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      12-09-2018, 06:04 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco44 View Post
If you read my posts, you will NOT find me saying that Trudeau will be good for Canada with another four year mandate. I only said that Scheer is not the answer, neither for the Cons party, nor for the country. In 2019 (if based on today's info)I don't want to vote for Trudeau; but could not vote for Scheer either (and I would never vote NDP).

You are assuming incorrectly that my dislike for Scheer translates into a love for Trudeau. Nothing is further from the truth.
I have not once said that you have feelings one way or another for Trudeau. Your view in fact seems fairly reasonable regarding Trudeau, what I find interesting though is that you don't seem to think that Trudeau will be good moving forward and yet don't seem to support Sheer. Trudeau is driving a wedge between East and West in Canada which isn't good for anybody. Unfortunately in Canada, you really need to pick a side when you step into the voting booth, or else you really shouldn't complain about government one way or the other. To me Trudeau is completely unpalatable, both on foreign and domestic policy. I'd be happy for someone who puts on a suit and tie, shows up to work and does his damn job and spends money (our tax dollars) responsibly rather than trying to impress people with his costume changes and gifts of cash as though the money is his to throw around.

Last edited by City Pig; 12-09-2018 at 06:11 PM..
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      12-09-2018, 06:04 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
I thought Max was a good choice before jumping ship, he's a Quebecer, well spoken way smarter than Trudeau and really pretty middle of the road compared to how far left Trudeau and the liberals have gone in Canada.

I've always believed even a hard right leaning conservative e would only pull Canada closer to the centre. We will likely never find out though.
I can't debate who was 'smarter'. Harper was one of the "hardest right leaning conservatives" we have seen in recent times and he was bulldozed.

Canada needs more Maritimers.
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      12-09-2018, 06:11 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
I have not once said that you have feelings one way or another for Trudeau. Your view in fact seems fairly reasonable regarding Trudeau, what I find interesting though is that you don't seem to think that Trudeau will be good moving forward and yet don't seem to support Sheer. Unfortunately in Canada, you really need to pick a side when you step into the voting booth, or else you really shouldn't complain about government one way or the other. To me Trudeau is completely unpalatable, both on foreign and domestic policy. I'd be happy for someone who puts on a suit and tie, shows up to work and does his damn job and spends money (our tax dollars) responsibly rather than trying to impress people with his costume changes and gifts of cash as though the money is his to throw around.
I may not be as smart as your Jack Russell, but by the time of the next federal election, I will likely have figured it out.

BTW, good luck in Ontario with another lame-brain in charge, Dougie. Not that the previous ON govt was so good either.

Sigh, where have all the decent politicians gone? Like Lougheed in AB, Bennett and Campbell in BC, Davis in ON...............
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      12-09-2018, 06:18 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco44 View Post
I may not be as smart as your Jack Russell, but by the time of the next federal election, I will likely have figured it out.

BTW, good luck in Ontario with another lame-brain in charge, Dougie. Not that the previous ON govt was so good either.

Sigh, where have all the decent politicians gone? Like Lougheed in AB, Bennett and Campbell in BC, Davis in ON...............
Heres the thing, I don't particularly like Doug Ford. I don't need to personally like a leader. I want the to show up to work and do their job, I don't need them to be my friend. Ontario was taken to the brink by McGuinty and Wynne, Ford was elected because folks were sick of being told what they need, the lies, waste and debt. Trudeau is going down the same road. I don't need to like Sheer or Harper for that matter, just balance the budget, be responsible and do your damn job.

The good politicians you mention are of a by gone era, read the posts here, there is no civility left. People don't want a steady hand on the tiller, its divisive and angry. Everything is boiled down to a twitter post. None of your picks would survive in the current climate.
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      12-09-2018, 06:24 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Heres the thing, I don't particularly like Doug Ford. I don't need to personally like a leader. I want the to show up to work and do their job, I don't need them to be my friend. Ontario was taken to the brink by McGuinty and Wynne, Ford was elected because folks were sick of being told what they need, the lies, waste and debt. Trudeau is going down the same road. I don't need to like Sheer or Harper for that matter, just balance the budget, be responsible and do your damn job.

The good politicians you mention are of a by gone era, read the posts here, there is no civility left. People don't want a steady hand on the tiller, its divisive and angry. Everything is boiled down to a twitter post. None of your picks would survive in the current climate.
You are correct about the lack of civility, either on this forum, nor in politics. Look no further than just south of us for a "leader" who must rank among the most uncivil public figures in history.

We are both (according to our userhandles anyway) from an earlier generation that valued courtesy and manners in our public leaders. He is disgusting.

I'm out of here for now.
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      12-09-2018, 06:27 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco44 View Post
You are correct about the lack of civility, either on this forum, nor in politics. Look no further than just south of us for a "leader" who must rank among the most uncivil public figures in history.

We are both (according to our userhandles anyway) from an earlier generation that valued courtesy and manners in our public leaders. He is disgusting.

I'm out of here for now.
He's not the only one south of the boarder that's disgusting.....the media and all of his opponents have behaved on par with him. Trump could cure cancer and the media wouldn't report on it, rather it would be how many diet cokes he had today or that he went golfing or saluted improperly. The fact is he is doing his job, the US economy is strong and unemployment is low. I don't like him but I don't have to like any leader.

Have a good night.
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      12-09-2018, 07:26 PM   #183
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As an Albertan I could not vote to grant Trudeau a second term as he has been a disaster for the west. That said, I'd rather another 4 years of Trudeau ruining everything than give that slimeball Scheer a vote. Can't do ndp either. Ugh, our country is screwed.
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      12-10-2018, 08:07 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Refined View Post
As an Albertan I could not vote to grant Trudeau a second term as he has been a disaster for the west. That said, I'd rather another 4 years of Trudeau ruining everything than give that slimeball Scheer a vote. Can't do ndp either. Ugh, our country is screwed.
All politicians are slime, but you need to ask yourself what's the least worst. I can't imagine anyone in Alberta voting for Trudeau in 2019, so if you don't vote for Sheer then you are in fact voting for Trudeau.

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      12-10-2018, 08:58 AM   #185
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I don’t understand the focus on the individual, rather than the policies that are in play.

I agree with Grumpy, all politicians are slime...they’re either kissing babies or stealing their lollipops ...

I dislike Trudeau, but I absolutely despise his policies.
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      12-10-2018, 09:09 AM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHudson View Post
I don’t understand the focus on the individual, rather than the policies that are in play.

I agree with Grumpy, all politicians are slime...they’re either kissing babies or stealing their lollipops ...

I dislike Trudeau, but I absolutely despise his policies.
Curious as to what policies you have such a problem with? Unemployment is low, the economy just added ~100,000 fun time jobs, GDP increased by 3% in 2017 and expected to be close to that at the end of 2018.

I do agree with you that there is far too much focus on the individual and not the government as a whole.

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      12-10-2018, 09:44 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Curious as to what policies you have such a problem with? Unemployment is low, the economy just added ~100,000 fun time jobs, GDP increased by 3% in 2017 and expected to be close to that at the end of 2018.

I do agree with you that there is far too much focus on the individual and not the government as a whole.
His immigration policy or lack of it, carbon tax, pipeline purchase, legalization of marijuana, Omar Khadr, CF18's, First Nations, treatment of Alberta and the oil sands......
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      12-10-2018, 10:26 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
His immigration policy or lack of it, carbon tax, pipeline purchase, legalization of marijuana, Omar Khadr, CF18's, First Nations, treatment of Alberta and the oil sands......
How about you break these down a bit to provide a bit of context rather then just list them out. A number of the items you listed were inherited from the previous governments.
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      12-10-2018, 11:42 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
How about you break these down a bit to provide a bit of context rather then just list them out. A number of the items you listed were inherited from the previous governments.
Not one of these things was inherited from the previous government.

Trudeaus Tweet creating the "irregular immigrants form the US" crisis costing cities hundreds of millions.

The Carbon Tax or as Trudeau calls it "pollution fee" that is going to drive up the cost of living for every singe Canadian.

He spent $4.5 Billion buying a pipeline that he can't or won't build.

Legalizing of marijuana has been a complete cock up.

He paid Omar Khadr $10 Million dollars despite 71% of Canadians being against it.

He is now buying used CF18's from Australia after cancelling the previous governments procurement process to replace our existing fleet of CF18's

He has broken almost every promise he's made to FN.

Alberta is in crisis, he has the ability to assist but he doesn't. Are they getting transfer payments this year, nope, they will have to pay to the Feds who will then make transfer payments to Quebec who's economy is doing well.
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      12-10-2018, 11:48 AM   #190
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So many things that could be said..............but I broke my promise to myself yesterday to stay out of political/religious threads.

Emotion and irrationality, not fact, rules these threads and there is no win in here at all for anyone.

Have fun.
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      12-10-2018, 12:17 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Not one of these things was inherited from the previous government.

Trudeaus Tweet creating the "irregular immigrants form the US" crisis costing cities hundreds of millions.
The 'safe third country' agreement has been on the books for years. I don't think anyone could have expected the amount of people fleeing the US in fear of deportation by Trump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
The Carbon Tax or as Trudeau calls it "pollution fee" that is going to drive up the cost of living for every singe Canadian.
In provinces where the carbon tax applies, people will receive a credit to offset any additional costs from the tax.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
He spent $4.5 Billion buying a pipeline that he can't or won't build.
I agree with you here. Build the damn pipe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Legalizing of marijuana has been a complete cock up.
Being the first modern country to legalize recreational marijuana nationally how could you not expect some issues. I'm sure the bugs will be worked out over the coming years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
He paid Omar Khadr $10 Million dollars despite 71% of Canadians being against it.
If the Harper government had given this guy due process, he would likely be in jail in Canada now. The cost could have been a lot more if the government went to court. Don't forget Harper paid $10M to Maher Arar....glass houses.

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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
He is now buying used CF18's from Australia after cancelling the previous governments procurement process to replace our existing fleet of CF18's
Unfortunately a trade issue between Bombardier and Boing derailed the contact for the super hornets. I'm not a fan of buying used jets but given he procurement time, we don't have much choice. Why can't we buy some used jets from our US friends? I'm sure they have some laying around somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
He has broken almost every promise he's made to FN.

Alberta is in crisis, he has the ability to assist but he doesn't. Are they getting transfer payments this year, nope, they will have to pay to the Feds who will then make transfer payments to Quebec who's economy is doing well.
Alberta has enjoyed many years of prosperity when oil was >$100/barrel. It's expensive to get out out of the san in Alberta. The pipeline will help but Alberta will never be what it was in it's hay day now that the US is less dependent on Canadian oil. Alberta should be looking at implement a provincial sales tax, not looking or equalization payments. Little bit of the pot calling the kettle black....this is the first year in ~10 years since Ontario hasn't received equitation payments.
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      12-10-2018, 01:22 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
The 'safe third country' agreement has been on the books for years. I don't think anyone could have expected the amount of people fleeing the US in fear of deportation by Trump.

Trudeau's tweet created the wave of illegals crossing the boarder (fact) additional cost to municipalities in the hundreds of millions (fact)


In provinces where the carbon tax applies, people will receive a credit to offset any additional costs from the tax.

We've discussed/debated this at nauseam earlier in this thread. I've posted numerous articles that debunk the notion of revenue neutral, Doug Ford presented a plan that would meet or exceed the targets for GHG reduction that didn't involve a tax and it was flatly rejected by Trudeau who insist there must be a price on carbon, this is clearly not about improving the environment, it's clearly about Trudeau increasing taxes.


I agree with you here. Build the damn pipe!

Yes, build the damn pipe.


Being the first modern country to legalize recreational marijuana nationally how could you not expect some issues. I'm sure the bugs will be worked out over the coming years.

[I]He rushed the whole thing through without considering the ramifications
/I]


If the Harper government had given this guy due process, he would likely be in jail in Canada now. The cost could have been a lot more if the government went to court. Don't forget Harper paid $10M to Maher Arar....glass houses.

We've debated this before, This actually goes back to Chretien and the point is that if Trudeau had've taken it to court he could at least not to appear to support terrorists.


Unfortunately a trade issue between Bombardier and Boing derailed the contact for the super hornets. I'm not a fan of buying used jets but given he procurement time, we don't have much choice. Why can't we buy some used jets from our US friends? I'm sure they have some laying around somewhere.

Actually, I'm talking about the F35's....and the Super Hornets, but the fact is that if the liberals didn't keep bailing out Bombardier and didn't stick their noses in the dispute he wouldn't be stuck buy used fighter jets.



Alberta has enjoyed many years of prosperity when oil was >$100/barrel. It's expensive to get out out of the san in Alberta. The pipeline will help but Alberta will never be what it was in it's hay day now that the US is less dependent on Canadian oil. Alberta should be looking at implement a provincial sales tax, not looking or equalization payments. Little bit of the pot calling the kettle black....this is the first year in ~10 years since Ontario hasn't received equitation payments.

Built the damn pipe but then he doesn't care about Alberta because he won't win a single seat there.

Last edited by City Pig; 12-10-2018 at 01:29 PM..
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      12-10-2018, 01:28 PM   #193
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What's the definition of a "modern" country? LOL

Canada isn't the first country to allow recreational marijuana.
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      12-10-2018, 01:47 PM   #194
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What's the definition of a "modern" country? LOL

Canada isn't the first country to allow recreational marijuana.
Canada is the second country next to Uruguay to legalize Cannabis.
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      12-10-2018, 02:08 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Trudeau's tweet created the wave of illegals crossing the boarder (fact) additional cost to municipalities in the hundreds of millions (fact)
Please site your source for Trudeaus tweet being the cause of the wave of immigrants (who are not illegal by the way, they are refugees). its a bit of cause and effect thing. It all started with Trump.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
We've discussed/debated this at nauseam earlier in this thread. I've posted numerous articles that debunk the notion of revenue neutral, Doug Ford presented a plan that would meet or exceed the targets for GHG reduction that didn't involve a tax and it was flatly rejected by Trudeau who insist there must be a price on carbon, this is clearly not about improving the environment, it's clearly about Trudeau increasing taxes.
Until we see the cost vs revenue, neither of us know how it will work. Lets just leave it at that. As for Ford plan is wants to use taxypayer dollars to spur private investment in clean technologies...where do you think this extra money will com from. Prepare for a tax hike. Not a very conservative plan if you ask me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
He rushed the whole thing through without considering the ramifications
He said he was going to legalize it in the first year and he did. There is no way anyone could foresee all possible issues. So far the provinces have been dealing with them with very few issues...other then lack of supply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
We've debated this before, This actually goes back to Chretien and the point is that if Trudeau had've taken it to court he could at least not to appear to support terrorists.
Fair enough. It goes back even further but it has been well documented that if we went to court the government would have lost and cost taxpayers much more. The settlement has NOTHING to do with the guy being a terrorist or not. It's about his rights as a Canadian regardless what crimes he committed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Actually, I'm talking about the F35's....and the Super Hornets, but the fact is that if the liberals didn't keep bailing out Bombardier and didn't stick their noses in the dispute he wouldn't be stuck buy used fighter jets
The F35's are a joke. They are vastly overpriced and do not fit the specs of the Canadian military. Harper should have never sole sourced these things to go along with the US. It should have been an open RFP process so anyone can compete for the bid. This is what is happening now.

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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Built the damn pipe but then he doesn't care about Alberta because he won't win a single seat there.
I wouldn't be too sure. The polls seem to indicate the Liberals are ahead in Alberta. Not too much for Scheer in Alberta.
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      12-10-2018, 03:12 PM   #196
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While we are somewhat on the topic of Ontario taxes, we have this little gem.

Ontario deficit set to soar to $16B without big cuts or tax increases.

https://torontosun.com/news/provinci...tarios-economy
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      12-10-2018, 03:13 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Please site your source for Trudeaus tweet being the cause of the wave of immigrants (who are not illegal by the way, they are refugees). its a bit of cause and effect thing. It all started with Trump.

Until we see the cost vs revenue, neither of us know how it will work. Lets just leave it at that. As for Ford plan is wants to use taxypayer dollars to spur private investment in clean technologies...where do you think this extra money will com from. Prepare for a tax hike. Not a very conservative plan if you ask me.



He said he was going to legalize it in the first year and he did. There is no way anyone could foresee all possible issues. So far the provinces have been dealing with them with very few issues...other then lack of supply



Fair enough. It goes back even further but it has been well documented that if we went to court the government would have lost and cost taxpayers much more. The settlement has NOTHING to do with the guy being a terrorist or not. It's about his rights as a Canadian regardless what crimes he committed.



The F35's are a joke. They are vastly overpriced and do not fit the specs of the Canadian military. Harper should have never sole sourced these things to go along with the US. It should have been an open RFP process so anyone can compete for the bid. This is what is happening now.


I wouldn't be too sure. The polls seem to indicate the Liberals are ahead in Alberta. Not too much for Scheer in Alberta.
Forum research says the Conservative would win a majority right now.
http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2...december-2018/

Respondents most likely to support the Conservatives include those who live in the Prairies (Alberta 65%, Manitoba/Saskatchewan 57%), males (51%), between the ages of 45-54 (51%), earning between $60k-$80k (49%), and/or have an education level of secondary school or less (47%).

Read more at: http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2...december-2018/
Copyright İForum Research Inc.
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      12-10-2018, 03:34 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Forum research says the Conservative would win a majority right now.
http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2...december-2018/

Respondents most likely to support the Conservatives include those who live in the Prairies (Alberta 65%, Manitoba/Saskatchewan 57%), males (51%), between the ages of 45-54 (51%), earning between $60k-$80k (49%), and/or have an education level of secondary school or less (47%).

Read more at: http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2...december-2018/
Copyright İForum Research Inc.
Take that poll with a grain of salt. From the same article.

When asked who would make the best Prime Minister regardless of which party they plan to vote for, 1 in 3 respondents selected Trudeau (33%) and Scheer (32%).
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