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11-25-2020, 05:25 AM | #155 | |
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In order of the most bonkers...you pair have claimed: That Mercedes have an auto start launch system That the Mercedes engine has between 100 and 150bhp more than the Ferrari/Renault/Honda engines That the DAS system was illegal before the Fia ruled them to be banned from next season That tyre cooling is illegal That only Mercedes run an engine turbo anti lag system. Plus various other unfounded nonsenses. Of course its normal...you've only recently paid full attention to F1 since you found Verstappen to follow, so you can't be expected to know much...but surely you have realised that there are several posters here who have been following F1 for decades and actually know how its history and the main principles of the technical and sporting regulations. OK, so one very last attempt to explain how the regulation of F1 works. The monetary value of a teams final championship position is immense. While typically Ferrari will receive around $200 million and Mercedes around $175 million, the bottom team will receive around $50 million. So there is naturally pressure to cheat/game the system/innovate in order to gain a performance advantage. Cheating as in Red Bull flexible front wing Gaming the system where you find a benefit by getting around a specific regulation by exploiting a loop hole in the technical regulations while knowing that it is against the spirit of the regulations such as Ferrari and Honda fuel flow wheeze. And innovate such as the Mercedes DAS system which was not covered by anything at all in the regulations when fitted. Teams will usually consult the FIA regarding whether a particular innovation they are researching is legal. Teams invest a significant amount of resources on scrutinizing the design and performance of their competitors, looking for any sign of an innovation or cheat that they might copy or question its legality with the FIA. Teams also poach other teams personnel at some cost in order to discover what if any "tricks" that team is trying to hide. So...if a team is cheating, it never stays secret for long. If a team is disputing another teams design then its worth paying attention. If some third rate retarded Dutch racing driver is making nonsense up on a crappy website then not so much. |
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11-25-2020, 05:49 AM | #156 |
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Of course its normal...you've only recently paid full attention to F1 since you found Verstappen to follow, so you can't be expected to know much...but surely you have realised that there are several posters here who have been following F1 for decades and actually know how its history and the main principles of the technical and sporting regulations.iver is making nonsense up on a crappy website then not so much.[/QUOTE]
*No need for you bust a gut explaining,I've been following F1 longer than you care to give me credit for. I was supporting other teams well before VER came on. Regarding das for instance, fia could have banned it immediately, it's easy for them to convert to normal steering and fia knew they have big advantage already from engine and other things, (things that other top sports people have mentioned already) have given Merc one hand on trophy even before the season started! So.. why give so much leeway to Merc. |
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11-25-2020, 06:53 AM | #157 | |
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True the FIA could have banned it immediately...but its a genuine innovation, something other teams could easily have copied but haven't. Banning the device for next season was a compromise, I suspect more for safety and reducing cost than because it gave Mercedes much of an advantage. Its not like the FIA haven't been lenient with other teams in the past for worse like outright cheating (again see Red Bull front wing)...so their decision on DAS seems fair. I do agree though that the Mercedes power advantage (whatever it is) is annoying and not good for the spectacle of F1 and I'd much rather all the cars were much closer in performance. Part of me would like F1 to have a system similar to the BTCC with success ballast and top ten reverse grids etc...but then it would be less F1 and more of an entertainment show. |
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11-25-2020, 07:16 AM | #158 | |
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Great post(s) by the way. |
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11-25-2020, 07:18 AM | #159 | |
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11-25-2020, 07:59 AM | #160 |
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I can't say I know Binotto bar his comments to the media...but I didn't think he had done a particularly bad job with what he has to work with.
Having lived and worked in Italy for 10 years I know the immense pressure that is put upon whoever is in charge of the Ferrari F1 team. The Ferrari F1 team is essentially a national team. The press dissect every strategic decision made during a race. If Ferrari wins then they are heros...if they lose (too often) then someone is for the chop. The team managers job is a proper poisoned chalice. |
11-25-2020, 09:14 AM | #161 | |
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11-25-2020, 09:25 AM | #162 | |
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It doesn't help when drivers (especially Vettel) try to second guess the pit stop strategies. I think the pressure the whole team is under makes teamwork quite difficult...everyone trying to keep their head down out of the firing line. Ferrari would surely work much better in a similar manner to the Mercedes team which seems to operate as a much more cohesive team with little external upper managerial oversight..but I can't see that happening any time soon. |
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11-25-2020, 09:57 AM | #163 |
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Ferraris problem is someone has to pay for bad form.
They come 2nd in the championship, they didn't win, someone must be replaced. They had a back aero package on that years car, someone must be replaced to fix it. The new Director of X hasn't made any improvements in 6 months, they must be replaced. Instead of thinking we weren't the winners so someone needs replacing, they should analyse it quite carefully and see are we the best WE can be. If we're going to make a change, is it actually to make US better. If not, it's a pointless change. The R&D and lead times in F1 are so long. You can't expect a change overnight. You also can't expect to be the best all the time. I know they strive to win at all costs, but they almost need to accept that second or third is not that bad. Instead, they should allow those new senior members to effect changes, and assess how those changes work over the course of a season or two, then look how they can improve. Putting peoples heads on the block because they weren't a magic fix in 3 months is futile. Their location in Maranello, vs almost every other team being located in the south Midlands and north South East areas around Oxfordshire, Bedfordshire, Northamptonshire, Surrey etc are turning away talent too. You can change F1 teams and for the most part still commute from home. You go to Ferrari you leave your family behind or uproot them to another country. I think a couple of Merc people, including the guy responsible for the AMG engine were put off by that. Then there's the emotive pressure of the tifosi, which you just don't get as any other F1 team.
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11-25-2020, 10:48 AM | #164 | ||
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Last edited by minn19; 11-25-2020 at 10:57 AM.. |
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11-25-2020, 10:54 AM | #165 | |
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Can't understand you following with Merc,you didn't seem to support any particular driver/team before but I do agree with you in bringing in success ballast to curtail any runaway winners like HAM. |
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11-25-2020, 11:46 AM | #166 |
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Amazing you guys are having lengthy debates about this trivial matter.
Is HAM an amazing driver? Yes. Is he the best driver? Dunno, maybe or maybe not. Fact of the matter is that there are WAY too many variables whereas the ONLY variable that should be the determinant should be the driver himself, that's it. In a world where Ferrari has their own team of engineers come out whenever auto journalists test their cars, tinkering w tires, pressures, settings, etc etc etc, when these relatively minor things obviously affect the outcome of the times, you're gonna tell me we should all of a sudden discount MAJOR variables such as a superior car/setup and ONLY focus on the driver? Cmon. Obviously, HAM has nothing to gain and everything to lose taking up that challenge (vs a relatively 'nobody'), so I wouldn't hold it against him for refusing. However, that is the ONLY way to know for sure who is the best. Stop kidding yourselves that you can take into account all these crazy variables, brush them aside like they are nothing and focus only on the driver, that's just being disingenuous and totally ridiculous. The end. |
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11-25-2020, 12:23 PM | #167 | |
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11-25-2020, 01:43 PM | #168 |
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That pales into insignificance with the number of times you (two) drag up fake accusations of Mercedes cheating.
I don't...but I do appreciate and like to recognise, great driving and design excellence. |
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11-25-2020, 02:35 PM | #170 | |
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However if the 2- 33%ers keep setting up their weak commentary its inevitable it will be knocked down.
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11-25-2020, 02:51 PM | #171 |
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11-25-2020, 03:15 PM | #172 |
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11-25-2020, 03:41 PM | #173 |
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11-25-2020, 06:17 PM | #174 | |
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I still, having read the relevant section of the FIA Technical Regulations and Sporting Regulations do not see how DAS is actually legal. It changes the TOE of the car, not the STEERING. TOE is a function of suspension, much like camber and castor, and those are required to be fixed by the rules. If it changed the CAMBER by leaning the tyres in or straightening them up, that would not be allowed. But somehow it has been interpreted as steering, which it is not. Fair play to Mercedes though, they interpreted a loophole, brought the FIA in and got a ruling on it BEFORE they incorporated it into the car. By the time any other teams knew about it in Barca testing 2020, it was too late for the rest of the teams to catch up. But there is no way that it is a steering thing, it is definitely altering suspension characteristics, and that for me given the words of the regulations mean it should not have been permitted, and when they enquired with the FIA, the FIA should have said no.
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11-26-2020, 03:27 AM | #175 | |
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11-26-2020, 03:43 AM | #176 | |
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Although a little bit of a stretch (in the sense that the devices principle aim is not about steering the car) it does seem fair to include the device under steering as toe angle does indeed actually affect the steering. Its a bit of a storm in a tea cup as all teams have had plenty of time (since the beginning of the season) to add a similar device to their cars but apparently no one thought it was worth the trouble. |
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