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      10-15-2019, 03:07 PM   #1035
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https://youtu.be/nUHNATBzFjE

Farah’s test.
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      10-15-2019, 03:23 PM   #1036
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The C7 was and is a monster on entry and mid corner handling. Its weakness was putting the power down, which seems to have been solved.
At the expense of entry and mid corner handling.

Here's my honest opinion. I think it's an incredible task to forgo 50+ years of heritage and development, and that for such a huge, drastic departure, GM was able to build something wonderful.

If I were to be facetious, I'd say, for their first attempt at a mid engine Corvette, it's pretty good. In all honesty, it IS a pretty incredible car. Especially considering the fact that they had taken such a drastic departure from what they do. And if I were a second guessing man, which I am, I'd REALLY be second guessing if the move to mid engine is really going to be the game changer Tadge promised us.

But given the first generation of mid engine Corvette is THIS good, I'm excited for the C9 and C10 as the incremental improvement on this entirely new architecture is going to make the car PHENOMENAL. But I've also always contended, that the C8's biggest competitor is the C7, as the C7 was already an insane value compared to its other mid engine competitors. That no matter how much better the chassis is, it will forever be compared to the C7 in a way that isn't fair. The C7 is so insanely good that people WILL expect the C8 to be just otherworldly BETTER, and I don't think it is nor it can.

And I think Jim Mero hinted at that too.
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      10-15-2019, 03:27 PM   #1037
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I guess I was hoping GM would put the same chassis dynamics team to work that made the Camaro or recent Cadillac V's great limit performers.

Perhaps they still will. But, the reviews we've seen so far are what I would have expected for the non Z51 base car, with the Z51 being praised for its feedback and limit behavior.
I'm betting they won't.

Neither the Caddy's nor the Camaros are shattering any sales records. People don't buy "dynamics at the limit" but they'll buy comfort, luxury, 0-60 time...etc. Stuff they can touch and feel. The rest is just bonus that those of us who claim to be "car enthusiasts" desire, and we're but a small bunch, a niche, if you will.

Especially with the drive to electrify, I think we've pretty much hit peak driver's car. There's not going to be anything that would satisfy like it used to between the 90s and early 2000s IMO, and dynamic driving experience(s) don't sell cars anymore.
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      10-15-2019, 03:32 PM   #1038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
I guess I was hoping GM would put the same chassis dynamics team to work that made the Camaro or recent Cadillac V's great limit performers.

Perhaps they still will. But, the reviews we've seen so far are what I would have expected for the non Z51 base car, with the Z51 being praised for its feedback and limit behavior.
I'm betting they won't.

Neither the Caddy's nor the Camaros are shattering any sales records. People don't buy "dynamics at the limit" but they'll buy comfort, luxury, 0-60 time...etc. Stuff they can touch and feel. The rest is just bonus that those of us who claim to be "car enthusiasts" desire, and we're but a small bunch, a niche, if you will.

Especially with the drive to electrify, I think we've pretty much hit peak driver's car. There's not going to be anything that would satisfy like it used to between the 90s and early 2000s IMO, and dynamic driving experience(s) don't sell cars anymore.
This exactly. M Cars have been softened and pushed towards luxury pretty much since the start. Certainly worked for their sales. Even if purists want to cry about it.
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      10-15-2019, 03:35 PM   #1039
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The only thing I have an irrational love for is the BMW MZ4 Coupe.
That's interesting because the Grand Sport is a much faster car :-)

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Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
this move to mid engine seems to primarily benefit the straight-line performance, not the twisty stuff as we're all promised.
I would disagree with this. Once they have the suspension tuning all sorted out, it will be a lot better than the C7 version. Just like when the current Mustang came out, it was all over the place. Now people all going dooh daaah over the GT350R but it's basically the same car fundamentally.

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Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
At this point there's nothing in the C8 that will make me want to eat 1.5 years of depreciation though, besides it's the newest and shiniest object in the automotive industry.
My feeling all along has been that the C8 is basically a Corvette albeit with the engine in the middle. People who are putting deposits right now expecting a $60K 911 or R8 or McLaren will be very disappointed. But if you keep your perspectives in check, for $60 (with options up to $80K), it's not bad.

Based on the Farah's vid, the folks at RT pretty much commented that after all the initial Corvette mid engine novelties worn off, they all came back down to earth.
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      10-15-2019, 04:15 PM   #1040
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C7 looks better too
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      10-15-2019, 04:54 PM   #1041
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C7 1:27.0
C8 1:26.1

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
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      10-15-2019, 05:58 PM   #1042
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At the expense of entry and mid corner handling.
No doubt. But there aren’t many cars if any that are as good as the C7 in that category, especially MR/RR cars. That’s what made the C5-7 so quick. You had later C7’s approaching 1.2g on the skidpad which is better than anything I can think of outside the lastest GT2/3’s on Cup 2R’s.

Going to this layout has its advantages and disadvantages and I’ll maintain that handling was not the main point of this exercise. Putting down 600-800hp without traction issues and furthering the Corvette’s ability to run with competition 2-4x its price will be much easier this go around.
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      10-15-2019, 08:39 PM   #1043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestRace View Post

My feeling all along has been that the C8 is basically a Corvette albeit with the engine in the middle. People who are putting deposits right now expecting a $60K 911 or R8 or McLaren will be very disappointed. But if you keep your perspectives in check, for $60 (with options up to $80K), it's not bad.

Based on the Farah's vid, the folks at RT pretty much commented that after all the initial Corvette mid engine novelties worn off, they all came back down to earth.
yeah i agree. people are just salivating at the latest new shiny object. Same thing with the supra, dodge demon, gt350r. Then the initial reviews hit and everyone comes back down to earth. Its still gonna feel and smell like a corvette.

i still find it interesting that the 6600 rpm redline feels low to farah. it is the lowest revving mid or rear engine car on sale apparently though. maybe its the gear ratios. i didn't notice any issues with a short redline when i drove a viper.
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      10-16-2019, 09:32 AM   #1044
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C8 Corvette vs 992

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...n-test-review/

Last edited by See5; 10-16-2019 at 09:38 AM..
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      10-16-2019, 10:45 AM   #1045
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I was never a fan of the Corvette, but always appreciated the performance / value quotient. Considering GM was working on this mid-engine Corvette for years (decades?), I think the styling ended up mediocre at best. The rear looks like it was designed by a committee. Apparently starting with a clean sheet, the design could have been "timeless" as were the early Corvettes (or the 911, or the Ford GT).
They did address the interior, which I think was more effective than the exterior...IMO.
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      10-16-2019, 11:00 AM   #1046
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Really disappointed with the track driving characteristics, hopefully they fix the suspension and wire brake tuning as this is still a pre-production model.
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      10-16-2019, 11:00 AM   #1047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See5 View Post
The interior seems to be pretty universally agreed to be fixed (finally).

Quote:
It's not just impacts, either. The Corvette allows far less engine and road noise into the cabin than the 911. There's more noise from those big tires, especially the front ones right next to your feet, but you can have a whispered conversation at 80 mph in the Corvette. You'll have to speak up a little in the Porsche.

It's just one of the ways in which the Corvette's cabin is nicer than the 911's, a sentence we feared we'd never get to write. The Corvette's notoriously cheap materials, gaping panel gaps, and persistent smell of glue have all been banished—and this was in an early-build car, no less.

The previous Corvette generation showed us Chevrolet could afford to give the car both performance and a nice interior, but the C8 has skipped straight past nice and into proper supercar territory. The leather is the best we've seen and felt in a Corvette by a wide margin, there's no cheap-looking hard plastic anywhere (well … the cupholders are a bit of a wince), and the seats (midgrade GT2s, in this case) strike a balance between comfort and lateral support that even some supercar builders don't get right.

Granted, our Corvette was a top-shelf 3LT trim level with the best interior you can yet buy for the car, but you can do that when the as-tested price is a Silverado less than the 911—which had zero interior dress-up options, at that. Sure, Porsche will wrap the air vent blades in leather if you put enough zeroes on the check, but out of the box, it's a stark field of dark grays and blacks all finished in varying grades of plastic and piano black. Our Carrera didn't even have power seats.

We also found the Corvette's controls more intuitively laid out—even that long strip of Chiclet buttons down the center console—though we did appreciate the Porsche's programmable hot keys on the dash and steering wheel. Similarly, the Corvette's infotainment system is less cluttered and layered, and it's easier to read at a glance and operate while the car is in motion.

The Corvette's highly customizable digital dash and the bits of theater provided by the transitions between screens won many points over the 911's pair of screens—which flank the analog tachometer and are absurdly obscured by the steering wheel. The Corvette's squircle steering wheel might take a little getting used to, but it affords a clear view of all the information on the instrument cluster.
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      10-16-2019, 12:19 PM   #1048
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Quote:
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Gee price aside i'd take the 911 all day. Not because performance understeer or any of that rubbish but it looks so clean, so sleek and those nice big hips. The vette is a mess to the eye.

TBH, I know I will win no friends with this comment, I don't get the need for all this low rev torque on a sports car. If it's a track car, i get it,if it's a daily driver grocery getter i get it as it makes DDing easier but dear me, sportscar?? I want revs, and a little theatre, torque just robs you of that on the street when hustling something nimble.

Can honestly say I'd take 991.1 GTS with the 430HP NA engine over anything else for the road right now.
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      10-16-2019, 12:30 PM   #1049
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Gee price aside i'd take the 911 all day. Not because performance understeer or any of that rubbish but it looks so clean, so sleek and those nice big hips. The vette is a mess to the eye.

TBH, I know I will win no friends with this comment, I don't get the need for all this low rev torque on a sports car. If it's a track car, i get it,if it's a daily driver grocery getter i get it as it makes DDing easier but dear me, sportscar?? I want revs, and a little theatre, torque just robs you of that on the street when hustling something nimble.

Can honestly say I'd take 991.1 GTS with the 430HP NA engine over anything else for the road right now.
I totally understand, there's a different feeling to working for the power and being able to rev an engine all the way past 8k RPM or higher. Its more fun, involving, and sounds even better. Its the reason cars like the Miata, even though they're considered slow they are fun in that you have to work for the power. Its the whole slow car fast idea.
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      10-16-2019, 12:39 PM   #1050
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Keep seeing term brake-by-wire thrown around. The C8 does not have brake-by-wire. It is still hydraulic brakes with a brake booster, but with a electric boost vs vacuum. Meaning whatever is being felt(pedal feel) now in the pre-production models can be altered. Really these articles should start calling it drive-by-wire.

Last edited by hellrotm; 10-16-2019 at 12:47 PM..
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      10-16-2019, 12:40 PM   #1051
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Right but the Miata is gutless, there's a tipping point that I think the NA 997.2 and 991.1 engines nailed perfectly.
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      10-16-2019, 12:44 PM   #1052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See5 View Post
No doubt. But there aren’t many cars if any that are as good as the C7 in that category, especially MR/RR cars. That’s what made the C5-7 so quick. You had later C7’s approaching 1.2g on the skidpad which is better than anything I can think of outside the lastest GT2/3’s on Cup 2R’s.

Going to this layout has its advantages and disadvantages and I’ll maintain that handling was not the main point of this exercise. Putting down 600-800hp without traction issues and furthering the Corvette’s ability to run with competition 2-4x its price will be much easier this go around.
The C8 platform will mature. I have zero doubts there is loads of performance yet to untapped. They are saving it for future models. Mid corner understeer can easily be remedied. I personally think they put that in the base car for a reason, safety. They don't want everyone pulling a Mustang out of every cars and coffee once first batches are delivered.
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      10-16-2019, 12:58 PM   #1053
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Quote:
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Right but the Miata is gutless, there's a tipping point that I think the NA 997.2 and 991.1 engines nailed perfectly.
Of course, I was just using the Miata as an example of how NA engines can be more engaging and fun
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      10-16-2019, 01:09 PM   #1054
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Here is the main difference between the 911S and the C8. You enjoy the 911 S all the time - on the track or going for grocery trips due to its race car inspire construction. You only get to enjoy the C8 when you're 10/10 on the track because its uncommunicative and less then inspired chassis. They say the C8 rides like a Rolls Royce but that's also its downfall since that's exactly how it feels just mowing around town while the 911S is orgasm induced just sitting in the garage :-)
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      10-16-2019, 01:42 PM   #1055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestRace View Post
Here is the main difference between the 911S and the C8. You enjoy the 911 S all the time - on the track or going for grocery trips due to its race car inspire construction. You only get to enjoy the C8 when you're 10/10 on the track because its uncommunicative and less then inspired chassis. They say the C8 rides like a Rolls Royce but that's also its downfall since that's exactly how it feels just mowing around town while the 911S is orgasm induced just sitting in the garage :-)
And how many times have you driven the C8?
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      10-16-2019, 01:44 PM   #1056
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Quote:
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Here is the main difference between the 911S and the C8. You enjoy the 911 S all the time - on the track or going for grocery trips due to its race car inspire construction. You only get to enjoy the C8 when you're 10/10 on the track because its uncommunicative and less then inspired chassis. They say the C8 rides like a Rolls Royce but that's also its downfall since that's exactly how it feels just mowing around town while the 911S is orgasm induced just sitting in the garage :-)
That’s not what they said.
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