Terrorists - what do we do about em

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by kmarei

so should this same rational apply to crazy white Christian terrorists as well?
or does this only apply to Muslims?


check out this article

there is more Jewish terrorism in this country than Islamic
but you bet your A no one will ever say ban the Jews!
http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-mus...merica/5333619

white supremacists have killed more people than Muslims
so if you want to make this country safe, ban the Muslims, Jews, and white people. and I am pretty sure Latinos also contribute a lot, ban them as well.
http://securitydata.newamerica.net/e...y-attacks.html

I could be wrong but I think the Jewish defense league has been squashed for awhile now. Maybe a handful of clingers on and that's it. They targeted mainly Russian and Lebanese I believe.

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by kmarei

so should this same rational apply to crazy white Christian terrorists as well?
or does this only apply to Muslims?


check out this article

there is more Jewish terrorism in this country than Islamic
but you bet your A no one will ever say ban the Jews!
http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-mus...merica/5333619

white supremacists have killed more people than Muslims
so if you want to make this country safe, ban the Muslims, Jews, and white people. and I am pretty sure Latinos also contribute a lot, ban them as well.
http://securitydata.newamerica.net/e...y-attacks.html

which of those groups you listed are currently waging war on the world and making daily threats against innocent people?

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by David70

If someone tells you that over 30,000 people die in car accidents each year (massively greater odds than being killed by a terrorist), do you let your children, family or friends still take unnecessary automobile trips (for fun/vacation) or do you take reasonable steps to make it as safe as possible and move on with life? At the same time also looking for more ways to make automobile transportation safer but including "reasonable" in the decisions.

So you are comparing vehicle accidents to a known terrorist organization hiding inside a group of immigrants? Just to make sure I understand your statement 100%, and the justification that its ok for terrorists to kill innocent victims because more people die from automotive accidents.

And to add on to your statement, I also stated I'm not for or against a ban, and those who ARE for a ban, have stated it is only until they figure out a way to properly screen those coming in, which at this time they do not have.

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by FenixMike

which of those groups you listed are currently waging war on the world and making daily threats against innocent people?

correction
the ones waging war are ISIS, not Islam
just like the white supremacists who kill people because of their views on abortion, doesn't mean ALL WHITE people are making threats

don't let the views of 100,000 people affect your opinion of 1.6 billion people

I'm muslim, and guess what I want?
pretty much what you or anyone else on this forum wants
I want to work, make money, provide for my family
and to make sure I give my son the best shot possible so he can do the same when he grows up.
I'm not killing people, I am not strapping an explosive belt around my waist

and this is what 99% of muslims want by the way, to live a normal life

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I could be wrong but I think the Jewish defense league has been squashed for awhile now. Maybe a handful of clingers on and that's it. They targeted mainly Russian and Lebanese I believe.

ok fair enough
so we're only banning muslims, white people, and latinos

I mean if you are trying to make the country safe
then ban any potential threats no?

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by kmarei

correction
the ones waging war are ISIS, not Islam
just like the white supremacists who kill people because of their views on abortion, doesn't mean ALL WHITE people are making threats

don't let the views of 100,000 people affect your opinion of 1.6 billion people

I'm muslim, and guess what I want?
pretty much what you or anyone else on this forum wants
I want to work, make money, provide for my family
and to make sure I give my son the best shot possible so he can do the same when he grows up.
I'm not killing people, I am not strapping an explosive belt around my waist

and this is what 99% of muslims want by the way, to live a normal life

I think you again missed where I didn't make a decision either way, only fueling facts for the arguments that there will be no way to differentiate a terrorist from an innocent person. Im not for a ban of all people, but I also don't have faith in the government to screen them because I know A ) they aren't capable of it currently, and B ) the political climate of our current administration wants all those people here regardless of safety.

[David70]

Originally Posted by FenixMike

So you are comparing vehicle accidents to a known terrorist organization hiding inside a group of immigrants? Just to make sure I understand your statement 100%, and the justification that its ok for terrorists to kill innocent victims because more people die from automotive accidents.

And to add on to your statement, I also stated I'm not for or against a ban, and those who ARE for a ban, have stated it is only until they figure out a way to properly screen those coming in, which at this time they do not have.

I was putting it in the context of overall death risks, I worry most about the things the most likely to kill me. Obviously the average American does not. If it makes you feel better, compare the odds of being killed by someone not a terrorist to one that is. 355 mass shootings in the U.S. last year, and how many were terrorists? Then on average, people are far more likely to be shot by people they know.

You evidently don't understand my statement at all, I never said being killed by a terrorist is ok, neither is being killed by my neighbor, or the drug dealer, or anyone else.

I don't believe there will ever be a way to screen people for what they are thinking or believe (please tell me when we have a plan), creating a "temporary ban" until this happens is dreaming or a way to ease us into a permanent ban, more Trump master plans that can't possibly be accomplished. "We'll just ban them until we sort it out". What's there to sort out? Maybe this means until there aren't groups in the world that want to kill us.

[bbbbmw]

Originally Posted by wdb

You can't seriously believe that the issue is being 'simply ignored' by security agencies.

You can't seriously believe that nobody besides Trump is 'doing or proposing anything at all'.

If you can, I can't take you seriously.

I haven't seen any other proposals - would like to see links?

I don't see anything being done by security agencies, although they probably don't publish their efforts, of course.

What I do see is wide open borders, and federally-sponsored immigration from countries we know have zero infrastructure. How do you "vet" someone coming from a country where they don't even have a phone book? And I see San Bernardino, the Boston bombers, etc. And I see that Obama can't bring himself to say the words "Muslim terrorist."

All of this leads to a conclusion that we need to implement a moratorium until we can get things figured out, because we clearly don't have it figured out. We could certainly begin by controlling the southern border.

[bbbbmw]

Originally Posted by kmarei

correction
the ones waging war are ISIS, not Islam
just like the white supremacists who kill people because of their views on abortion, doesn't mean ALL WHITE people are making threats

don't let the views of 100,000 people affect your opinion of 1.6 billion people

I'm muslim, and guess what I want?
pretty much what you or anyone else on this forum wants
I want to work, make money, provide for my family
and to make sure I give my son the best shot possible so he can do the same when he grows up.
I'm not killing people, I am not strapping an explosive belt around my waist

and this is what 99% of muslims want by the way, to live a normal life

The studies would disagree with you - it's not a 1% of Muslims that hold radical views. There are many recent studies that reflect things like 81% of Egyptians and 68% of Pakistanis believe Muslims who leave the faith should be killed.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

I don't see anything being done by security agencies

Yes, you aren't supposed to, it'd be counterproductive for them to go around spouting off to the public about what their proposals and plans are.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Yes, you aren't supposed to, it'd be counterproductive for them to go around spouting off to the public about what their proposals and plans are.

Ain't that the truth. If no news breaks out about what the intelligence/security agencies are doing, that must mean they're not doing anything. If news breaks out about a failure to stop a terrorist incident, it's an intelligence/security failure. Damned if you do...damned if you don't.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Ain't that the truth. If no news breaks out about what the intelligence/security agencies are doing, that must mean they're not doing anything. If news breaks out about a failure to stop a terrorist incident, it's an intelligence/security failure. Damned if you do...damned if you don't.

Most people I know who work in the intelligence community couldn't care less about the negative publicity. Most of them work for "the State Department" anyway lol.

[bbbbmw]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Yes, you aren't supposed to, it'd be counterproductive for them to go around spouting off to the public about what their proposals and plans are.

Which is why I stated "...and I wouldn't expect to, of course."

[OneSickM]

Originally Posted by kmarei

correction
the ones waging war are ISIS, not Islam
just like the white supremacists who kill people because of their views on abortion, doesn't mean ALL WHITE people are making threats

don't let the views of 100,000 people affect your opinion of 1.6 billion people

I'm muslim, and guess what I want?
pretty much what you or anyone else on this forum wants
I want to work, make money, provide for my family
and to make sure I give my son the best shot possible so he can do the same when he grows up.
I'm not killing people, I am not strapping an explosive belt around my waist

and this is what 99% of muslims want by the way, to live a normal life

Thank you so much for pointing this out. These ISIS are less than 1% of Muslims (thats if they are really muslims !) I don't consider them Muslims and I am sure most of the muslims around the world would say the same. These people are very far from Islam. Islam never ever states to kill any innocent person. These people killed more Muslims than non muslims around the world. Look what they have done and still doing in Syria and Iraq every day. Do you know in religion of Islam if a Muslim kills an innocent person, you will face death sentence as a punishment? He isNOT going to paradise and be with 70 virgins as some of you have mentioned over here.

[Bols]

Originally Posted by OneSickM

Thank you so much for pointing this out. These ISIS are less than 1% of Muslims (thats if they are really muslims !) I don't consider them Muslims and I am sure most of the muslims around the world would say the same. These people are very far from Islam. Islam never ever states to kill any innocent person. These people killed more Muslims than non muslims around the world. Look what they have done and still doing in Syria and Iraq every day. Do you know in religion of Islam if a Muslim kills an innocent person, you will face death sentence as a punishment? He isNOT going to paradise and be with 70 virgins as some of you have mentioned over here.

Yea I'm pretty sure they're not calling the ones they kill "innocents" but infidels and the likes. That changes everything doesn't it? At least in their eyes.. The 1% to me is not even remotely true, atleast in Europe. Numerous studies have shown that. But to be honest I don't even understand the differentiation between 'fake' fairytale believers and 'real' fairytale believers?! Am I the only one living in 2015?

Not to mention that the Koran (as does the Bible and the New and Old Testament and whatever) does mention some pretty gruesome things and leaves room for interpretation. It's fuel for extremists but I don't think it even matters what it's called as long as they get a reason for doing what they do. To me it all boils down to culture. Some do not and will not ever mix and match. As soon as people get that and we keep to ourselves I reckon a lot of problems will be avoided

[Bx Tpr]

Originally Posted by Bols

Not to mention that the Koran (as does the Bible and the New and Old Testament and whatever) does mention some pretty gruesome things and leaves room for interpretation.(

Please find and post brother.

[Bols]

Originally Posted by Bx Tpr

Please find and post brother.

There are 100+ excerpts I could post here. But please tell me, my brother, what value do the words of some random dudes 2k+ years ago, have over mine or anyone else's? I do not see the difference. Do not get me wrong, anyone can do with their lives what they want, as long as they do not impose their ways onto anyone else's.. This is my main gripe..

[djDori_C]

Originally Posted by MChat

First it can't be "racist" Islam is a religion not a race.

Second, your freedoms end where they trample on mine. When your religion tells you to lie to, cheat, steal from and kill those that don't believe what you believe, then your "religious freedom" is invalid because it attempts to infringe on the basic human rights of others including the most basic of rights: to live.


IMO, if the Founding Fathers knew that Islam would eventually attempt to infiltrate the U.S., they would have modified the 1st Amendment, something like:




People like to point out that Jefferson had a Qu'ran translated into English. They fail to look into the historical reason of why he did. Jefferson was running into a problem with Islamic Pirates attacking U.S. Merchant vessels; when he attempted to negotiate with the countries these pirates originated from (the Barbary states) he found that they would say one thing and then do another. So in order to understand their beliefs, he had the Qu'ran translated. Once he understood what he was dealing with, he sent in the Marines to take care of the problem ("to the shores of Tripoli"). By reading the Qu'ran Jefferson quickly figured out what we are so willingly ignorant of today: You cannot deal or negotiate with someone who believes it is their divine right to lie to you, to cheat you, to steal from you and to ultimately murder you. The only outcome of such fanaticism is complete and utter defeat/destruction: yours or theirs, the only question is who is going to make the decision: you or them?

[Bx Tpr]

Originally Posted by Bols

There are 100+ excerpts I could post here. But please tell me, my brother, what value do the words of some random dudes 2k+ years ago, have over mine or anyone else's? I do not see the difference. Do not get me wrong, anyone can do with their lives what they want, as long as they do not impose their ways onto anyone else's.. This is my main gripe..

To you they are just words of some random dudes. To others those words did not come from man. Like you said, to each their own. What I don't understand is if one really believes that, why even bring up the contents of any biblical text? Let them believe lol. I haven't seen or heard of a single instance of Muslims or practitioners of any religion in this country trying to impose their will or religion on anyone lol.

[OneSickM]

Originally Posted by Bols

Yea I'm pretty sure they're not calling the ones they kill "innocents" but infidels and the likes. That changes everything doesn't it? At least in their eyes.. The 1% to me is not even remotely true, atleast in Europe. Numerous studies have shown that. But to be honest I don't even understand the differentiation between 'fake' fairytale believers and 'real' fairytale believers?! Am I the only one living in 2015?

Not to mention that the Koran (as does the Bible and the New and Old Testament and whatever) does mention some pretty gruesome things and leaves room for interpretation. It's fuel for extremists but I don't think it even matters what it's called as long as they get a reason for doing what they do. To me it all boils down to culture. Some do not and will not ever mix and match. As soon as people get that and we keep to ourselves I reckon a lot of problems will be avoided

That's simply not true. There are versus in quran that says if you kill one person is like killing all people in the world. Before stating things like that, I would suggest you to read the quran translation and then you will know what is right instead of generalization and saying quran mentions gruesome things because quran is really very clear.

[kmarei]

Watch this
Very interesting
Just goes to show how people opinions are based on what they hear in the media.
I doubt anyone here has even read a single passage in the Quran
Yet you all seem to have pretty strong opinions about it, and the entire religion, and 1.6 billion people!

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

The studies would disagree with you - it's not a 1% of Muslims that hold radical views. There are many recent studies that reflect things like 81% of Egyptians and 68% of Pakistanis believe Muslims who leave the faith should be killed.

I'd like to see that study, could you post a link to it please ?
If 81% of Egyptians were as radical as you claim
They would not have kicked out the Muslim brotherhood, after only one year in power no?
Even if the above statement is true, it has no effect on you
It's not declaring war on the world, as some have claimed
It's about Muslims who leave their religion.
And it's not practiced on most countries except Saudi arabia, which if you do your research, is behind all these dumbass ideas attributed to Islam today
And behind most radical Islamists.