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      12-09-2018, 12:12 PM   #1123
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Originally Posted by anglo View Post
He wonít make it to the end of summer
He wonít make it to the primaries.
He wonít make it to the Debates.
He wonít make it to the Election.
He has no path to 270.
He colluded with Russia.
We will Impeach him.
All Failed Liberal predictions.
Trump committed treason!
Trump colluded with Russia!
Trump may have colluded with Russia!
Trump obstructed justice!
Trump thought about obstructing justice!
Trump committed a campaign finance violation!
etc.
etc.
etc.
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      12-09-2018, 12:17 PM   #1124
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Question for you guys who support Trump and feel the Mueller investigation has strayed well beyond its confines and is now targeting Trump for anything and everything...Let's say Mueller and his team come up with something. Something irrefutable and big, but unrelated to Russia. Massive tax fraud, money laundering, racketeering, etc. I'm not talking jay-walking, or returning his library books late. I'm talking Federal crimes in the 10s of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars, but again, unrelated to Russia. What's your response? Does he deserve a pass because the investigation was supposed to target Russia and the crimes Mueller discovered are not in that scope?

Honest question there. Not trying to corner anyone, just looking to understand a perspective that I think may differ from mine.
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      12-09-2018, 12:52 PM   #1125
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If trump committed High Crimes and Misdemeanors . He could be tried by the senate. I can't see him convicted for anything that did not happen while he is president. That is not what the senate does. And he is not gonna get tried for those things while president.

When he retires its gonna be 100% impossible to convict him of anything. There will be one person on the jury that will not vote guilty. This would hold true for any President. And it won't get that far. Trump will have enough and better lawyers than the Feds.
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      12-09-2018, 01:08 PM   #1126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
Question for you guys who support Trump and feel the Mueller investigation has strayed well beyond its confines and is now targeting Trump for anything and everything...Let's say Mueller and his team come up with something. Something irrefutable and big, but unrelated to Russia. Massive tax fraud, money laundering, racketeering, etc. I'm not talking jay-walking, or returning his library books late. I'm talking Federal crimes in the 10s of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars, but again, unrelated to Russia. What's your response? Does he deserve a pass because the investigation was supposed to target Russia and the crimes Mueller discovered are not in that scope?

Honest question there. Not trying to corner anyone, just looking to understand a perspective that I think may differ from mine.
Good question, I didn't vote for trump, and at this point I don't plan to vote for him next time either, but I do find myself defending him a lot.

If it was a massive event and they had the legal right to do something about it, I would be all for it. I would also hold this as a precedent and would hope they would do this to other politicians as well. Hillarys investigations didn't seem to leave the original scope even though there was suspicion of other wrong doings.
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      12-09-2018, 01:31 PM   #1127
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Originally Posted by Herdalum View Post
And do you really not know why Trump canít be impeached for pardoning someone?
Enlighten me. In the meantime:

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...nd-convictable
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      12-09-2018, 01:37 PM   #1128
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Originally Posted by wdb View Post
Op-ed

"By Brent Budowsky, opinion contributor ó 11/28/18 01:30 PM EST
The views expressed by contributors are their own and not the view of The Hill"
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      12-09-2018, 02:02 PM   #1129
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Originally Posted by wdb View Post
Lol, you post someone’s opinion as proof of something? Obviously you seek your information in the wrong places.

Anyway, putting that aside, I will enlighten you. To impeach Trump, the House would have to draw up articles of impeachment stating the high crimes or misdemeanors committed by him. The President has unlimited power granted to him by the Constitution to pardon anybody for anything, there really are no limits as the Supreme Court put it in an 1866 decision involving a former Confederate senator, Ex Parte Garland... they opined at that time the power “is unlimited.” Therefore, Congress has no authority to impeach a President for merely exercising his right under the Constitution to pardon anyone he chooses. If they attempted that, it would be struck down by the SCOTUS. Hope this helps
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      12-09-2018, 02:07 PM   #1130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
If trump committed High Crimes and Misdemeanors . He could be tried by the senate. I can't see him convicted for anything that did not happen while he is president. That is not what the senate does. And he is not gonna get tried for those things while president.

When he retires its gonna be 100% impossible to convict him of anything. There will be one person on the jury that will not vote guilty. This would hold true for any President. And it won't get that far. Trump will have enough and better lawyers than the Feds.
Unfortunately, he will also have Trump on his side. Testifying will be a problem
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      12-09-2018, 02:19 PM   #1131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
Question for you guys who support Trump and feel the Mueller investigation has strayed well beyond its confines and is now targeting Trump for anything and everything...Let's say Mueller and his team come up with something. Something irrefutable and big, but unrelated to Russia. Massive tax fraud, money laundering, racketeering, etc. I'm not talking jay-walking, or returning his library books late. I'm talking Federal crimes in the 10s of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars, but again, unrelated to Russia. What's your response? Does he deserve a pass because the investigation was supposed to target Russia and the crimes Mueller discovered are not in that scope?

Honest question there. Not trying to corner anyone, just looking to understand a perspective that I think may differ from mine.
IF these crimes were to be discovered, then I'd be a lean towards jail.
However, and this is just my gut talking, if Trump has killed a mess of cats that could wind himself in jail if discovered, why hasn't he terminated Mueller?
Seems that dealing with a mob a screaming dems and a few repubs would be a lot more digestible than prison.
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      12-09-2018, 02:23 PM   #1132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Op-ed

"By Brent Budowsky, opinion contributor ó 11/28/18 01:30 PM EST
The views expressed by contributors are their own and not the view of The Hill"
Budow despises Trump. I mean he's as big of a Trump hating Democrat as they come. His insights are all over the place.

Out.

gO CoWbOyS...HiCcUp.
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      12-09-2018, 02:40 PM   #1133
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It's all opinion until charges are filed, and none of us is any position to know what or when. Same holds for the experts -- at least some of whom do know a lot more than we do about stuff like the law as it pertains to these topics. They're stating their opinions. I suppose you can use that as a reason to ignore them. That's up to you.
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      12-09-2018, 02:42 PM   #1134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
However, and this is just my gut talking, if Trump has killed a mess of cats that could wind himself in jail if discovered, why hasn't he terminated Mueller?
Look where that got Nixon. Congress would double down. Smarter for him to ride it out and see what cards get played.
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      12-09-2018, 02:45 PM   #1135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
It's all opinion until charges are filed, and none of us is any position to know what or when. Same holds for the experts -- at least some of whom do know a lot more than we do about stuff like the law as it pertains to these topics. They're stating their opinions. I suppose you can use that as a reason to ignore them. That's up to you.
Were you responding to my response to you? Sounded like it but you didn’t really say. If not, ignore what I’m about to say. If so, my response is I can explain it for you, and did, but I can’t understand it for you. What I explained to you was not opinion, It was from the Constitution plus a ruling by the Supreme Court. Do you not even understand this? Nevermind, that was rhetorical, you’ve already shown you do not. Fine, I tried. Whew...
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      12-09-2018, 02:58 PM   #1136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
IF these crimes were to be discovered, then I'd be a lean towards jail.
However, and this is just my gut talking, if Trump has killed a mess of cats that could wind himself in jail if discovered, why hasn't he terminated Mueller?
Seems that dealing with a mob a screaming dems and a few repubs would be a lot more digestible than prison.
i think that trump has long thought that the rules don't apply to him. i could see him thinking he's going to get away with it as he has in the past. also, pardoning manafort would be an escalation.

what i think it all comes down to is power. at the present he has a lot and he has the support of senate republicans. if nothing else comes out he keeps their support and weathers the storm. if things get worse and it looks like his problems are making re-election more difficult for senate republicans, then they will take him down. right now he's basically doing mcconnell's biding - he hampers that then he's toast.
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      12-09-2018, 04:30 PM   #1137
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... and he has the support of senate republicans.
That's the lynchpin right there. Senate pubs did okay in the 2018 election cycle. So, two cheers for Trump. But I still think there is a simmering resentment for Trump in that corner, just waiting for its chance to come to a boil.
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      12-09-2018, 10:26 PM   #1138
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https://apple.news/AexjtZKvERkqbuXhN9C9T4A
Conspiracy theorist sues Mueller alleging illegal leaks and surveillance
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      12-09-2018, 10:43 PM   #1139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
Question for you guys who support Trump and feel the Mueller investigation has strayed well beyond its confines and is now targeting Trump for anything and everything...Let's say Mueller and his team come up with something. Something irrefutable and big, but unrelated to Russia. Massive tax fraud, money laundering, racketeering, etc. I'm not talking jay-walking, or returning his library books late. I'm talking Federal crimes in the 10s of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars, but again, unrelated to Russia. What's your response? Does he deserve a pass because the investigation was supposed to target Russia and the crimes Mueller discovered are not in that scope?

Honest question there. Not trying to corner anyone, just looking to understand a perspective that I think may differ from mine.
in that case it's fair game on former presidents, and even politicians, to be investigated for their financial dealings in equal measure

someone needs to explain how you can hold public office, and leave with 8 figure bank accounts
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      12-10-2018, 06:02 AM   #1140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
If trump committed High Crimes and Misdemeanors . He could be tried by the senate. I can't see him convicted for anything that did not happen while he is president. That is not what the senate does. And he is not gonna get tried for those things while president.

When he retires its gonna be 100% impossible to convict him of anything. There will be one person on the jury that will not vote guilty. This would hold true for any President. And it won't get that far. Trump will have enough and better lawyers than the Feds.

Where do you get this notion? Is there some legislation or precedent that limits impeachment to things that happened after inauguration only?
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      12-10-2018, 06:07 AM   #1141
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Originally Posted by domino_z View Post
in that case it's fair game on former presidents, and even politicians, to be investigated for their financial dealings in equal measure

someone needs to explain how you can hold public office, and leave with 8 figure bank accounts

How is it not already? Politicians are investigated for crimes - financial and otherwise - all the time. A sitting President is the only special case.

A relatively recent example: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/08/n...r-trading.html
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      12-10-2018, 06:40 AM   #1142
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Trump won fair and square, why can't the libs accept the will of the People?
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      12-10-2018, 06:45 AM   #1143
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I am curious on what people think the Russians did to get Trump the victory. It doesn't seem like anyone had a problem on election day, the democrats were sure Hillary was going to win.

So what happened after election day that everyone started blaming the Russians? Are we thinking Russians hacked the voting machines to get Trump the victory?
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      12-10-2018, 06:46 AM   #1144
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I am curious on what people think the Russians did to get Trump the victory. It doesn't seem like anyone had a problem on election day, the democrats were sure Hillary was going to win.

So what happened after election day that everyone started blaming the Russians? Are we thinking Russians hacked the voting machines to get Trump the victory?
Yup
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