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      09-13-2019, 11:59 AM   #2377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Nothing about the cars have given me a bad impression of tesla - not the build quality, interior, tech, or anything else directly related to the cars. It's the Tesla owner's that have left me with a bad impression about tesla. I appreciate that their making trend setting cars, but if owning one means joining, or being lumped into the obnoxious cult that's associated with the brand, I'd rather not.
I really appreciate the honesty here - that you are not tying to bash Tesla (or anyone else for that matter) based on made up "facts".

I do like BMWs - the ones launched before 2012 anyway (E90, E46, E39, even E60 with the bangleness), as well as Minis (still own one and love it). The point I keep making is the current crop is far from competitive. Forget about Tesla - everyone from Audi to Alfa already was ahead in driver involvement and BMW is not course correcting.

You will also notice that I am posting in a thread specifically about Tesla. I thought that was the point of having this thread. Tell me if you disagree.
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      09-13-2019, 12:04 PM   #2378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 440xiGCMSport2 View Post
Top notch material and Tesla don't belong in the same sentence.

This is not "a forum for performance cars", it is a forum for luxury sport sedans. BMW is a luxury manufacturer, not a pure sports car manufacturer so luxury plays a huge roll in BMW buyers' minds.
I would respectfully beg to differ. BMW markets its cars as Performance cars (notice I didn't say sports cars) not luxury couches. If wanted a luxury car, I wouldn't have bought any of my Exx bmws - would have gone straight to Benz or Lexus.
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      09-13-2019, 12:14 PM   #2379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ras550 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 440xiGCMSport2 View Post
Top notch material and Tesla don't belong in the same sentence.

This is not "a forum for performance cars", it is a forum for luxury sport sedans. BMW is a luxury manufacturer, not a pure sports car manufacturer so luxury plays a huge roll in BMW buyers' minds.
I would respectfully beg to differ. BMW markets its cars as Performance cars (notice I didn't say sports cars) not luxury couches. If wanted a luxury car, I wouldn't have bought any of my Exx bmws - would have gone straight to Benz or Lexus.
It's all semantics at the end of the day. Buy a new BMW if you like it and if you don't move on. The market is littered with choice.
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      09-13-2019, 03:58 PM   #2380
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Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
It's all semantics at the end of the day. Buy a new BMW if you like it and if you don't move on. The market is littered with choice.
Not really
Inline 6 silky smooth turbo charged manual transmission sedan with luxury interior
Is there another choice offered?
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      09-16-2019, 09:41 AM   #2381
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https://insideevs.com/news/370286/bm...v-by-2021/amp/
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      09-16-2019, 02:08 PM   #2382
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Well, if Tesla ever fails as a car company I think they could still make a pretty penny manufacturing parts.

https://www.sfgate.com/cars/article/...r-13796037.php
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      09-16-2019, 05:44 PM   #2383
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Originally Posted by allinon72 View Post
That'll surely please the 7 people who insist on a "vegan car interior." Seriously, give me a god damn break.
It has nothing to do with vegans. I had alcantara seats on my E46 ZHP. Loved it. Would absolutely do it again if it was offered. Give it a try.
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      09-16-2019, 08:30 PM   #2384
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No doubt electric car is the future but this is still the present. The electric charging infrastructure aren't quite there. The charge time is still much too long. The battery life is also questionable. Then there's battery waste disposal.

You also don't see an electric car running the 24 hours LeMans
Audi came close with their Diesel hybrid electric but not full electric.

Hybrid is the best of both worlds and will likely be the interim solution. Eventually they will put a big enough battery in a plug-in-hybrid that will give you the range but also the security of going the distance if needed.

Also, you don't see many people with ICE with range anxiety like you would an all electric car driver.
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      09-17-2019, 09:34 AM   #2385
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Another day another fire.

https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a...brinna-i-satet
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      09-19-2019, 02:33 PM   #2386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam View Post
It has nothing to do with vegans. I had alcantara seats on my E46 ZHP. Loved it. Would absolutely do it again if it was offered. Give it a try.

I had leather seats on my E46 ZHP and they were the worst seats I've had. Poor quality leather that started wearing very fast. My E90 seats lasted much longer.
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      09-19-2019, 05:18 PM   #2387
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Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
Over 57,000 vehicle fires per year in the USA: meh

Any time a Tesla catches fire somewhere in the world: front page news
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      09-19-2019, 05:18 PM   #2388
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Originally Posted by Ras550 View Post
I had leather seats on my E46 ZHP and they were the worst seats I've had. Poor quality leather that started wearing very fast. My E90 seats lasted much longer.
i have a set of leather seats in a 1999 lexus es300 that are over 300k miles
we use it as a beater for my dad who now drives 5-10 miles a day picking up groceries and the grandkids
we've had the car since new and the leather is like 85% NEW
2 kids went to college with it, myself and my sister and 2 sets of grandchildren with countless child seats
depends on how you take care of the car I guess
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      09-19-2019, 08:21 PM   #2389
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Tesla in charging station powered by Diesel. Pollute for the greater good!

https://twitter.com/MichaelMulinski/...811201/photo/1


Quote:
Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam View Post
Over 57,000 vehicle fires per year in the USA: meh

Any time a Tesla catches fire somewhere in the world: front page news
let's speak in percentages. what percent of all tesla vehicles on the road caught fire or have had autopilot issues? let's speak in percentages some more...
less than 3% of passenger car/truck (non-commercial) vehicles are diesel. even less than that were VAG TDI products at the time when the diesel scandal unfolded. let's talk about what makes front page news.
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      09-19-2019, 09:12 PM   #2390
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Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
let's speak in percentages. what percent of all tesla vehicles on the road caught fire or have had autopilot issues?
You can read their report they publish every quarter that discusses both of these issues. Whether or not you should trust it is a different story.
https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

Alternatively you can read MIT's study on Autopilot.
https://hcai.mit.edu/human-side-of-tesla-autopilot/

No one outside of Tesla has done an official study tabbing the number of Tesla vehicle fires, but an estimate can be found somewhere between 30-80 since 2013 while being generous with the high end of Tesla's claim. Tesla claims 40.

In other words, with the data we have today, a Tesla fire is still extremely rare. The news reports it as a crazy common scary event in the same way they do plane crashes. People have piss poor selective memory; we see two instances of something and call it a trend. This is why data is important.

It's reported so heavily because it's brand new technology, it's a significant shift in how we've traditionally powered vehicles, nearly everyone drives, car fires are scary, and Elon Musk is vocal and rich. People eat that shit up and ad revenue soars. This is nothing new from what the media has always done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
less than 3% of passenger car/truck (non-commercial) vehicles are diesel. even less than that were VAG TDI products at the time when the diesel scandal unfolded. let's talk about what makes front page news.
Yeah. Exactly. Dumb shit makes front page news. It makes it nice and easy to buy a used diesel VW from that era because people think there's something wrong with them thanks to sensationalist journalism.

Last edited by Welcome to NBA Jam; 09-19-2019 at 09:43 PM..
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      09-20-2019, 10:22 AM   #2391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikkagtr View Post
i have a set of leather seats in a 1999 lexus es300 that are over 300k miles
we use it as a beater for my dad who now drives 5-10 miles a day picking up groceries and the grandkids
we've had the car since new and the leather is like 85% NEW
2 kids went to college with it, myself and my sister and 2 sets of grandchildren with countless child seats
depends on how you take care of the car I guess
that's definitely one side of the equation.

However, as I said, I had no problems with my E90 or E39 leather seats. Lasted for quite some time. my E46 seats were a different story - just poor quality leather and started wearing within a few years. Same care regimen.
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      09-21-2019, 10:22 AM   #2392
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LMAO. Porsche Taycan lapping a broken down Tesla at the Nurburgring. What a Musktake it was to bring this thing to the ring.

https://twitter.com/evdefender/statu...380870/video/1
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      09-23-2019, 09:13 AM   #2393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
LMAO. Porsche Taycan lapping a broken down Tesla at the Nurburgring. What a Musktake it was to bring this thing to the ring.

https://twitter.com/evdefender/statu...380870/video/1
well, let's be fair here.
They brought 2 Model S. They prep-ed and setup the whole thing, including the now in-famous diesel generator super-chargers, in less than 1 week.
One broke down, but the other beat the Taycan by a huge 20s. Granted, that's unofficial timing, taken by hand and based not on visual, as the finish line was over the hill. But the Taycan's time is also unofficial.
Tesla was not in the list of manufacturer's private test schedule, which takes months to reserve. It was also their first time on the Ring, as opposed to Porsche who has the Ring as their dev back yard.
We should give them props for the attempt. They will do it again in a few months.
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      09-23-2019, 11:31 AM   #2394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Thank you. This post progresses the discussion and brings us back to some resemblance of being on topic.

My original point it is a dumb business decision for BMW to design their M automobiles so a large segment of people couldn't (or wouldn't) own even if they found the product alluring. This is reality for condo/apartment dwellers. As soon as the discussion dips into buying and keeping a smelly generator in my 1-bedroom condo I couldn't be more OUT.
I live in an apartment too. The building is only a few years old and located in one of the most affluent and progressive areas in a blue state. Yet our building only has 6 EV charging parking spaces for 254 apartments, most of which are 2 and 3-bedroom units. EV ownership is a complete non-starter for me.
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      09-23-2019, 11:39 AM   #2395
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Originally Posted by pennsiveguy View Post
I live in an apartment too. The building is only a few years old and located in one of the most affluent and progressive areas in a blue state. Yet our building only has 6 EV charging parking spaces for 254 apartments, most of which are 2 and 3-bedroom units. EV ownership is a complete non-starter for me.
Interesting... so, in an ideal EV scenario, say we move away from ICE completely, what would a building like yours be like? 254 super-chargers in the parking lot?
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      09-23-2019, 11:49 AM   #2396
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Originally Posted by MPBK View Post
Interesting... so, in an ideal EV scenario, say we move away from ICE completely, what would a building like yours be like? 254 super-chargers in the parking lot?
I'm guessing the number of garage stalls (all underground, under the building) is around 500. Just a guess. It would take a massive amount of current every evening to charge all the vehicles that went to and from work that day. Complicating things further is the fact that we have extended periods of sub-zero weather which greatly reduce battery capacity...so leaving in the morning with less than a full charge would be a really bad - perhaps even life-threatening - idea.
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      09-24-2019, 10:51 AM   #2397
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At least Tesla is consistent. Both their cars and solar panels catch fire:

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology...ential-rooftop


Omission and fraud?
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/23/tesl...ourt-docs.html
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      09-24-2019, 11:40 AM   #2398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPBK View Post
Interesting... so, in an ideal EV scenario, say we move away from ICE completely, what would a building like yours be like? 254 super-chargers in the parking lot?
You don't need super chargers if you have all night to recharge. In Norway (which is sort of a glimpse into the future with regards to EVs) being able to charge your EV at home is still a problem if you actually don't have a parking space close to your home (which is the situation for some if you leave in a bigger city and need to rely on street parking), but in things like apartment complexes, it's pretty common that all garages/parking spaces owned by those who live there have a charging connector. For people who live in houses it's obviously not a problem. And in the future those who live in apartments in cities will probably to a greater extent rely on car pooling etc.

Sad for the car enthusiast, but that's the future for you..
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