Living in an Apt Driving a BMW?

[TheNus]

Originally Posted by BayMoWe335

Do you think those are generally the reasons or it's generally someone buying a car they really can't afford? I know the answer.

Is this what you want to hear? In my building you will sometimes have four mid-twenties to early thirties guys sharing the same two bedroom that I live in with my dog. It makes it cheap enough for them to also afford their cars and bottle service in order to live that lifestyle. Uptown Dallas 30K millionaires. There you have it. Everyone that lives in an apartment and has a nice car is hood rich. Proof positive, no questions asked.

[JN1]

Also, leasing + tax writeoffs = BMWFS gets your money vs. IRS.

[NemesisX]

Originally Posted by BayMoWe335

Do you think those are generally the reasons or it's generally someone buying a car they really can't afford? I know the answer.

I think the vagueness inherent in what it means to be "affordable" is precisely what causes needless amounts of tension and stress.

We already know most Americans live beyond their means -

"Most Americans Have No Savings, Even if They Make More Than $100,000 a Year"

66 Million Americans have No Emergency Savings

Nearly 7 in 10 Americans Have Less Than $1000 in Savings

76% of Americans Are Living Paycheck to Paycheck

Americans between 40 and 55 have an average retirement balance of $14,500 (granted, if you're getting a guaranteed pension this matters less). But nearly 25 million retirees are going to retire in poverty by 2050. That's in addition to the 45 million people who already live in poverty (a number likely to grow by 2050). That's insane to me.


Whether or not these levels of wanton spending translate to the upper middle class, I'm not really sure.

[Germanauto]

I think OP is referring to cheaper apartments in the suburbs type of thing. Still, you don't know everybody's situation. Maybe that individual has a good education and career but is still in his/her 20s and is saving up to buy a house, maybe they are unsure of where they are gonna live 2 years from now, etc. When my family moved to a new metropolis, we lived in an apartment for a year while waiting for our new house to be built. My folks had one newer luxury car at the time.

It is not unreasonable, however, to judge when things seem off.

[NemesisX]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I think OP is referring to cheaper apartments in the suburbs type of thing. Still, you don't know everybody's situation. Maybe that individual has a good education and career but is still in his/her 20s and is saving up to buy a house, maybe they are unsure of where they are gonna live 2 years from now, etc. When my family moved to a new metropolis, we lived in an apartment for a year while waiting for our new house to be built. My folks had one newer luxury car at the time.

It is not unreasonable, however, to judge when things seem off.

I don't know about reasonable vs unreasonable. I think it's tactless to judge period. I don't see it adding any value to any party involved (the judged or the judger)

Why are people so keen on trying to assess someone's financial situation based on material possessions?

[mrmoua2u]

Most home owners in here are still paying for their house. Unless you own the lien/title to your house, then you don't truly own it. You are just like any other apartment renters. Don't try to kid yourself if you think different.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by mrmoua2u

Most home owners in here are still paying for their house. Unless you own the lien/title to your house, then you don't truly own it. You are just like any other apartment renters. Don't try to kid yourself if you think different.

At least you have some equity, that's the difference.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by NemesisX

I don't know about reasonable vs unreasonable. I think it's tactless to judge period. I don't see it adding any value to any party involved (the judged or the judger)

Why are people so keen on trying to assess someone's financial situation based on material possessions?

Fair enough. It reminds me of the debate surrounding fat people. I am a proponent of not judging fat folks because you don't know their situation. But I do know some who are just plain lazy as shyt and have all the time in the world to change but they won't. Those are the types of folks I do look at funny. It's kind of the same thing here. You shouldn't judge somebody on the surface, but if you know their situation or if they are driving a freakin M5 (I've seen this before) while living in a cheap apartment something is fishy.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

At least you have some equity, that's the difference.

And where does that get you? You gotta live somewhere. Unless you own it outright, sell and move into a rental property. Guess you can afford an M car then.

[David70]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

It is not unreasonable, however, to judge when things seem off.

Actually it is completely unreasonable to judge when all you know is "things seem off". You don't know what is going on so you just assume they can't afford it?

[someguywithanm3]

I know a guy who buys new expensive cars all the time, but lives in a one bedroom apartment with his wife and daughter because he pays so much in car loans. But if it makes them happy, who am i to say anything?

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by mrmoua2u

Most home owners in here are still paying for their house. Unless you own the lien/title to your house, then you don't truly own it. You are just like any other apartment renters. Don't try to kid yourself if you think different.

This is a ridiculous comparison. Yes most homeowners do not own their homes outright. But homeowners have their name placed on the deed with the exception there is a lienholder listed until the mortgage is paid fully. Do renters have their name on the landlord's deed? When you're paying a mortgage, part of that money (if the loan is structured with principle payments) goes into the paying down the loan which translates into equity. Do rent payments get you equity in the place you're renting? By virtue of you being a homeowner with a mortgage the US Federal Government provides you a tax break on the interest paid on this loan. Do you get a tax break by paying rent? And finally, the Feds provide a provision where you can walk away from the sale of your home tax free provided it's your primary residence for 2 of the 5 years of ownership on any capital gains up to $250k for single filers and $500k for married. Rinse and repeat on the next property. This part doesn't even get discussed with renters because they have zero equity on their rental.

To make it clear, I'm not saying home ownership is the end all be all as I know some people who got into home ownership without thinking through this major obligation and all the consequences. In the case of an ex girlfriend, it ended very badly for her even though at the time I had talked an investor into buying the property for what she owed on the mortgage. The only hit she would see was her down payment and the years worth of payments made. She didn't listen and in the end had to let the house go into foreclosure.

But I had to say something about this ridiculous simplistic comparison between home owners and renters.

[mrmoua2u]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

This is a ridiculous comparison. Yes most homeowners do not own their homes outright. But homeowners have their name placed on the deed with the exception there is a lienholder listed until the mortgage is paid fully. Do renters have their name on the landlord's deed? When you're paying a mortgage, part of that money (if the loan is structured with principle payments) goes into the paying down the loan which translates into equity. Do rent payments get you equity in the place you're renting? By virtue of you being a homeowner with a mortgage the US Federal Government provides you a tax break on the interest paid on this loan. Do you get a tax break by paying rent? And finally, the Feds provide a provision where you can walk away from the sale of your home tax free provided it's your primary residence for 2 of the 5 years of ownership on any capital gains up to $250k for single filers and $500k for married. Rinse and repeat on the next property. This part doesn't even get discussed with renters because they have zero equity on their rental.

To make it clear, I'm not saying home ownership is the end all be all as I know some people who got into home ownership without thinking through this major obligation and all the consequences. In the case of an ex girlfriend, it ended very badly for her even though at the time I had talked an investor into buying the property for what she owed on the mortgage. The only hit she would see was her down payment and the years worth of payments made. She didn't listen and in the end had to let the house go into foreclosure.

But I had to say something about this ridiculous simplistic comparison between home owners and renters.

By your long life story, it does seem like you are making it the end of all. Who gives a fat shit if one lives in an apartment or have a house. Does it make you feel better than the other? Ok, lets say you have a bigger house than his, lets say you have better apartment than his,...guess what, maybe his wife is fucking 10x hotter than yours....now what? All your house and fancy cars don't mean shit if you are still an fuggly short shit....you see where I'm with this??

Bottom line, do what makes you happy and don't give a rat ass about what other thinks!

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by mrmoua2u

By your long life story, it does seem like you are making it the end of all. Who gives a fat shit if one lives in an apartment or have a house. Does it make you feel better than the other? Ok, lets say you have a bigger house than his, lets say you have better apartment than his,...guess what, maybe his wife is fucking 10x hotter than yours....now what? All your house and fancy cars don't mean shit if you are still an fuggly short shit....you see where I'm with this??

Bottom line, do what makes you happy and don't give a rat ass about what other thinks!

I guess reading comprehension isn't one of your strong suits. Please cite where I say owning a home was better than renting? My comments were aimed at the ignorant comment you made that a home owner paying a mortgage is the same as a renter. I find it funny you don't address the points I've made in why a home owner paying a mortgage is different than a renter. You just go on your stupid tirade assuming what I said meant I'm boasting about life style differences. All the points I brought up are factual. Yours is just plain stupidity.

[UPSROD]

Originally Posted by mrmoua2u

Most home owners in here are still paying for their house. Unless you own the lien/title to your house, then you don't truly own it. You are just like any other apartment renters. Don't try to kid yourself if you think different.

Except that if you are buying you have a tax write off and you are building equity....you get none of that in an apartment!

[mrmoua2u]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

I guess reading comprehension isn't one of your strong suits. Please cite where I say owning a home was better than renting? My comments were aimed at the ignorant comment you made that a home owner paying a mortgage is the same as a renter. I find it funny you don't address the points I've made in why a home owner paying a mortgage is different than a renter. You just go on your stupid tirade assuming what I said meant I'm boasting about life style differences. All the points I brought up are factual. Yours is just plain stupidity.

Apparently you must be the one who's having problem with comprehension. Go back and read my post earlier and think about it careful before ranting about your bullshit.

Ill say it again since it didnt get through your waxed ears. If you dont own your house out right, with deed in your hand, title cleared then you dont own it.. the bank still does.

I was borned at night but I wasnt born just last night. I understand equity and what you have build into, still it aint yours unless you sale, refi and etc and thats if market dont crash leaving you upside.

I never said you own a house or apartment, I dont give a fuck where you live. You could live under a bridge and go to a local internet cafe to post in bimmerpost, I can care less. I referred to as "lets just say". what if you were this, that is all. It doesnt make one better than the other. There will always be one better than you, thats life.

But when people come in here and start to compare people based on own their personal materials, ill put them straight. If you dont like it, sucks to be you sucka!

[jmg]

Originally Posted by mrmoua2u

Most home owners in here are still paying for their house. Unless you own the lien/title to your house, then you don't truly own it. You are just like any other apartment renters. Don't try to kid yourself if you think different.

I've come to accept that everyone's life is different and I don't think we should be judging people for renting vs buying, but for arguments sake I will say that with owning a home you are building equity. When you sell your home, you get that back plus appreciation, hopefully in the hundreds of thousands. When you leave your apartment, the best thing that happens is you get your security deposit back. Of course, you probably already know this, and for me, it's clear as day that for my situation buying is the thing to do. To each his own.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by mrmoua2u

Most home owners in here are still paying for their house. Unless you own the lien/title to your house, then you don't truly own it. You are just like any other apartment renters. Don't try to kid yourself if you think different.

Originally Posted by mrmoua2u

Apparently you must be the one who's having problem with comprehension. Go back and read my post earlier and think about it careful before ranting about your bullshit.

Ill say it again since it didnt get through your waxed ears. If you dont own your house out right, with deed in your hand, title cleared then you dont own it.. the bank still does.

I was borned at night but I wasnt bored just last night. I understand equity and what you have build into, still it aint yours unless you sale, refi and etc and thats if market dont crash leaving you upside.

I never said you own a house or apartment, I dont give a fuck where you live. You could live under a bridge and go to a local internet cafe to post in bimmerpost, I can care less. I referred to as "lets just say". what if you were this, that is all. It doesnt make one better than the other. There will always be one better than you, thats life.

But when people come in here and start to compare people based on own their personal materials, ill put them straight. If you dont like it, sucks to be you sucka!

Let me help you comprehend your own bullshit. I bolded the statement in your first stupid/ignorant comment about comparing renters and home owners.

So let's dissect your statement so you can better understand your bullshit.

"You are just like any other apartment renters. Don't try to kid yourself if you think different."

The first statement says homeowners are like any apartment renters. That means equivalent.

So the key word at play here is like. Here's a definition of like to help you out:

Having the same characteristics or qualities as; similar to.

Again that says you're saying renters and homeowners are equivalent. Let me help you out with what equivalent means in case you are confused:

Equal in value, amount, function, meaning, etc.

Your next sentence in that oh so thoughtful train of thought.

"Don't try to kid yourself if you think different."

Is a statement reinforcing the previous ignorant statement.

I've listed several reasons why homeowners are different than renters. Yet you don't have the fortitude to even address those because you know they're right and you can't say anything to dispute it.

I never stated what my current status is in relation to being a homeowner or renter. You made your stupid assumptions. I also gave an example of when homeownership can go terribly wrong. And it's clear how small your mind is when the basis of your assumption about homeownership involves a large single family home. You do realize condos fall under homeownership too. But I can expect that to get lost in your single track thinking.

I can make one assumption about you though. It's clear you've never owned any property as someone who has owned property wouldn't be making the stupid comments you've been making.

[mrmoua2u]

Yea, you must know me so well. Bravo!
Gosh, Im going to lose so much sleep over this.

[PoorLurker]

Originally Posted by mrmoua2u

Yea, you must know me so well. Bravo!
Gosh, Im going to lose so much sleep over this.

Don't even sweat that guy. He doesn't even have an M car... amirite?


Probably read a book called "making money off real estate for dummies" or osmeting and thinks he is all smart now.

[oolas3]

Sounds like some people don't get out much. In major cities, some of the most expensive real estate can be apartments/condos on some tony street. Some super rich will even live out of luxury hotels for the 24/7 service.

[NemesisX]

I don't understand why renting vs owning arguments get so heated. It's literally a matter of math. You can quibble with the assumptions you make about what you think you'll lose in the stock market or how much you think your home will appreciate.

You want to compare paying a mortgage vs paying rent for the next 30 years.

For home ownership, have to put up 20% as a down payment. Great. Step 1 (of 100): Take that amount into the future 30 years with whatever interest you believe you might earn in the stock market. If it's 3% per year and your downpayment is $100,000, you're giving up

(1-long term capital gains)*[($100,000)*(1.03)^30]-$100,000 = $114,180 (assuming 20% capital gains)

in future value.

Your mortgage is $400,000 on a 30 year fixed rate plus property taxes, HoA fees, and any other fees associated with home ownership.

The mortgage payments can be thought of as an investment. The interest paid on those mortgage payments is lost money. Whether you want to pay down your mortgage faster than 30 years depends entirely on whether your expected rate of return in the stock market exceeds your interest rate in any given year. All of these are assumptions, but they can be informed assumptions.

Whatever you want to assume about how much you think your home will appreciate over those 30 years is up to you and should be informed by your local market history.

I mean obviously I'm not going to go through the math here. You could probably build an excel spreadsheet to do it for you and play around with the numbers.

Ultimately, there's going to be a break even point where home ownership and renting leave you with identical future net worth.

It just so happens that in many cases, home ownership wins out all else being equal. Comparing the quality of living in a particular home with renting a comparable apartment. Does it win out in all cases? Of course not. That's not the claim. The claim is that home ownership wins out in most cases, particularly as the probability that you plan on living in your primary residence for the long haul increases.

Side rant on home equity: Should the goal be to have maximum equity in your home at all times during those 30 years? Absolutely not. The goal, assuming you are living in your primary residence for the long haul, should be to be underwater in your house for as long as possible to minimize taxable value and therefore minimize property taxes. You want equity to be highest when (and if) you plan on selling the home for a profit.