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      10-28-2018, 12:11 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
From the article, at most 90% of the tax taken will be given back. Others have already noted that it wonít go directly or even proportionately to those who pay the most because of the tax (often poor who can not afford substitutes). Doesnít seem like a very sensible nor fair system to me, but then Iím not Canadian.
My issue isn't with the rebate although the fact that the cheques will be getting mailed out in the lead up to the federal election seems an awful lot like vote buying.

My issue is that the rebates won't address the fact that the cost of everything will be going up due to the increase in cost to manufacturing/farming/transport/processing etc. Another fun fact is that since the pre retail price will be driven up we will then get taxed HST (Harmonized Sales Tax) on the increase in price caused by the Carbon Tax.

I'd love to see an analysis of how much the federal government will be collecting on that. Taxing a tax.....brings a tear to the liberal eye i'll bet.[/QUOTE]

There will be no cheque. The CRA will apply the rebate, they think you deserve, against your taxes for that year. Clearly, income or lack of income, is the most pressing issue for the Government. Young people tend to lean more towards Liberals and environmental issues, and getting money from the Government is certainly influencing them to continue that support.
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      10-28-2018, 04:59 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
How would this work... Only your first vehicle or two gets taxed? As the number of vehicles owned goes up, the tax goes down?
That's what I am asking. How would something like that work. Or people who happen to collect cars. They are rarely if ever driven, they are just part of a collection or speculative investment. But the way it sounds, if you own more items that add to carbon footprint, you pay more tax to "offset" their supposed carbon footprint. I think I'd prefer a mileage tax to that. But I also drive a lot so hopefully no one goes that far.
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      10-29-2018, 08:24 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by TomHudson View Post
I work for a 100% paper recycling company that produces roll paper from our Mills and produces corrugated products. We are subjected to every tax and fee the governments on every level can levy on us. There is no pass for what I would consider fundamentally Green by leaving trees standing and keeping paper out of landfills.
With a limited market in Canada, and competition, weíre expanding into the US in partnerships with US companies.

As margins get tighter to make money in Canada, subsidized US companies are making new high tech machines that will make ours obsolete. There is no incentive to build a new machine in Canada, with a cost in the high 100ís of millions.

We can actually do real environmental work here without ruining our manufacturing base and buying European sourced Green panels and wind mills....

I assume you are senior management/finance in your firm if you know how the carbon tax will affect your business. Curious, would the cap and trade system have worked better for your company?
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      10-29-2018, 08:32 AM   #70
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That's what I am asking. How would something like that work. Or people who happen to collect cars. They are rarely if ever driven, they are just part of a collection or speculative investment. But the way it sounds, if you own more items that add to carbon footprint, you pay more tax to "offset" their supposed carbon footprint. I think I'd prefer a mileage tax to that. But I also drive a lot so hopefully no one goes that far.
The price of gas will go up at the pump by about 11 cents a litre to start.
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      10-29-2018, 08:35 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by TomHudson View Post
My issue isn't with the rebate although the fact that the cheques will be getting mailed out in the lead up to the federal election seems an awful lot like vote buying.

My issue is that the rebates won't address the fact that the cost of everything will be going up due to the increase in cost to manufacturing/farming/transport/processing etc. Another fun fact is that since the pre retail price will be driven up we will then get taxed HST (Harmonized Sales Tax) on the increase in price caused by the Carbon Tax.

I'd love to see an analysis of how much the federal government will be collecting on that. Taxing a tax.....brings a tear to the liberal eye i'll bet.
There will be no cheque. The CRA will apply the rebate, they think you deserve, against your taxes for that year. Clearly, income or lack of income, is the most pressing issue for the Government. Young people tend to lean more towards Liberals and environmental issues, and getting money from the Government is certainly influencing them to continue that support.[/QUOTE]

I've checked what you say and according to the Globe and Mail: "Prime Minister Justin Trudeau took his climate-change battle to Ontario Premier Doug Fordís backyard on Tuesday, unveiling a carbon-tax plan that would see 80 per cent of households in the province financially better off as a result of annual rebates to be paid in the spring." So annual rebates starting in the spring, not a cheque but an adjustment on your income tax filing. Trudeau will no doubt be talking about this rebate (of our own money) leading up the the election though.

Last edited by City Pig; 10-29-2018 at 08:44 AM..
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      10-29-2018, 08:42 AM   #72
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The price of gas will go up at the pump by about 11 cents a litre to start.
That increase is to happen anytime between now and 2022. If Ford had of kept the cap and trade program, the increases would have been minuscule. The price of gas in Nova Scotia for example will only by a penny or two.
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      10-29-2018, 08:49 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
There will be no cheque. The CRA will apply the rebate, they think you deserve, against your taxes for that year. Clearly, income or lack of income, is the most pressing issue for the Government. Young people tend to lean more towards Liberals and environmental issues, and getting money from the Government is certainly influencing them to continue that support.


It's not a deduction it''s a rebate so your income has nothing to do with it.

"In the first year Canadians in the four provinces with the federal tax will receive their first full rebates after filing their 2018 tax return."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/how-...-out-1.4146471
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      10-29-2018, 08:51 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
[/I]

It's not a deduction it''s a rebate so your income has nothing to do with it. "In the first year Canadians in the four provinces with the federal tax will receive their first full rebates after filing their 2018 tax return."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/how-...-out-1.4146471
I know what it is, if you owe I gather they will deduct the rebate amount against what you owe and if you're getting a refund then it will be bigger by the rebate amount.
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      10-29-2018, 08:53 AM   #75
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That increase is to happen anytime between now and 2022. If Ford had of kept the cap and trade program, the increases would have been minuscule. The price of gas in Nova Scotia for example will only by a penny or two.
Diesel has gone from 0.94 cents a litre in 2016 to $1.28 a litre this summer, I suspect a big chunk of that was Kathleen Wynnes Cap and Trade.
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      10-29-2018, 09:20 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Diesel has gone from 0.94 cents a litre in 2016 to $1.28 a litre this summer, I suspect a big chunk of that was Kathleen Wynnes Cap and Trade.
Ford scrapped the cap and trade system days after he was was sworn in June 29. Any increases this summer would have been while he was in office.

In fact their doesn't seem to be any noticeable difference in prices. Seems pretty stable on average.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1...ers%5B0%5D=2.6
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      10-29-2018, 09:24 AM   #77
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Ford scrapped the cap and trade system data after he was was sworn in June 29. Any increases this summer would have been while he was in office.
Fuel went up over 0.30 cents a litre between August 2016 and when Ford dropped cap and trade. Thats a significant increase, in fact about $19 a fill up for me.
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      10-29-2018, 09:32 AM   #78
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I know what it is, if you owe I gather they will deduct the rebate amount against what you owe and if you're getting a refund then it will be bigger by the rebate amount.
That's not how it works. Think of it like the Child Care Benefit. Qualified people will still receive the CCB regardless if they owe income tax to CRA.
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      10-29-2018, 09:35 AM   #79
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Fuel went up over 0.30 cents a litre between August 2016 and when Ford dropped cap and trade. Thats a significant increase, in fact about $19 a fill up for me.
August 2016? I assume you mean 2018. Are you surprised that fuel prices increase during the summer driving season?
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      10-29-2018, 10:04 AM   #80
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August 2016? I assume you mean 2018. Are you surprised that fuel prices increase during the summer driving season?
No, I mean that since I bought my GLK in July 2016 the price of fuel has gone from 94 cents a litre to $1.28 a litre this summer, much of that has to do with Kathleen Wynne's Cap and Trade. I know fuel goes up in the summer, I know that Doug Ford got elected in June and removed the Cap and Trade shortly after he was elected. I also know that when Kathleen Wynne implemented the Cap and Trade and told up that fuel prices would go up about 0.04 cents and that the increase would be about $4.00 a fill up and that in fact the increase was about $10 a fill up. Liberal politicians love tax and are physically incapable of telling the truth, so no I don't trust anything about the up coming Carbon Tax that Trudeau is about to impose on us.
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      10-29-2018, 10:21 AM   #81
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No, I mean that since I bought my GLK in July 2016 the price of fuel has gone from 94 cents a litre to $1.28 a litre this summer, much of that has to do with Kathleen Wynne's Cap and Trade. I know fuel goes up in the summer, I know that Doug Ford got elected in June and removed the Cap and Trade shortly after he was elected. I also know that when Kathleen Wynne implemented the Cap and Trade and told up that fuel prices would go up about 0.04 cents and that the increase would be about $4.00 a fill up and that in fact the increase was about $10 a fill up. Liberal politicians love tax and are physically incapable of telling the truth, so no I don't trust anything about the up coming Carbon Tax that Trudeau is about to impose on us.
But ever since Ford removed the cap and trade, fuel has gone down (haven't been tracking diesel admittedly). I just filled up at Costco for $1.19 premium - regular was $1.05. It's wonderful, especially since only a few short months ago under Wynne, gas was regularly $1.30 ish.
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      10-29-2018, 10:53 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
No, I mean that since I bought my GLK in July 2016 the price of fuel has gone from 94 cents a litre to $1.28 a litre this summer, much of that has to do with Kathleen Wynne's Cap and Trade. I know fuel goes up in the summer, I know that Doug Ford got elected in June and removed the Cap and Trade shortly after he was elected. I also know that when Kathleen Wynne implemented the Cap and Trade and told up that fuel prices would go up about 0.04 cents and that the increase would be about $4.00 a fill up and that in fact the increase was about $10 a fill up. Liberal politicians love tax and are physically incapable of telling the truth, so no I don't trust anything about the up coming Carbon Tax that Trudeau is about to impose on us.
The trouble with politicians like Ford is they are great at repealing but not replacing. Ford could have easily tweaked the cap and trade program to make it affordable for customers and at the same time meet the environmental targets like we are seeing in other provinces who have a provincial system in place. Don't blame the previous government, blame the current who have the ability to make changes.
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      10-29-2018, 03:48 PM   #83
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The trouble with politicians like Ford is they are great at repealing but not replacing. Ford could have easily tweaked the cap and trade program to make it affordable for customers and at the same time meet the environmental targets like we are seeing in other provinces who have a provincial system in place. Don't blame the previous government, blame the current who have the ability to make changes.
The challenge for politicians like Ford is that after almost 16 years of liberal government in Ontario there is a very big debt to be dealt with. What was happening here was unsustainable, so some very hard choices are going have to be made. We pay the highest electricity rates in North America, fuel is getting expensive and the additional taxes that are coming by way of the fed's is too much. Ford made promises to make it more affordable for folks in Ontario, he's been in power for what not quite 4 months, I'd say he's going in the right direction.
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      10-29-2018, 04:08 PM   #84
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The challenge for politicians like Ford is that after almost 16 years of liberal government in Ontario there is a very big debt to be dealt with. What was happening here was unsustainable, so some very hard choices are going have to be made. We pay the highest electricity rates in North America, fuel is getting expensive and the additional taxes that are coming by way of the fed's is too much. Ford made promises to make it more affordable for folks in Ontario, he's been in power for what not quite 4 months, I'd say he's going in the right direction.
The major investments from big companies has been slow. Many do what they to keep relevant, but itís hard to invest big bucks when you canít get a good long term financial outlook.

The company I work for was looking at building power/steam plant. Provide energy and steam for production, and put energy back into the grid while hiring skilled trades. The previous government has had no interest in assisting in these projects, so,itís been shelved after spending a few million just for impact studies.

Major investments require there to be a payback to the corporation, else it becomes just another BIG expense. People want jobs that last longer than a ten year payback, and these skilled jobs are excellent pay benefit Union jobs.

I think with good pay for both the employee and employer, there is plenty of money for initiating quality environmental change without feeling disenfranchised about a worthy goal.
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      10-29-2018, 04:20 PM   #85
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August 2016? I assume you mean 2018. Are you surprised that fuel prices increase during the summer driving season?
No, I mean that since I bought my GLK in July 2016 the price of fuel has gone from 94 cents a litre to $1.28 a litre this summer, much of that has to do with Kathleen Wynne's Cap and Trade. I know fuel goes up in the summer, I know that Doug Ford got elected in June and removed the Cap and Trade shortly after he was elected. I also know that when Kathleen Wynne implemented the Cap and Trade and told up that fuel prices would go up about 0.04 cents and that the increase would be about $4.00 a fill up and that in fact the increase was about $10 a fill up. Liberal politicians love tax and are physically incapable of telling the truth, so no I don't trust anything about the up coming Carbon Tax that Trudeau is about to impose on us.
Your first diesel?
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      10-29-2018, 04:25 PM   #86
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Your first diesel?
The GLK was my first, I just traded if for a newer one with almost no miles, big warranty and loaded. We really like them. Comfortable, with great fuel economy.
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      10-29-2018, 04:39 PM   #87
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Your first diesel?
The GLK was my first, I just traded if for a newer one with almost no miles, big warranty and loaded. We really like them. Comfortable, with great fuel economy.
The impact of crude price on diesel pump price is slower to appear compared to Petrol. Diesel is also cheaper in the summer, so that led to very low pump prices in 2016.
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      10-29-2018, 04:43 PM   #88
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The impact of crude price on diesel pump price is slower to appear compared to Petrol. Diesel is also cheaper in the summer, so that led to very low pump prices in 2016.
Perhaps, but there is still the fact that the price increase when cap and trade was brought in was easily identified, and fuel continued to go up after that to $1.28 litre.
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