Runners Post

xxForgedxx · 01-01-2009, 11:30 PM

I have to take a PT test on the 9th. I need to run two miles in 16:36 for my age group and it will be outside in PA. The run is a straight concrete sidewalk mile, turn around and run on the same side back. Info for ref:

-I am running on a treadmill, my most recent time was 15:23 on a brand new super high tech treadmill (which I hope is accurate minus the terrain smoothness but the sidewalk is pretty smooth)

-I am wondering, to improve my two mile time FAST should I run as fast as I possibly can the last quarter mile on the treadmill to improve? I am going to run tomorrow, Sunday and Tuesday and then have a 2 day rest of everything for the run next Friday.

-I know I am beating my time by en entire minute on a treadmill but I am worried that variables such as my paranoia, the weather/running outside will force me to tack on time.

-I get very nervous for PT tests even though I have never failed one in my life (knock on wood) but I am wondering if I get into the high 14:00s (14:50) or so if I should feel confident that I can easily pass the run outside so what do you think?

I have the choice to run on an indoor track but I am told that the air is very dry and sucks more than running outside where it may be cold but the air is flowing. I am choosing to run every other day because I am nursing shin splints, if I have enough time in between runs they don't bother me much otherwise I'd be running daily until that bitch.

radix · 01-01-2009, 11:40 PM

Do interval training, something like 2 minutes at a regular pace, then 30 seconds of sprinting. Lather, rinse, repeat. This method will give you the quickest results. Personally I find running outdoors a little easier than running on a treadmill, but I know I'm in the minority. There should be more than a few seconds difference either way though. BTW, in your situation I'd rest for 3-4 days prior to the test.

xxForgedxx · 01-01-2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anmcguire

Do interval training, something like 2 minutes at a regular pace, then 30 seconds of sprinting. Lather, rinse, repeat. This method will give you the quickest results. Personally I find running outdoors a little easier than running on a treadmill, but I know I'm in the minority. There should be more than a few seconds difference either way though. BTW, in your situation I'd rest for 3-4 days prior to the test.

So you think that will be more beneficial than actually running the 2 miles with a long sprint at the end of the run? I will be on a treadmill

radix · 01-01-2009, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxForgedxx

So you think that will be more beneficial than actually running the 2 miles with a long sprint at the end of the run? I will be on a treadmill

Absolutely. I know it's more difficult to do on a treadmill, so what you could do instead is go by mileage. E.g. .20 miles regular pace (say 7.5mph), followed by .10 miles at almost a sprint (9mph). This way you don't have to change settings quite so much. When I'm looking to decrease my run times I use this method and it works. Usually it's better to work on distance first, then speed. Additionally, it's usually good to take a week off after the first 2-3 weeks to allow some time for your body to heal, but it looks like you're on a tight timetable.

googoomas · 01-01-2009, 11:57 PM

I would say get a watch and go run outside (the same course if you can) a couple of times and see how your doing... if the run will be outside than I would advise training outside... also when I was on cross country in high school we used to do a long sprint at the end of our run (in your case maybe the last 1/4 mile).

xxForgedxx · 01-02-2009, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anmcguire

Absolutely. I know it's more difficult to do on a treadmill, so what you could do instead is go by mileage. E.g. .20 miles regular pace (say 7.5mph), followed by .10 miles at almost a sprint (9mph). This way you don't have to change settings quite so much. When I'm looking to decrease my run times I use this method and it works. Usually it's better to work on distance first, then speed. Additionally, it's usually good to take a week off after the first 2-3 weeks to allow some time for your body to heal, but it looks like you're on a tight timetable.

Ok so how about distance? Run a 7.5 for .20 and then 9.0 for 10 and so on for how many miles?

I forgot to mention that my 15:2x on the treadmill is not me running balls out. For example, I can run a 1.90 mile and then I get excited and crank the treadmill all the way up to 12.4 and sprint out the last tenth.

I have been doing:

7.5 0-.50
7.7 .50-1.5
8.0 1.5-1.75
9.0 1.75-2.00

I'm tired at the end, but I def could run 9.0 or even 9.5 from 1.75-1.90 and then do a 12.0 from 1.90-2.00 if that helps you understand my output. I am usually able to hack time off pretty easily, I think I could chop another 30 seconds off the two mile before the run but I am mainly concerned with the variables and how much they will affect. Keep in mind I only have to do it in 16:36, that's a lot of time... but I'm a worry wart too.

561design · 01-02-2009, 12:09 AM

Forget running indoors. If you're not used to it, you'll spend your time getting acclaimated instead of getting faster. Try running on your toes / front of your feet. If you can get a hold of one of those parachutes that'll help you alot. We also used to strap ourselves to pvc poles dug into the ground. But I doubt you'll find one of those in time.

xxForgedxx · 01-02-2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 561design

Forget running indoors. If you're not used to it, you'll spend your time getting acclaimated instead of getting faster. Try running on your toes / front of your feet. If you can get a hold of one of those parachutes that'll help you alot. We also used to strap ourselves to pvc poles dug into the ground. But I doubt you'll find one of those in time.

I can't run on my toes, I get shin splints. As far as the other stuff, at this moment it's too experimental for someone in my situation right now. Besides, I can't afford to re-catch pneumonia right before the PT test by running outside and sweating outside. I'll save that for the test and hell I might even be able to do it at the sports center indoor track. I wonder if that would be a better idea, the air is dry though I hear.

561design · 01-02-2009, 12:11 AM

You can also run statically againist a wall only using the front parts of your feet as contact. Or step up and down on one stair, just don't bust your ass. The key is to stay on your toes.

Try rolling a tennis ball under each foot when your seated, that'll help your shin splints.

561design · 01-02-2009, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxForgedxx

I can't run on my toes, I get shin splints. As far as the other stuff, at this moment it's too experimental for someone in my situation right now. Besides, I can't afford to re-catch pneumonia right before the PT test by running outside and sweating outside. I'll save that for the test and hell I might even be able to do it at the sports center indoor track. I wonder if that would be a better idea, the air is dry though I hear.

That's the problem, the dry air inside will mess with your lungs. I used to cough up blood the first few days of heavy practice. I know shin splints suck but that's how you'll get faster, eventually you'll get over them. But you're right don't bust your ass so close to PT. You could try to static wall thing in your bathroom with a hot shower running, that will humidify the air and not mess up your lungs.

561design · 01-02-2009, 12:16 AM

You can also work your upper body as well on your off days. That helps alot when you're sprinting. Remember to lean forward not back when you're sprinting. Keep a good kick and your arms close.

xxForgedxx · 01-02-2009, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 561design

You can also work your upper body as well on your off days. That helps alot when you're sprinting. Remember to lean forward not back when you're sprinting. Keep a good kick and your arms close.

What about a sauna? Would that do anything for me and my breathing? There is one at my gym so I could do that .20 7.5 .10 9.0 runs and then spend 30 minutes in the sauna right after it?

radix · 01-02-2009, 12:46 AM

To address a couple of things in this thread...

1. Run on soft but firm surfaces, ideally a grass field or similar surface, but a treadmill will do. Reserve running on concrete for your tests, as in the long run it'll hurt you, particularly if you're nursing shin splints.

2. Do not run long distances on your toes, that's a technique mostly used by sprinters. That said you don't have to run full on heel/toe either. Try to strike the ground midfoot. Either way, changing your running technique with only nine days until your test won't help and could actually hurt your time.

3. As far as distance goes, I got used to my 3 mile runs in the Marines, but sometimes go up to 10k. I'd do interval training at about 5k.

4. Core work, meaning abs and lower back will greatly help.

PaulBailey@ltbmw · 01-02-2009, 12:50 AM

I used to be able to run 2 miles in 12 minutes

Now i'm a fatty

just4kickz · 01-02-2009, 12:54 AM

if i were you, i would start running on the surface that replicates the test itself... and use the treadmill only for those very bad weather days. performance is usually better if you practice in the actual performance setting which includes distractions, crap on the roads, road surface, etc.

and definitely try the indoor track... better to just practice there one day to see if you like the conditions.

DougLikesBMW · 01-02-2009, 01:28 AM

What did I tell you in your last thread, Forged? I told you that you would get shin splints because you're running on a treadmill. The reason you are getting shin splints is because your stride is not long enough. And the reason for this is that treadmills prevent this. Run outside, increase your stride, and stretch those shins.

You can stretch your shins by placing the top of your foot on the ground and stretching the front.

its ray den · 01-02-2009, 09:44 AM

9 days left? there's really not much you can change to improve yourself. like someone else said, you can do some interval training outside. i think that would be your best bet.

but i would definitely try your 2 mile run outside just so you can see how well you're actually doing.

treadmill = sucks.

ybbiz34 · 01-02-2009, 11:05 AM

For longer races, they say seconds at the beginning = minutes at the end. Make sure you get off to a good start while you are fresh.

Explorer3253 · 01-02-2009, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxForgedxx

I have to take a PT test on the 9th. I need to run two miles in 16:36 for my age group and it will be outside in PA. The run is a straight concrete sidewalk mile, turn around and run on the same side back. Info for ref:

-I am running on a treadmill, my most recent time was 15:23 on a brand new super high tech treadmill (which I hope is accurate minus the terrain smoothness but the sidewalk is pretty smooth)

-I am wondering, to improve my two mile time FAST should I run as fast as I possibly can the last quarter mile on the treadmill to improve? I am going to run tomorrow, Sunday and Tuesday and then have a 2 day rest of everything for the run next Friday.

-I know I am beating my time by en entire minute on a treadmill but I am worried that variables such as my paranoia, the weather/running outside will force me to tack on time.

-I get very nervous for PT tests even though I have never failed one in my life (knock on wood) but I am wondering if I get into the high 14:00s (14:50) or so if I should feel confident that I can easily pass the run outside so what do you think?

I have the choice to run on an indoor track but I am told that the air is very dry and sucks more than running outside where it may be cold but the air is flowing. I am choosing to run every other day because I am nursing shin splints, if I have enough time in between runs they don't bother me much otherwise I'd be running daily until that bitch.

Like I mentioned in the other post, I too trained for a PFT in February on a 9 degree day. You need to be running outside. Its too late now to train outdoors b/c you need to get your lungs acclimated to the cold weather. I suggest you go out one day this week and run outdoors and see how your lungs handle it...Otherwise I would strongly suggest you do the indoor run since you've been doing the treadmill indoors. It will be just like running on the treadmill since you've been doing it indoors. If you really want to do the outdoor run, perhaps you can postpone the PFT and get out there and get your lungs used to the cold weather. Not to be a downer, but since you've been training indoors, the cold weather is going to hit you like a ton of bricks on your first 1/4 to 1/2 mile.

xxForgedxx · 01-02-2009, 03:34 PM

So I ran today: 14:59

That was with

7.5 for .20
9.0 for .10

until 1.5 miles and then I ran from 1.5-1.75 @ 7.5

1.75-1.90 @ 8.5-9.0 and

1.90-2.00 @ 12.4

I shaved off almost 30 seconds... I have a feeling I can shave off another 30 seconds in the next two runs. So I will hopefully be at 14:30 on the treadmill what do you think I will run on an indoor track with that time? and outside? it is 39 degrees today.

ukthunderace · 01-02-2009, 06:33 PM

Forged,
I know it is tough for you with the shin splints and all, but you need to get outside. Get to a track if you can or pace off a 400 meter distance somehwere. NOT the treadmill.
You need to do 3 miles of interval for your practise...you need to jog 400 meters one way and sprint the other. That is 1/2 a mile. That means you do this 6 times.
Concentrate on striking the ground with the middle of your foot (just behind the ball) and make sure you are getting a good stride.
This type of interval training will give HUGE benefit to your run. This is the type of training I do for my PT test and I am down under 12 minutes (and I am 40 years old). Make sure that you wear leggings or something in the cold to keep you legs warm. Also, run with a watch cap and gloves.
When it comes time for the test just remember one thing:
If your legs are still moving, you are not dead yet. You can keep going.

xxForgedxx · 01-02-2009, 08:58 PM

I think this is being looking into too deep. I used to run a 13 minute ish two mile. When I was on active duty and running a few days a week. I will be back into that once the semester starts. I am not new to running, just haven't been consistent with it in a while. I just need to know that if I am running a 14:59 2 mile today when I ran a 15:23 a couple of days ago, if I continue what I am doing should I be down to a 14:30 or so...

and if I am running a 14:30 on the treadmill should I even worry about hitting a 16:36 on the track or outdoors. My legs are strong, I've been lifting for years and I'm not a novice to working out I am just worried about variables and if they would really affect the run to the point where it adds 1:30-2:00 to my run. I really don't think so but what do you think?

Sometimes all it takes is running the two mile to get better at the two mile. I am not trying to cut off tons of time. I just need to make the two mile in 16:36 which is really a lot of time.

I'm worried about the variables and if they really matter that much? I also think that when it comes down to it, knowing the importance of the run makes people pull effort out of there ass to not fail.

01-01-2009, 11:30 PM	#1
xxForgedxx Lieutenant 616 Rep 516 Posts Drives: Slow/Fat Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: USA iTrader: (1)	Runners Post I have to take a PT test on the 9th. I need to run two miles in 16:36 for my age group and it will be outside in PA. The run is a straight concrete sidewalk mile, turn around and run on the same side back. Info for ref: -I am running on a treadmill, my most recent time was 15:23 on a brand new super high tech treadmill (which I hope is accurate minus the terrain smoothness but the sidewalk is pretty smooth) -I am wondering, to improve my two mile time FAST should I run as fast as I possibly can the last quarter mile on the treadmill to improve? I am going to run tomorrow, Sunday and Tuesday and then have a 2 day rest of everything for the run next Friday. -I know I am beating my time by en entire minute on a treadmill but I am worried that variables such as my paranoia, the weather/running outside will force me to tack on time. -I get very nervous for PT tests even though I have never failed one in my life (knock on wood) but I am wondering if I get into the high 14:00s (14:50) or so if I should feel confident that I can easily pass the run outside so what do you think? I have the choice to run on an indoor track but I am told that the air is very dry and sucks more than running outside where it may be cold but the air is flowing. I am choosing to run every other day because I am nursing shin splints, if I have enough time in between runs they don't bother me much otherwise I'd be running daily until that bitch.
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01-01-2009, 11:40 PM	#2
radix you know he kills little girls like you 398 Rep 892 Posts Drives: - Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: - iTrader: (0)	Do interval training, something like 2 minutes at a regular pace, then 30 seconds of sprinting. Lather, rinse, repeat. This method will give you the quickest results. Personally I find running outdoors a little easier than running on a treadmill, but I know I'm in the minority. There should be more than a few seconds difference either way though. BTW, in your situation I'd rest for 3-4 days prior to the test.
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01-01-2009, 11:57 PM	#5
googoomas First Lieutenant 29 Rep 310 Posts Drives: 155mph (Stupid Limiter) Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Portland iTrader: (2)	I would say get a watch and go run outside (the same course if you can) a couple of times and see how your doing... if the run will be outside than I would advise training outside... also when I was on cross country in high school we used to do a long sprint at the end of our run (in your case maybe the last 1/4 mile).
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01-02-2009, 12:09 AM	#7
561design z4um Hooligan 151 Rep 586 Posts Drives: 3.0Si Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Woodstock,Ga iTrader: (1)	Forget running indoors. If you're not used to it, you'll spend your time getting acclaimated instead of getting faster. Try running on your toes / front of your feet. If you can get a hold of one of those parachutes that'll help you alot. We also used to strap ourselves to pvc poles dug into the ground. But I doubt you'll find one of those in time. __________________ Charles flickr
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01-02-2009, 12:11 AM	#9
561design z4um Hooligan 151 Rep 586 Posts Drives: 3.0Si Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Woodstock,Ga iTrader: (1)	You can also run statically againist a wall only using the front parts of your feet as contact. Or step up and down on one stair, just don't bust your ass. The key is to stay on your toes. Try rolling a tennis ball under each foot when your seated, that'll help your shin splints. __________________ Charles flickr
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01-02-2009, 12:16 AM	#11
561design z4um Hooligan 151 Rep 586 Posts Drives: 3.0Si Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Woodstock,Ga iTrader: (1)	You can also work your upper body as well on your off days. That helps alot when you're sprinting. Remember to lean forward not back when you're sprinting. Keep a good kick and your arms close. __________________ Charles flickr
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01-02-2009, 12:46 AM	#13
radix you know he kills little girls like you 398 Rep 892 Posts Drives: - Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: - iTrader: (0)	To address a couple of things in this thread... 1. Run on soft but firm surfaces, ideally a grass field or similar surface, but a treadmill will do. Reserve running on concrete for your tests, as in the long run it'll hurt you, particularly if you're nursing shin splints. 2. Do not run long distances on your toes, that's a technique mostly used by sprinters. That said you don't have to run full on heel/toe either. Try to strike the ground midfoot. Either way, changing your running technique with only nine days until your test won't help and could actually hurt your time. 3. As far as distance goes, I got used to my 3 mile runs in the Marines, but sometimes go up to 10k. I'd do interval training at about 5k. 4. Core work, meaning abs and lower back will greatly help.
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01-02-2009, 12:50 AM	#14
PaulBailey@ltbmw General 677 Rep 26,876 Posts Drives: 2-325 330 2-335 2-Z4 2-135 X5d Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Huntington Beach, CA iTrader: (34) Garage List 2008 BMW 335i E90 [7.00] 2011 BMW 335i E92 [7.96]	I used to be able to run 2 miles in 12 minutes Now i'm a fatty
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01-02-2009, 12:54 AM	#15
just4kickz boku no namae ha... 342 Rep 11,023 Posts Drives: 2006 BS 330i Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: S. Bay Area, CA + Newark, NJ + ChiCity + True Blue iTrader: (11) Garage List 2006 E90 330i [0.00]	if i were you, i would start running on the surface that replicates the test itself... and use the treadmill only for those very bad weather days. performance is usually better if you practice in the actual performance setting which includes distractions, crap on the roads, road surface, etc. and definitely try the indoor track... better to just practice there one day to see if you like the conditions. __________________ looking for a PreLCI Black Sapphire e90 front bumper without license plate holes "Akimbo shotguns. Broken wrists anyone? And don't give me that 'it's just a game' bull**. Where the are my akimbo interventions then?! One scope on each eye mother**er!!"
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01-02-2009, 01:28 AM	#16
DougLikesBMW Fapmin 435 Rep 2,660 Posts Drives: '03 E46 330Ci Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Plano, Texas iTrader: (0)	What did I tell you in your last thread, Forged? I told you that you would get shin splints because you're running on a treadmill. The reason you are getting shin splints is because your stride is not long enough. And the reason for this is that treadmills prevent this. Run outside, increase your stride, and stretch those shins. You can stretch your shins by placing the top of your foot on the ground and stretching the front.
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01-02-2009, 09:44 AM	#17
its ray den Second Lieutenant 4 Rep 205 Posts Drives: 2004 Mazda6s Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NY iTrader: (0)	9 days left? there's really not much you can change to improve yourself. like someone else said, you can do some interval training outside. i think that would be your best bet. but i would definitely try your 2 mile run outside just so you can see how well you're actually doing. treadmill = sucks.
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01-02-2009, 11:05 AM	#18
ybbiz34 Brigadier General 697 Rep 4,959 Posts Drives: 2023 330i M Sport Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: USA iTrader: (1)	For longer races, they say seconds at the beginning = minutes at the end. Make sure you get off to a good start while you are fresh. __________________ Current: '23 G20 M Sport 330i Current: '20 X253 GLC300 SUV Gone: '20 W205 C43 Sedan Gone: '18 W205 C43 Sedan Gone: '13 W204 C63 Sedan
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01-02-2009, 03:34 PM	#20
xxForgedxx Lieutenant 616 Rep 516 Posts Drives: Slow/Fat Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: USA iTrader: (1)	So I ran today: 14:59 That was with 7.5 for .20 9.0 for .10 until 1.5 miles and then I ran from 1.5-1.75 @ 7.5 1.75-1.90 @ 8.5-9.0 and 1.90-2.00 @ 12.4 I shaved off almost 30 seconds... I have a feeling I can shave off another 30 seconds in the next two runs. So I will hopefully be at 14:30 on the treadmill what do you think I will run on an indoor track with that time? and outside? it is 39 degrees today.
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01-02-2009, 06:33 PM	#21
ukthunderace Autobahn Cruiser 25 Rep 272 Posts Drives: '07 335i Tief Gruen Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Hockenheim Germany iTrader: (0)	Forged, I know it is tough for you with the shin splints and all, but you need to get outside. Get to a track if you can or pace off a 400 meter distance somehwere. NOT the treadmill. You need to do 3 miles of interval for your practise...you need to jog 400 meters one way and sprint the other. That is 1/2 a mile. That means you do this 6 times. Concentrate on striking the ground with the middle of your foot (just behind the ball) and make sure you are getting a good stride. This type of interval training will give HUGE benefit to your run. This is the type of training I do for my PT test and I am down under 12 minutes (and I am 40 years old). Make sure that you wear leggings or something in the cold to keep you legs warm. Also, run with a watch cap and gloves. When it comes time for the test just remember one thing: If your legs are still moving, you are not dead yet. You can keep going.
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01-02-2009, 08:58 PM	#22
xxForgedxx Lieutenant 616 Rep 516 Posts Drives: Slow/Fat Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: USA iTrader: (1)	I think this is being looking into too deep. I used to run a 13 minute ish two mile. When I was on active duty and running a few days a week. I will be back into that once the semester starts. I am not new to running, just haven't been consistent with it in a while. I just need to know that if I am running a 14:59 2 mile today when I ran a 15:23 a couple of days ago, if I continue what I am doing should I be down to a 14:30 or so... and if I am running a 14:30 on the treadmill should I even worry about hitting a 16:36 on the track or outdoors. My legs are strong, I've been lifting for years and I'm not a novice to working out I am just worried about variables and if they would really affect the run to the point where it adds 1:30-2:00 to my run. I really don't think so but what do you think? Sometimes all it takes is running the two mile to get better at the two mile. I am not trying to cut off tons of time. I just need to make the two mile in 16:36 which is really a lot of time. I'm worried about the variables and if they really matter that much? I also think that when it comes down to it, knowing the importance of the run makes people pull effort out of there ass to not fail.
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