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      03-18-2019, 11:48 AM   #1
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Trump's Veto

So, Trump made his first Veto as POTUS. He wants a wall built because he sincerely feels that this country needs it for national security. If you look at the stats from previous POTUS's, you'll see how many Vetos they have done compared to Trump. It's concerning how big of a deal the left and even some on the right have made this. When POTUS's like Obama made 12 Vetos, none of them were as big of a deal as Trump's one Veto

I say having a wall is more of a deterrent than no wall, so build it!
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      03-18-2019, 12:17 PM   #2
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Hypothetically speaking... Why isn't cutting aid an option? Perhaps cutting financial aid to any country who is having the greatest exodus of migrants who are coming to the US would wake up those countries and have them work with us. In addition this would offset majority of the costs and burdens the US has by taking in these individuals. Why continue sending money to these places where the people are leaving and the corrupt are misappropriating and squandering the funds? This is like sending child support to your ex-wife but the kids live with you. Doesn't make sense.
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      03-18-2019, 12:28 PM   #3
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You have to take into account why this veto happened though.

That makes it different from other vetoes by previous Presidents.
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      03-18-2019, 12:41 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
You have to take into account why this veto happened though.

That makes it different from other vetoes by previous Presidents.
Explain please

So drugs, criminals, and 2500 illegals coming into our country daily costing $8000 each is not a crisis? I guess if one lives in a gated community or already gets everything for free its no problem.

And honestly its no problem for me physically at the age of 73. I would like to say I pity young people, buy they are accepting it. Venezuela was the richest country in S.A. now they are the poorest. All countries fall..many bc of their own undoing..we could be one.

We have a military that is stronger than the combined militaries of the world and can't stop an invasion that will ultimately do us in.
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      03-18-2019, 12:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
You have to take into account why this veto happened though.

That makes it different from other vetoes by previous Presidents.
Regardless, it's entirely justified.
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      03-18-2019, 12:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
You have to take into account why this veto happened though.

That makes it different from other vetoes by previous Presidents.
Explain please

So drugs, criminals, and 2500 illegals coming into our country daily costing $8000 each is not a crisis? I guess if one lives in a gated community or already gets everything for free its no problem.

And honestly its no problem for me physically at the age of 73. I would like to say I pity young people, buy they are accepting it. Venezuela was the richest country in S.A. now they are the poorest. All countries fall..many bc of their own undoing..we could be one.

We have a military that is stronger than the combined militaries of the world and can't stop an invasion that will ultimately do us in.
What invasion? We're at a low point in illegal immigration in this country.

Drugs come in through ports of entry, not the unprotected border.

Demographics of a country change, it sounds like that is what is causing you the biggest heartache. Those demographics have been changing since this country was founded.

Illegal immigration isn't going to bankrupt us or cause this country to fail. That goes back to my earlier point where it sounds like you just don't want the demographics to change.
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      03-18-2019, 01:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
What invasion? We're at a low point in illegal immigration in this country.
No we are not; illegal immigration broke ten year highs.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/05/u...-increase.html

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/media-r...=Border+Patrol

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...record-numbers

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Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
Drugs come in through ports of entry, not the unprotected border.
What about the economic effect it has the country, state and cities?

https://www.watchdog.org/national/re...a8b2d3b38.html

Last edited by iconoclast; 03-18-2019 at 01:10 PM..
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      03-18-2019, 01:07 PM   #8
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Its like you didn't even bother to do any research from the very website you posted.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/fi...rea-fy2018.pdf

Why did you quote me about drugs then talk about Medicaid?

That's because they show up at emergency rooms. Unless we just start to let them die in the streets like the rest of our uninsured.
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      03-18-2019, 01:15 PM   #9
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the common rebuttal is always "drugs come from xyz not the border"; that may be true but what about everything else besides the "drugs"??? it is about all the factors and areas of the country impacted. what is bizarre is that when BO deporting people it wasn't racist, when he made speeches about barriers and learning english and other things it was not racist or xenophobic and the numbers were higher. now all this is "immoral". as a taxpayer i would prefer our taxes go to us citizens. we dont even have enough money for our own people let alone taking in others. look at the VA system, look at our infrastructure, look at our homeless epidemic, hell look at detroit and most of new orleans, flint doesnt even have clean water yet but we're helping out others? c'mon; where does it end? you say sarcastically "let them die in the street" but they're not supposed to be on our streets to begin with. if they weren't here we wouldn't have the additional burdens and the funds could be used for citizens who need it.
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      03-18-2019, 01:25 PM   #10
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One definition of "invasion" is the incoming or spread of something usually hurtful.

Illegal immigration is illegal for a reason.

Quantification is subjective.
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      03-18-2019, 01:26 PM   #11
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When people complain about drugs coming across the border, it's absolutely correct to counter with the facts. They don't come across the unwalled border in any significant amount.

Look how many immigrants overstay their visa vice walk across the border. But I still haven't seen anyone discuss that.

You're so concerned with the costs yet throwing money at a wall is ok, a wall that will have a negligible effect.

Illegal immigration is down. It has been. Look at the numbers from 2000 then look at the recent years from the CBP itself. It's a self proclaimed emergency/invasion that doesn't hold up to any scrutiny. But hey, gotta keep the base happy.
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      03-18-2019, 01:29 PM   #12
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Its truly amazing (and embarrassing) how a negative light is shone upon this man for every single action and non-action that he makes.

I have truly lost faith in mainstream media since his election...

#TRUMP2020
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      03-18-2019, 01:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
Look at the numbers from 2000 then look at the recent years from the CBP itself. It's a self proclaimed emergency/invasion that doesn't hold up to any scrutiny. But hey, gotta keep the base happy.
So, it's 20 years late that the others didn't get shit done. +1 for Trump.


No, I wrote in the Mayor of San Diego.
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      03-18-2019, 01:51 PM   #14
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https://www.factcheck.org/2019/03/vi...der-wall-spin/


https://www.factcheck.org/2019/02/fa...gency-remarks/
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      03-18-2019, 02:00 PM   #15
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If my country were falling apart and there were violence in the streets, I would move my family to the safest country that we could get into. Especially one that has made efforts to offer asylum to people in those exact circumstances. I would carry them 1000 miles to see them safe. A little empathy can go a long way.
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      03-18-2019, 02:13 PM   #16
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All the coverage I’ve seen of the veto has only been critical from the perspectives of 1) congress wanting to control the purse and 2) whether this is really an emergency. I haven’t seen any major outlets running stories bashing him for using his veto power in general. It’s his right.

Granted, I haven’t spent time digging for such coverage, but as a consumer of “mainstream media” that isn’t the impression I get.

Also, as a lover of drugs, it’s time to stop blaming immigrants for this shit. Nobody is coming over the border and forcing anybody to buy or use something they don’t want. There’s a market because Americans want these substances. Build as big of a wall as you want, that will not change. People will find a way to get what they want. Tbh, connoisseurs aren’t after Mexican shit anyway.
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      03-18-2019, 02:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
Look at the numbers from 2000 then look at the recent years from the CBP itself. It's a self proclaimed emergency/invasion that doesn't hold up to any scrutiny. But hey, gotta keep the base happy.
So, it's 20 years late that the others didn't get shit done. +1 for Trump.


No, I wrote in the Mayor of San Diego.
It's been in decline long before Trump took office.
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      03-18-2019, 02:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogeeseegod View Post
If my country were falling apart and there were violence in the streets, I would move my family to the safest country that we could get into. Especially one that has made efforts to offer asylum to people in those exact circumstances. I would carry them 1000 miles to see them safe. A little empathy can go a long way.
if a homeless person and or family snuck into your house and just decided to stay there because their quality of life is horrible would let them stay or would you notify the authorities and have them help the individuals find the appropriate place to stay legally? i do not have any issues with individuals or families here coming legally and applying for citizenship or seeking asylum without gaming the system. my issue lies with people illegally entering or abusing the system through loopholes or other avenues which takes away from individuals who may need it more or benefit from these resources. not just at the southern border but nationally and from any country where individuals like this hail from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
When people complain about drugs coming across the border, it's absolutely correct to counter with the facts. They don't come across the unwalled border in any significant amount.
okay, i am making an economic case in addition to addressing domestic issues for our citizens before lending a helping hand to individuals that enter illegally.

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Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
You're so concerned with the costs yet throwing money at a wall is ok, a wall that will have a negligible effect.
i believe the left says that if banning guns saves one life then it is worth it. if putting up a wall deters one illegal then it is worth it. no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
Illegal immigration is down. It has been. Look at the numbers from 2000 then look at the recent years from the CBP itself. It's a self proclaimed emergency/invasion that doesn't hold up to any scrutiny. But hey, gotta keep the base happy.
why wasn't it immoral,racist or xenophobic when hillary, schumer, pelosi and bo were against illegal immigration and for deportation and physical barriers? secondly, what about the other links that i show stating it is at 10yr highs. even npr and nyt are stating 76k people entered illegally in one month alone and the border cannot handle this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=L_021L3PN3k

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c43510...migration-sotu




Last edited by iconoclast; 03-18-2019 at 02:47 PM..
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      03-18-2019, 03:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
what about the other links that i show stating it is at 10yr highs. even npr and nyt are stating 76k people entered illegally in one month alone and the border cannot handle this.
Anything showing a 10 year high seems to be pretty much - well, completely incorrect. See image below from a place you'd expect to be correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
i believe the left says that if banning guns saves one life then it is worth it. if putting up a wall deters one illegal then it is worth it. no?
Interesting, and you have a point. I don't think it supports the idea we should have a wall, but I do think it supports the idea we shouldn't ban guns. In both cases the actions don't necessarily solve the problems. But that's a different subject.

Chart below is apprehensions for illegal border crossing. It's not the same as how many made it through, but one could logically decide that they would be proportional.
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      03-18-2019, 03:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogeeseegod View Post
If my country were falling apart and there were violence in the streets, I would move my family to the safest country that we could get into. Especially one that has made efforts to offer asylum to people in those exact circumstances. I would carry them 1000 miles to see them safe. A little empathy can go a long way.
I have plenty of empathy for these people. It's rough down there. However, there are plenty of closer countries that they could go to for a safe new life rather than traveling to America. People acting like America is the only place they can be safe in, is nonsense.
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      03-18-2019, 03:48 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
When people complain about drugs coming across the border, it's absolutely correct to counter with the facts. They don't come across the unwalled border in any significant amount.

Look how many immigrants overstay their visa vice walk across the border. But I still haven't seen anyone discuss that. .
Actually a very large portion come right through the border check. Border agents are paid to allow them to pass. I have first hand knowledge of this. Perhaps, cutting down on the corruption would be an idea.
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      03-18-2019, 03:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PR3CI5N View Post
People acting like America is the only place they can be safe in, is nonsense.
Be safe and get FREE stuff.

America would be the closest to them.

Canada is somewhat safe, we call our wall the United States of America...
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