new contest method discussion

[Chewy734]

discuss.






Well, I guess I can start with my own thoughts.

If there's another website that we can use to do this, that would be great, but I'm not familiar with flickr, etc, so someone who's a pro with those sites can chime in.

Discussion:
Someone can post a thread here on the forums with a description of the contest, and a link to the submissions page. BSing, discussing, etc can be done here.

Submission:
A page which includes the description of the contest. A form where you enter your name, forum nickname, title, and photo. It'll check to make sure you meet the requirements (ie. you have a title, a forum nickname, it's 800 px in any direction max, etc). It'll also end on time by itself, and automatically generate a voting page.

Voting:
Multiple pages which makes it easier to vote. You enter by entering your forum name. You are shown a page of all photos. You give it a star value or a number 1-10 for each one. You can add additional comments about each photo as well. Essentially you'll rate each photo. At the end, it'll show you a tally of all votes up to that point (either average or sum to determine the winner). You can't view the # of votes each photo has gotten until after you vote. At the end of voting, a simple page showing the results publicly, with voters identified, and the comments for each photo displayed (can by anonymous if we want).

I dunno, that's kinda what I envision for the future. We can make it easy to submit new contests, etc. Maybe I'm over complicating things, but this is something a little php code with a mysql backend can easily solve.

Any thoughts?

[adrean8j]

No thoughts at the moment as its late here (half past midnight)...but posting anyway to subscribe...LOL

[Mr Tonka]

I personally think it would be simple enough to just have one thread. After all this is just a for fun contest. So an additional rule could be that only photo entries are able to be posted in the submission thread. You can comment, discuss, etc... but no quoting people's submissions. That way there will only be one photo of each submission in the thread and every photo in the thread is a submission.

Also; No name, wrong size, no entry. Better luck next time. I've received 2 reminders to add a name to my submission and was very appreciative. However if i didn't get any reminders, i wouldn't have needed the second one.

I'm from the Keep It Simple camp and feel there is no need to reinvent the wheel when it's worked well for so long. The most current contest is an anomaly of sorts. Should there be another contest with as much discussion and examples are needed; who ever feels the need to post an example can start a discussion thread to parallel the submission thread.

[ShopVac]

How about a simple rule...like runner up (cause they should get something) pics the next topic.

Seriously, I'm really for a way to submit the photos, some forums create upload links for this, or maybe we create a flicker account for this. I just think that everyone should see all the photos once the voting starts. My .02¢

[The1]

I've seen on other sites a submission only thread where no comments are allowed and it keeps things nice and clean and easy to sort through.

I've also seen one where everyone submits their picture to the organizer, then the organizer does the pictures in one thread keeping it all under control.

I however think this is the easiest way at the moment for the general public as having 2 threads might be confusing for first time entrants and as a result be discouraging.

[Chewy734]

I hate to resurrect this thread, but it seems like we may need to improve our current contest method in some way. And it would be nice if you guys can voice your opinions. I am in no way responsible for past or future contests, but I'd like to improve the way they are done. Plus, for whatever reason (which I don't mind), I seem to hear a lot of bitching and moaning from some people here.

Let me start by saying that I've received some positive and negative feedback on how these contests are run. I'm glad some people are taking these contests somewhat seriously. One thing to keep in mind is that these contests are for fun, they have no prizes (except perhaps more work for the contest winners ), and are meant to improve our photographing skills.

That being said, I'm not sure that these contests are really helping me improve my skills. Maybe for others they are? Yeah, I'm trying to take better photos, but many times I'm recycling old ones, or re-editing ones from my archive. Also, we aren't getting any feedback (besides votes) how we can improve our photos. Yeah, I know... there's another thread for that. But still, I feel like that element is lacking.

The whole creating the voting thread is a giant pain in the ass (as many of you know). The forum doesn't allow us the flexibility in options that we might want, and once the thread is up, it's impossible to make changes.

I think we all agree that the votes should not be anonymous. It'll help weed out the votes where people vote for their own photos (which I think should be against the rules at this point, besides just being frowned upon), plus the potential of random people just voting... which brings me to my next point. We all understand this is for fun, no one's really winning anything, etc. But, I feel like leaving the voting to the general public might be a bit... annoying (for lack of a better word). For example, voting for your friends is fine if the photo is good, but otherwise it's not cool. And, as usual, it comes with the caveat on what you define as being "good"... blah blah blah. I'm not sure how to mitigate that. Perhaps only have the people who submitted a photo be allowed to vote?

Anyways, I know a lot of other people have issues with the current method of voting... Voice them here so we can improve it!

[UdubBadger]

I've spoken to some people about trying a new voting format which would loosely go something like this...

we crown 1st 2nd and 3rd places each contest and then let the 1st place winner choose a theme and keep all the duties they have always had of making the threads and everything. Then after submission period closes, the 3 people would choose a panel of 3 new winners by voting amongst themselves (choosing a 1st 2nd and 3rd place). then we do a 24hr (public) voting round with 1 vote only for one of the 3 photos chosen from the "panel of judges".

effectively this would mean:
-faster contest turn around - the judges all vote in 1 day and then the public round is only 24 hrs so max of 2 days voting time till a winner is crowned.
-winners of contests actually win more than just more work. you have been chosen by your peers as someone who can construct a quality photo so that gives you the honor of judging others photos with the good eye you possess.
-more people feel validated in being recognized for their work in a contest. many times
there are 4 or 5 photos that could easily be winners.
-most importantly, keeps the voting consistent and doesn't turn the contest into whos friends with whom.


thoughts?

[infinitekidM2C]

multiple voting must be eradicated!...or just change to 3 votes..5pts for 1st, 3 for second, 1 for third..idk!

[UdubBadger]

probably but then you risk having 15 submitted photos all with only 1 vote...

we need to make sure we are limited the number of photos voted on with only 1 vote to be effective. or we could "nationally televise" our contests for max # of voters but obviously the limiting the photos we vote on is much easier.

[Chewy734]

I like it Badger... the only problem I foresee is the unavailability of the top 3 to quickly vote. And what if they can't reach a consensus? How would that be done, via PM or another thread, or what?

[UdubBadger]

all they need to do is pick 1 photo each for us to vote on - no repeats. (this is a bit different than what we spoke about previously). Then the "group" gets to pick 1 of 3 photos as a the winner but all 3 photos that the judges picked will be part of the judging panel for the next contest.

[Chewy734]

I see. What do you guys think?

[scollins]

I've never quite understood the stigma about voting for your own submission in a multiple choice vote. I wouldn't submit a photo if I didn't think it was the best possible shot according to the rules of the competition, so why wouldn't I vote for it? Even in a single vote only contest, if my own submission is clearly the best choice (rarely happens with my skills....), why shouldn't I be able to vote for it? I'm sure some would just vote for their own photo no matter what, but the core group here seems to be able to choose the best selections.


Ideally, a format that requires voters to rank multiple submissions from 1 to 10 (or however many entries their are), without allowing duplicate scores, would be ideal. The amount of points assigned is equal to the inverse of the total entries.

A 10 entry example: Each #1 vote is worth 10 points, and each #10 vote is worth 1 point. Most points wins.


I think the percocet is interfering with my ability to communicate the idea as clearly as possible.... (stupid wisdom tooth....)

[UdubBadger]

problem is how do you set that kind of voting system up?

[The1]

I don't really see why we are worried to the level that we are. The capabilities of the forum and what we can do with it are basically what we are doing, we are pretty limited by choice.

all it comes down to is if you want single or multiple votes. And at the level of professional type competition we are holding, it may as well be open to everyone to vote, it's not like anyone ever reads the rules that are going to say "votes are only allowed by those who submitted photos" people are going to come in and see a pole and vote, not read anything.

I think we are tied down and don't have a choice unless we take this off to a different system alltogether and create a Flickr page (or similar) and only provide the link to the regular users, but as we are on a public forum, that kinda gets iffy on it's own as we'd be stopping any new individuals who might be interested in joining the group from being interested.

If we take this to a new level, i think we will alienate any potential new commers.

I'd love to see the layout and voting system change, but there really is nothing we can do logically without pissing off eachother, the forum, the community, and etc.

Right now, it works, granted to a limited level, but it works all the same, and it's about as good as it's going to get without actually making anything worse.

and when you look at other photography sites they are set up similarily too, there's just no way around it.

If you want lots of extra votes, once a week when the pole is made, start a new thread in General, linking to the poll thread, then you can get away with single votes, and who knows, we might start to see more participants in the future that didn't know we had a photography section.

[rodi]

here we go:
i'll just pick the winning photo for each contest.

done.

[The1]

Originally Posted by rodi

here we go:
i'll just pick the winning photo for each contest.

done.

Perfect.
Job done!

[UdubBadger]

I like it...

[Chewy734]

It would be interesting to read rodi's one-word critiques of our photos.

"suck"... "no"... "fail"... "lame"... "boring"...

[UdubBadger]

I'm surprised he hasn't called anything "Badger" yet....

[spanner1751]

Chewy, I appreciate the thought you're placing into this, but I think you're taking this contest too seriously. Some people will criticize whatever you do. I'll bet if you change the contest format, you'll get negative feedback on that, too.
The contest if supposed to be for fun, and maybe some bragging rights if you're the winner.
I don't see any problem with the way the contest is run now, but then again I'm pretty new here and only have entered a few times.

[UdubBadger]

^ the problem is the "public" votes on the shiny junk they see on the surface instead of things that actually relate to good photography. Also the popularity contest element where people get friends voting on their photos just because.