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      12-27-2018, 03:05 PM   #639
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people buy the luxury watches to show off. real/fake doesnt matter, same reasoning

/thread

unless you are getting a very high end, hand made, multiple complications movement, they arent being bought for their horological significance.

that being said, i have many luxury watches cuz da hoes
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      12-27-2018, 03:07 PM   #640
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Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
people buy the luxury watches to show off. real/fake doesnt matter, same reasoning

/thread

unless you are getting a very high end, hand made, multiple complications movement, they arent being bought for their horological significance.

that being said, i have many luxury watches cuz da hoes
many points for the honesty
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      12-28-2018, 01:07 AM   #641
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I have bought a couple of replica watches and I must say none of them surpasses a modest Seiko 5 movement let alone Sellita or ETA .
For Rolex , none of them gets close by an inch at all even the highest pricest Chinese models because Rolex has its own tricks such as 904 L Grade Steel , Cerachrome and elusive crown logo at 6 o'clock . When I handle a Rolex watch I try to see that renowned logo .In a genuine Rolex model, you can't easily spot it whereas in replica Rolex you can easily see it there unless we talk about Milgauss models as they don't have crown at 6 o'clock .
I have an Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Off Shore replica ,albeit it is really hard to differentiate it from an authentic one I still see some defects on it such as shaky second hand past 9 o'clock marker , lack of movement embellishments ,wobbly accuracy .I have not weighed to see if it would match the weight of the original one it but scale doesn't lie at all
Buying a replica is pure waste of money and for that kinda of money you could buy a Citizen , Seiko variants at least these brands have their own characteristics and never let you down unless you push them beyond their limits
If I had same thoughts as today as then when I bought replica watches I would have never spent a dime on them
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      12-28-2018, 02:04 AM   #642
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Retarded, people throw a conniption over fake M/// badges and rice modifications yet are ok with fake shit watches.
Just like people that drive fake cars, if you wear fake watches, you're a poser. I have pride and respect in myself, I'm also confident enough in my own skin to represent myself with dignity in what ever I can afford whether it's a KIA or Seiko, and walk with my chin held high.

It's beyond me how any self respecting adult can walk around with fake counterfeit products. When I see a person wearing and using fake products, I think it says something about their character, which I immediately mistrust, sorry.

I'm not the bad guy or an uppity rich person, I've worked hard for what I can afford...why does a person need to buy a fake LV bag or Gucci belt, a fake AP...
I respect someone so much more if they have a real Coach bag or TAG Heuer watch versus a fake Channel or Patek.

A person with fakes will walk around leading a lot of people to believe it is authentic, that is a lie, a person that is involved in a lie is a liar, so common sense says I should act accordingly.

And as for quality, there is absolutely no comparison between a real LV bag a real Rolex or AP and a fake. If you think the quality is comparable, you are delusional and don't actually know why they charge so much. Sure, you pay a percentage for the name but there are details in craftsmanship that you also pay for.
A 340i with M badges and a tune is no where near the level of a real ground up M/// car.
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      01-03-2019, 05:43 AM   #643
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I dont have any fake watches but i dont judge othersfake watches...or fake M badges. But I wonder how people feel if we changed the subject to fake boobs... lol
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      01-03-2019, 05:39 PM   #644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
It may have something to do with Ball making BMW branded watches. (http://www.ballwatch.com/bmw/index.p...com_theproject) BMW also partners with Tourneau to have watches made.

Another popular watch brand, Breitling, has a partnership with Bentley, but then I'm not hanging out on Bentley forums either, so I don't know what goes on over there. (http://www.breitlingforbentley.com/en/)

In truth, I suppose all the major, upscale car brands have some sort of arrangement whereby the car brand licenses its name to watchmakers or vice versa. (http://www.beautifullife.info/fashio...s-auto-brands/) MB is partnered with Graham, which itself has obtained movements from La Joux Perret (http://www.lajouxperret.com/), which itself is a wholy-owned subsidiary of Citizen, which also owns Miyota. Graham has also received movements from Arnold & Son/Christopher Claret, most notably for the celestial tourbillion watch both companies produced some years back. (The A&S version is called the Grand Moon Tourbillion -- http://www.watchtime.com/watch-datab...llon/rose-gold -- and got a lot less press, but A&S does make it's own movements and Graham does not.)

Why the connection? Well, it's another revenue source. There is a lot of similarity in how cars and pricey watches are marketed and there's a lot of similarity in the substance of both products. Namely that both premium brand cars and premium brand watches don't, better than the more typical, less expensive alternatives, really do anything the typical user needs the product to do. To that end, there's a lot of similarity and synergy in their respective business models.

All the best.
I think Oris had a deal with BMW - specifically the Williams Racing team, several years ago, too.
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      01-03-2019, 06:04 PM   #645
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Originally Posted by Fritzer View Post
Oh I do relatively frequently. Many of the factories, Noob, JF, ZF are not as you think though. They certainly fall into the more hole in the wall side of things compared to other "factories". The actual factories in China are the ones busting out the DHGate, street market Rolexs. Relatively to the other replica markets, the high-end Rolex replicas you and I see on the websites we visit are in a very small market, most people in the market for a Replica would never spend $400++ for a replica watch.

With the replacement of genuine parts, it is hit or miss. On some you can, some you can't. It depends on who manufactured the replica. Many have made successful FrankenWatches but there are many discrepancies. The replicas are not quite exact in terms of dimensions, even the highest priced ones. The 904L steel they allegedly use is very iffy, it is different then 316L but I would say the manufacturing standards they use in replica factories are not advanced enough to produce actual 904L. Close in feel and finish, but not durability. The ceramic is quite close, but again not similar in the unseen variables. However for what you get when buying, say, a brand new Noob Submariner - you are getting great value in a watch regardless.

I would also disagree with the fact you stated where a Rolex is up-marked from $1,000 to $7,500. I know for a fact that Rolex has a huge ego with their brand and understand the brand value, but I wouldn't say that a watch made with the same tolerances and engineering as a Submariner without the brand would be $1,000 - that is a little ridiculous.

While I do agree in part with the luxury brand price gouging, I also disagree with some other points you made. For example; I know someone who bought a "Chanel" watch recently, it has a freaking $400 ETA movement and they spent $8k on it. That is true luxury tax, and frankly just plain stupid. No one who buys into luxury goods like that gives a shit about horology.
Noob factory has some nice watches as do some of the others. They're all pretty close. I did a bit of a replica and gen comparison before with the same watch. With a loupe, the replica is obvious under inspection but looking at it normally in hand, it's almost impossible to tell unless you know the specific tells of that replica version.

I own a Submariner and I don't think it's worth $7500... even though I paid as much for it. I like the watch and everything is good. But build quality wise, it's about the same as my Tudor Black Bay and that costs less than 1/2 the price.

There's definitely a Rolex tax just because of the name. Other watch brands like "Chanel" like you say... they may be expensive when new, but the price drops like a rock for a used one (unless it has precious stones/gold). Rolex does not.
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      01-07-2019, 10:49 AM   #646
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Originally Posted by Z K View Post
I own a Submariner and I don't think it's worth $7500... even though I paid as much for it. I like the watch and everything is good. But build quality wise, it's about the same as my Tudor Black Bay and that costs less than 1/2 the price.
I held a Tudor BB S&G and I thought it felt very - not worth the price. Especially considering in that same visit to the dealers I held an 18kt YG Maxi-Case Submariner. Not just talking about weight, but just the overall feel of the watch felt quite different to me in the functions and build quality. (Funny fact, the Tudor S&G doesn't even have solid 18kt centre-links, they are "gold-capped".)

Which reference is your Submariner? Considering you said $7,500 I would guess it would be a Maxi-Case? To be completely honest I don't think I would ever buy one of those because of those huge shoulders, I love the classic Submariner case much better.(i.e. 14060, 16610, 5512/13) Same goes with the GMT, oh man I read an article where some guy went and bought a vintage Pepsi and Coke GMT Master. Those are beautiful pieces!!
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      01-07-2019, 11:06 AM   #647
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Originally Posted by Fritzer View Post
I held a Tudor BB S&G and I thought it felt very - not worth the price. Especially considering in that same visit to the dealers I held an 18kt YG Maxi-Case Submariner. Not just talking about weight, but just the overall feel of the watch felt quite different to me in the functions and build quality. (Funny fact, the Tudor S&G doesn't even have solid 18kt centre-links, they are "gold-capped".)

Which reference is your Submariner? Considering you said $7,500 I would guess it would be a Maxi-Case? To be completely honest I don't think I would ever buy one of those because of those huge shoulders, I love the classic Submariner case much better.(i.e. 14060, 16610, 5512/13) Same goes with the GMT, oh man I read an article where some guy went and bought a vintage Pepsi and Coke GMT Master. Those are beautiful pieces!!
I have a 114060, it is the current style with the ceramic bezel... I do actually like the larger case as it feels more substantial. I like the style of the older Submariners but the bracelet and clasp is so cheap and flimsy. I like the solid links and adjustable clasp on the newer Sub.

A lot of those details translate directly to the Tudor. It has a larger case but it has a more modern appearance than the Sub - I have the Black Bay with a blue bezel and black dial. I think it looks much more modern than the Rolex Sub while still paying homage to the old Tudor Subs of old.

I'm not a fan of gold on watches... I'd love a Batman GMT but I don't think it's worth the 40% more over a Sub. I also like my no date in that it looks more balanced without the date taking up one side of the dial.
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      01-07-2019, 03:08 PM   #648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
I have a 114060, it is the current style with the ceramic bezel... I do actually like the larger case as it feels more substantial. I like the style of the older Submariners but the bracelet and clasp is so cheap and flimsy. I like the solid links and adjustable clasp on the newer Sub.

A lot of those details translate directly to the Tudor. It has a larger case but it has a more modern appearance than the Sub - I have the Black Bay with a blue bezel and black dial. I think it looks much more modern than the Rolex Sub while still paying homage to the old Tudor Subs of old.

I'm not a fan of gold on watches... I'd love a Batman GMT but I don't think it's worth the 40% more over a Sub. I also like my no date in that it looks more balanced without the date taking up one side of the dial.
Old case design + glidelock bracelet retrofit is the best in my opinion. I totally get the hefty and substantial feel the maxi-case gives too. It is quite nice. Just very bulky and seems to scream for attention compared to the older ones even though they are nearly the same size. Funny what small design cues can do. It looks great and I have a wrist that can definitely accommodate it but something about the older cases draws me to them. Maybe it's more of an older, classic look.

Even though I really do love what Tudor has been doing with the Black Bay line, the high case irks me a tad. Once the BB58s come down in price premium and the wait lists go away it will be the first on my list to purchase! Or I might hold out and see if they come out with a BB58 without all the gold accents.

+1 for the No Date as well, love that balanced look. Been looking for a mint 14060 made in late 90s but they're hard to come by at a reasonable price. The new Pepsi GMT in steel is cool, but again my preference for old case I'm going to wait until the older ones come down from the ~$10k region. I will probably get a Coke bezel but the Pepsi is just so classic!!
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      01-07-2019, 03:40 PM   #649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritzer View Post
Old case design + glidelock bracelet retrofit is the best in my opinion. I totally get the hefty and substantial feel the maxi-case gives too. It is quite nice. Just very bulky and seems to scream for attention compared to the older ones even though they are nearly the same size. Funny what small design cues can do. It looks great and I have a wrist that can definitely accommodate it but something about the older cases draws me to them. Maybe it's more of an older, classic look.
I wasn't aware this was an option! You can fit a glidelock bracelet to an older 5 digit Sub?
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      01-07-2019, 04:29 PM   #650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritzer View Post
I held a Tudor BB S&G and I thought it felt very - not worth the price. Especially considering in that same visit to the dealers I held an 18kt YG Maxi-Case Submariner. Not just talking about weight, but just the overall feel of the watch felt quite different to me in the functions and build quality. (Funny fact, the Tudor S&G doesn't even have solid 18kt centre-links, they are "gold-capped".)

Which reference is your Submariner? Considering you said $7,500 I would guess it would be a Maxi-Case? To be completely honest I don't think I would ever buy one of those because of those huge shoulders, I love the classic Submariner case much better.(i.e. 14060, 16610, 5512/13) Same goes with the GMT, oh man I read an article where some guy went and bought a vintage Pepsi and Coke GMT Master. Those are beautiful pieces!!
the difference in price on that S&G though...

My S&G cost me a little over $3k where a 116613LN cost me alittle over $10k. Was the 116613 $7k more in terms of quality and materials? Definitely not, which is why i still have the S&G and not the other.

I go back and forth on the 16610 vs 116610 often. I still find myself wearing my 6 digit more often than my 5 digit though. But I have been liking bigger watches as of late so that is why.
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      01-07-2019, 04:30 PM   #651
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Quote:
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I wasn't aware this was an option! You can fit a glidelock bracelet to an older 5 digit Sub?
you can fit it on any of the 20mm bracelets. 5 digit sub/gmt, 6 digit gmt, etc. Just need to polish the center on the GMTs
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      01-07-2019, 04:41 PM   #652
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you can fit it on any of the 20mm bracelets. 5 digit sub/gmt, 6 digit gmt, etc. Just need to polish the center on the GMTs
That is awesome! I have never seen one of these retrofits before. I didn't think it would work because of the different end links with different curve of the case or something.
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      01-07-2019, 04:45 PM   #653
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That is awesome! I have never seen one of these retrofits before. I didn't think it would work because of the different end links with different curve of the case or something.
i should have clarified, you can fit the clasp* on any of the 20mm bracelets. I havent tried a new bracelet on an old model yet.
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      01-07-2019, 05:05 PM   #654
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i should have clarified, you can fit the clasp* on any of the 20mm bracelets. I havent tried a new bracelet on an old model yet.
Ahh ok... I guess it's still a big update for the stamped metal clasp of the older ones. It'd be nice with the whole bracelet if that was possible.
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      01-07-2019, 06:04 PM   #655
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My S&G cost me a little over $3k where a 116613LN cost me alittle over $10k. Was the 116613 $7k more in terms of quality and materials? Definitely not, which is why i still have the S&G and not the other.
Well I would say that the improvement in movement and build quality would be worth about $3,000. Then keep in mind the fact that the S&G has gold capped parts instead of solid 18kt like the 116613. After all that there is some brand tax left over but I still think that it is not as much as it would seem.
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      01-07-2019, 06:05 PM   #656
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I wasn't aware this was an option! You can fit a glidelock bracelet to an older 5 digit Sub?
Yes, I have seen some people on Rolex forums do it. Main thing is the actual price of the bracelet.
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      01-07-2019, 06:11 PM   #657
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I wore fake Rolexes that I bought in Thailand when I was a teenager.

As soon as I could afford one I bought a real Rolex - and when I did, I chose the Explorer I so the only people who would recognize it were other watch people.

I'm convinced that Rolex lets the fake market thrive as advertising for them - so long as the fakes remain unreliable. (Why don't you ever see a fake submariner with a quartz movement, or hands and hour markers that stay connected for more than six months)

I have no problem with fake watches, nor do I have a problem with people saying "Hey man, nice Rolex; is it real?"

I know others don't feel the same.
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      01-07-2019, 11:37 PM   #658
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Buy what you want and what you can afford. Be happy.
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      01-08-2019, 09:06 AM   #659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritzer View Post
Well I would say that the improvement in movement and build quality would be worth about $3,000. Then keep in mind the fact that the S&G has gold capped parts instead of solid 18kt like the 116613. After all that there is some brand tax left over but I still think that it is not as much as it would seem.
the 116613 has ~30-35 grams of gold in it. the 116610 ~155 grams, the 116613 ~170grams.

market value, that is ~$1500 of gold.

the new tudor inhouse movement is extremely similar to the new 3200 series movements of Rolex (and btw, is designed and built by rolex) so that is a wash imo. The quality of both is similar, and you could make the argument the tudor movement is better since the 116613 uses the 30+ year old 3135.

the difference in gold used is ~10-15 grams, ~$650, between the S&G and the 116613.

so... $7k difference for roughly $650 grams of gold, different styling, similar movement and the rolex name.

Dont get me wrong, I have a couple rolex, and have at one point owned nearly every sport model rolex, including two tones, but lets not kid ourselves and pretend like they arent 5k watches dressed up in a 10k name.
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      01-08-2019, 11:36 AM   #660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xQx View Post
I wore fake Rolexes that I bought in Thailand when I was a teenager.

As soon as I could afford one I bought a real Rolex - and when I did, I chose the Explorer I so the only people who would recognize it were other watch people.

I'm convinced that Rolex lets the fake market thrive as advertising for them - so long as the fakes remain unreliable. (Why don't you ever see a fake submariner with a quartz movement, or hands and hour markers that stay connected for more than six months)

I have no problem with fake watches, nor do I have a problem with people saying "Hey man, nice Rolex; is it real?"

I know others don't feel the same.
While the vast majority of fake watches are those sold for cheap on street markets, there are high quality fakes. Most of these are very reliable and run for a long time.

I have one from 6 years ago and it's still running fine. I recently had it serviced because the power reserve was getting low. A bit of cleaning, lube and regulation and it's like new again.

I do agree that the cheap watches that are sold on street markets are often free marketing for Rolex. People get one and when it breaks, they want the real one.
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