm just going off what Casimma said. Are the Potenza 007a really better than the PS4 in the dry?

[jmack]

That Hagerty video is phenomenal, great editing and no fluff.

Nissan really messed up with the pricing. Unless you're a diehard Nissan fan, why would anyone get it over the Supra when it's faster and more refined for more-or-less the same price. The manual Supra is quickly making it's way to the top of my next car list.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by No Boost

Extra weight and inferior tires hamper it as compared to the BMW. Rubber is easily retrofitted....weight, not so much.

DAMN, didn't know it was so BIG

What a shame!!!

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by jmack

That Hagerty video is phenomenal, great editing and no fluff.

Nissan really messed up with the pricing. Unless you're a diehard Nissan fan, why would anyone get it over the Supra when it's faster and more refined for more-or-less the same price. The manual Supra is quickly making it's way to the top of my next car list.

The sweet spot is the Sport for $39.9k. That undercuts the Supra by quite a lot. 4-banger Supra is $3k more and down on HP by a lot. Sport is a LSD and brake upgrade away from being great. Hopefully they add a track pack option for the Sport. The Perf pack brakes are just carry over Akebonos from 370Z, they are easy/cheap to get.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by M3WC

The sweet spot is the Sport for $39.9k. That undercuts the Supra by quite a lot. 4-banger Supra is $3k more and down on HP by a lot. Sport is a LSD and brake upgrade away from being great. Hopefully they add a track pack option for the Sport. The Perf pack brakes are just carry over Akebonos from 370Z, they are easy/cheap to get.

I also wish you didn't always have to go with the highest trim level on everything to be able to get an upgraded stereo, or the option for the upgraded stereo.

We were looking at trading in my lady's Mazda 3 on the new Frontier at the beginning of the year. You have to get the highest trim level, then ANOTHER package to get the nice stereo. A nice stereo is something that's important to both of us and I don't want to do a bunch of aftermarket stuff like I did when I was younger.

[Red Bread]

Clutch based LSD on performance is lame. Better to buy the base and install a real LSD.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Jason is great isn't he.

Looking at that, before they launched I take the Mustang every time, the best looker by far and it has 2+2 in a pinch.

This generation of Mustang is the most underrated car on the road i swear.

The video was really well done. I love the side view where they managed to capture the true acceleration movement.

The new gen Stangs are amazing performers, but those 10 speed autos suck during normal driving (laggy, confused) and like GM with its special Camaros, Ford outfits its special Stangs with massive, super sticky MPS Cup 2 rubber to generate the numbers. In the real world, you're replacing tires every 5K miles or less. Too me, that's a Band-Aid to fix the mass issue with those cars. And even years after the same model production, the build quality of the Stang is pretty damn poor, especially in a $53K+ Mach 1. How can they still not get panel gaps right?

[M3WC]

Savagegeese has a good deep dive video. They were very impressed with the car.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The video was really well done. I love the side view where they managed to capture the true acceleration movement.

The new gen Stangs are amazing performers, but those 10 speed autos suck during normal driving (laggy, confused) and like GM with its special Camaros, Ford outfits its special Stangs with massive, super sticky MPS Cup 2 rubber to generate the numbers. In the real world, you're replacing tires every 5K miles or less. Too me, that's a Band-Aid to fix the mass issue with those cars. And even years after the same model production, the build quality of the Stang is pretty damn poor, especially in a $53K+ Mach 1. How can they still not get panel gaps right?

Massive indeed.

• Front Wheels/Tires: 19” x 10.5”, 305/30R19 MPS Cup 2
• Rear Wheels/Tires: 19” x 11”, 315/30R19 MPS Cup 2

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Massive indeed.

• Front Wheels/Tires: 19” x 10.5”, 305/30R19 MPS Cup 2
• Rear Wheels/Tires: 19” x 11”, 315/30R19 MPS Cup 2

Yep, a set is around $1,400 plus install and taxes. Figure around $1,600-1,700 every 5K miles or every two track sessions. Then there's the brakes. 3,900lb cars are pretty hard on them and the Mach 1's pads and rotors aren't cheap.

One does have to wonder just how much better, handling and braking wise, the offerings from Porsche, BMW, Audi, Toyota, Nissan, and Subaru would be if they outfitted their more standard performance offerings with the wonder tires Ford and GM have done with numerous sub $60K pony car models.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Yep, a set is around $1,400 plus install and taxes. Figure around $1,600-1,700 every 5K miles or every two track sessions. Then there's the brakes. 3,900lb cars are pretty hard on them and the Mach 1's pads and rotors aren't cheap.

One does have to wonder just how much better, handling and braking wise, the offerings from Porsche, BMW, Audi, Toyota, Nissan, and Subaru would be if they outfitted their more standard performance offerings with the wonder tires Ford and GM have done with numerous sub $60K pony car models.

you'd definitely see alot of cars punching above their weight if that happened. But the suspension also needs to be tuned for it to take full advantage.

another thing to consider with all these 3900 + pound sporty cars and sedans is longevity on a track. Sure an F90 M5 or GTR can post a very good 1 lap flyer for the magazine. But they don't tell you that these boats start overcooking their brakes and shredding their tires trying to achieve these times. meanwhile a cayman is going to happily lap all day at 100+ degree outdoor temps.

no free lunches in this world. if you got a heavy car its going to eat through consumables faster than a lighter car. if you're engine makes alot of power, its going to generate more heat as a byproduct (especially if its forced induction)

[damnitBobby]

Didn't realize how small the Supra looks next to the Z.

Results are pretty much as expected from a dig. If they had conducted a rolling race I'm sure there would have been nothing in it between the Z and Supra, with the Mustang taking a small lead. I have a lot of respect for Mustangs but I could never own one.

It seems the pricing is practically the same between the Z and Supra when you equip them as close as possible. But I wouldn't say its a lopsided victory for the Supra. Hence Toyota's response with a 6MT. If they hadn't made that decision that alone would have swayed me to the Z.

[M3WC]

Z Perf or Supra would be a hard buy over M240i rwd when it arrives. If history repeats, it should come in at $46,500($2k less than the xdrive).

[nicholasn]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The video was really well done. I love the side view where they managed to capture the true acceleration movement.

The new gen Stangs are amazing performers, but those 10 speed autos suck during normal driving (laggy, confused) and like GM with its special Camaros, Ford outfits its special Stangs with massive, super sticky MPS Cup 2 rubber to generate the numbers. In the real world, you're replacing tires every 5K miles or less. Too me, that's a Band-Aid to fix the mass issue with those cars. And even years after the same model production, the build quality of the Stang is pretty damn poor, especially in a $53K+ Mach 1. How can they still not get panel gaps right?

and anyway why would anyone get a Mustang (or Z, or now Supra) with an automatic?

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by No Boost

I'm just going off what Casimma said. Are the Potenza 007a really better than the PS4 in the dry?

A tiny tad grippier...I have used them

Better than the stock PSS on the Supra so the Supra was already at a disadvantage running on PSS.

The Supra has better rear traction because of the 50:50 weight distribution. The Z is more front heavy so off the line traction will always be an issue. The Z will be good for drifting though.