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      09-06-2019, 03:57 PM   #1
EstorilM240
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Anti-car/pro-car politics? Biden wants to take millions of cars off the road w/ rail

I've started noticing a lot more anti car legislation and proposals recently.

Yesterday Joe Biden said he wants to build high speed rail to take millions of cars off the road.

What do you think? As today's 3 series is overwhelmingly more efficient and clean than a 3 series of 10 or 20 years ago, and BMW is developing more hybrid and electric cars, Tesla is making advancements with auto pilot and self driving cars, it seems really odd to push through so much emphasis on rail and demonizing cars/taking cars from Americans instead of other solutions.

A train from Salt Lake City to Boise and Helena is completely different from Amsterdam/Paris/neighboring cities and I can't see this being economically feasible. California passed a high speed rail funding act more than a decade ago and now the Democratic governor Gavin Newsom is scaling it back to not even connect LA / SF, focusing on the Central Valley only.

In Los Angeles, huge multi-billion dollar sales taxes for transportation have provided half or more of their funding to mass transit and less than half to freeways. Meanwhile, transit ridership has declined by 15%+ in the last 5 years, despite multiple subways opening and population growth.

Quote:
Despite a growing population and a booming economy, the number of trips taken on Los Angeles County’s bus and rail network last year fell to the lowest level in more than a decade.

Passengers on Metropolitan Transportation Authority buses and trains took 397.5 million trips in 2017, a decline of 15% over five years. Metro’s workhorse bus system, which carries about three-quarters of the system’s passengers, has seen a drop of nearly 21%.
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...124-story.html

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...627-story.html

As ridesharing continues to proliferate and reduce the need for centralized transit, governments continue to try to invest huge amounts of capital in these systems. There are even people saying electric cars and self-driving cars are distractions to today's issues, they still consistently propose more taxes to build more rail and bus. It seems like from a public perspective we can invest a lot in future technologies like smart roads that interact with cars and increase capacity, driver education, higher quality pavement and markings so self driving technology can work, light synchronization, research grants for self driving connected systems and integration or battery chemistry, instead of using 150+ year old rail.

Meanwhile, potholes abound in many Californian cities and the LA city council continually tries to reduce road capacity, remove travel lanes, or otherwise discourage auto usage. Cities collude with red light camera companies to devise unpopular schemes to ticket people for revenues. While Washington state has repealed its vehicle smog check program, in California you still have to deal with an ever complex test every two years or when you want to sell your car. There are more examples of these so I won't go into all of them.

OTOH, current pro-car legislation and deregulation: Orange County CA + Houston investing heavily in their freeway and carpool lane infrastructure, Texas increasing speed limits in West Texas to 80mph and 85mph, Washington State removing smog checks after 2020, and Ohio allowing for the removal of front license plate requirement after 2020. https://fox8.com/2019/04/02/ohio-bud...icense-plates/

A long time ago, Los Angeles and California were hailed as the center of car culture and cars were cool. Now, it seems like those in charge and in publications like Atlantic CityLab or NYT (Cars are Ruining Our Cities) actively hate on cars, demonize the "love affair" with cars, and cheer on the decline of peak car. Despite the average American living in areas with single family homes and not Manhattan, it seems like there is no car organization promoting pro-automobility policies and we are just along for the ride - the AAA doesn't do much.

What do you guys think, how will it affect cars going forward?

Last edited by EstorilM240; 09-06-2019 at 07:11 PM..
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      09-06-2019, 04:06 PM   #2
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So let's see... No cars, no guns, no beef.. So Trump 2020 it is.
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      09-06-2019, 04:25 PM   #3
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Regressives being regressive, at least Biden pushing for dawn of industrialization. AOC wants to regress us to the dark ages.
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      09-06-2019, 05:27 PM   #4
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Biden still has his Ď67 Corvette his daddy bought him new back then. Gas gulping V8 with no anti pollution devices so it spews CO, CO2 by the tons full. Hypocrite now wants to talk about heís going to save us all.
Hey Joe, Send your Vette to the car crusher, maybe heíll forget to remove himself from it before itís turned into a 2í cube and if he remembers to get out of the car heíll be heading off to hop in a big limo or a private jet. Typical lib, do as I say not as I do.
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      09-06-2019, 05:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EstorilM240 View Post
Biden wants hi speed rail so fewer people have to drive.....demonizing cars
I think that's a bit of an overreaction
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      09-06-2019, 05:46 PM   #6
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^ This. I think you're chasing windmills.
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      09-06-2019, 06:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
Biden still has his Ď67 Corvette his daddy bought him new back then. Gas gulping V8 with no anti pollution devices so it spews CO, CO2 by the tons full. Hypocrite now wants to talk about heís going to save us all.
Hey Joe, Send your Vette to the car crusher, maybe heíll forget to remove himself from it before itís turned into a 2í cube and if he remembers to get out of the car heíll be heading off to hop in a big limo or a private jet. Typical lib, do as I say not as I do.
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      09-06-2019, 06:54 PM   #8
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Look at AOC and her Uber bill. She has a NYC subway station within walking distance of her district office, but takes ride shares while telling everyone else to use the subway.....
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      09-06-2019, 06:55 PM   #9
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I should have expanded on the anti car / demonization of cars point, Joe Biden isn't really doing it. Here's what I mean:

State transportation departments need to give up on cars ... Maryland’s plan to expand its highways is part of a troubling pattern

To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

America's Cities Are Still Too Afraid to Make Driving Unappealing

This writer is criticizing Bernie Sanders for promoting electric vehicles and not reducing car usage.

Quote:
Each day that we continue to prioritize cars means more Americans will be displaced from their homes, diagnosed with chronic respiratory disease, or killed in traffic collisions so our communities can accommodate more vehicles. And even if all those vehicles are electric, they’ll still emit dangerous particulate matter, creating lifelong health issues for people who live near wide, busy roadways.
I am too lazy to add the sub-article links that went missing, but there is basically another anti-car article every other line in there.

Maybe I'm imagining things and this is all talk from a very small minority, but I have started to see a lot of these attitudes be put into practice in California. Perhaps it's a much smaller issue in the rest of the country.

Last edited by EstorilM240; 09-06-2019 at 07:14 PM..
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      09-06-2019, 08:04 PM   #10
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Wanting mass transit and high speed rail is not the same as demonizing cars. Way to miss his point.

Yesterday it took me 90 minutes to drive from my home to my business in Hollywood. A commute of 16 miles. If there was another way for me to get to Hollywood I would do it. Trust me, I don't like wasting 2.5 hours a day in my car. It's a nice car and all, but a mass transit system that could handle the load would allow me to drive less. Maybe even have me driving for pleasure only.

Sorry ideas like this are so infuriating for you.
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      09-06-2019, 08:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SumBMWGuy View Post
Wanting mass transit and high speed rail is not the same as demonizing cars. Way to miss his point.

Yesterday it took me 90 minutes to drive from my home to my business in Hollywood. A commute of 16 miles. If there was another way for me to get to Hollywood I would do it. Trust me, I don't like wasting 2.5 hours a day in my car. It's a nice car and all, but a mass transit system that could handle the load would allow me to drive less. Maybe even have me driving for pleasure only.

Sorry ideas like this are so infuriating for you.
Becoming a sanctuary state and allowing hordes of illegals to settle must do wonders for LA traffic.
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      09-07-2019, 12:02 AM   #12
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I love cars but would love to see half as many cars on the road. It's got nothing to do with loving cars. Just that most ppl that drive these days are idiots and traffic just too bad. It's better if these ppl were not on the road which would make roads more fun for ppl who like driving and like cars
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      09-07-2019, 08:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalS2k View Post
I love cars but would love to see half as many cars on the road. It's got nothing to do with loving cars. Just that most ppl that drive these days are idiots and traffic just too bad. It's better if these ppl were not on the road which would make roads more fun for ppl who like driving and like cars
That subjective and those half could say the same about you which the government will use to revoke everyone ability to drive.
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      09-07-2019, 09:01 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
That subjective and those half could say the same about you which the government will use to revoke everyone ability to drive.
These people are clowns. How fucked in the head do you have to be to try an eliminate cars in a nation with a massive car culture? Same goes for guns. It is almost as if the Democrats are doing everything possible to not win.
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      09-07-2019, 09:09 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
These people are clowns. How fucked in the head do you have to be to try an eliminate cars in a nation with a massive car culture? Same goes for guns. It is almost as if the Democrats are doing everything possible to not win.
This is the same party that require several points of proof to identify yourself to get a driver license but issue driver license with no proof to illegals or at least someone claiming to be one.
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      09-07-2019, 09:25 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
Becoming a sanctuary state and allowing hordes of illegals to settle must do wonders for LA traffic.
It wasn't a problem here in New Yorkistan until our idiot governor signed off on giving illegals state drivers licenses a few months ago.....
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      09-07-2019, 09:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
Biden still has his Ď67 Corvette his daddy bought him new back then. Gas gulping V8 with no anti pollution devices so it spews CO, CO2 by the tons full. Hypocrite now wants to talk about heís going to save us all.
Hey Joe, Send your Vette to the car crusher, maybe heíll forget to remove himself from it before itís turned into a 2í cube and if he remembers to get out of the car heíll be heading off to hop in a big limo or a private jet. Typical lib, do as I say not as I do.
Our virtue signalling PM has his daddy's Mercedes 300 SL, more from the do as I say crowd. Entitled to their entitlements.
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      09-07-2019, 10:15 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalS2k View Post
I love cars but would love to see half as many cars on the road. It's got nothing to do with loving cars. Just that most ppl that drive these days are idiots and traffic just too bad. It's better if these ppl were not on the road which would make roads more fun for ppl who like driving and like cars
Agreed, but the problem is you know that would never happen the way we want it to. Just like speed limits. The speed limit is 65 on most highways around here even though some drivers may have the skill to drive much faster safely. The same rules that apply to the 16 year old with a 2 week old license who is texting and driving doing 40mph in the fast lane have to apply to the guy with race track experience and driving certifications. The question would become why do some people get to drive and others don't? Most of the idiots on the road don't believe they suck at driving.

We also know that the lobbyists for the big three would never allow it to happen. Isn't that how we moved away from things like trolleys and trains early on?
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      09-07-2019, 01:51 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by CTinline-six View Post
Agreed, but the problem is you know that would never happen the way we want it to. Just like speed limits. The speed limit is 65 on most highways around here even though some drivers may have the skill to drive much faster safely. The same rules that apply to the 16 year old with a 2 week old license who is texting and driving doing 40mph in the fast lane have to apply to the guy with race track experience and driving certifications. The question would become why do some people get to drive and others don't? Most of the idiots on the road don't believe they suck at driving.

We also know that the lobbyists for the big three would never allow it to happen. Isn't that how we moved away from things like trolleys and trains early on?
If i reform the law it would be recommanded speed and if someone choose to go above it fine but if they cause or are in an accident and found guilty for causing it their lincese will be suspended for every mile above the recommended limit.

Same will apply for anyone 10 miles below it that way the law actually removes the bad drivers instead of being a tax revenue generation foe the state and leaving us with all theses awful drivers.
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      09-09-2019, 10:12 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by EstorilM240 View Post
huge multi-billion dollar sales taxes

they still consistently propose more taxes

ticket people for revenues.
THERE is your reason
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      09-09-2019, 04:48 PM   #21
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Every time I hear the pie-in-the-sky talk of high-speed rail replacing other forms of transportation I think of how it will never happen. As evidence, I anecdotally point to all the Bergen County (read: wealthy) towns in NJ that stymie just an EXTENSION of a LIGHT RAIL line through their communities.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nort...rridor_Project

What would a high speed train passing though several times a day do to your community? Sounds horrible. People will fight this like your trying to steal their children.

I didn't even get into the attractiveness (or lack there of) of it talking a whole day to travel from NY to Miami. So your 7-day vacation just became 5 days; with 2 spent on a train. What a horrible joke.
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      09-09-2019, 06:23 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
As evidence, I anecdotally point to all the Bergen County (read: wealthy) towns in NJ that stymie just an EXTENSION of a LIGHT RAIL line through their communities.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nort...rridor_Project

What would a high speed train passing though several times a day do to your community? Sounds horrible. People will fight this like your trying to steal their children.
I've heard that running a single diesel locomotive up the electrified NJ Transit Boonton branch results in all kinds of complaints in Trenton about the noise and smelly pollution.....
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