The Airplane Thread

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by asianF22

I was gonna guess Gulfstream G450 since it wasn't mentioned...

I included a link to the Diamond DA40's Wikipedia page in my post:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_DA40_Diamond_Star

The tail number (N44HH) was apparently involved in at least two other hull-loss accidents on previous planes with this recycled tail number, which didn't bode well for this latest crashed bearer of the cursed number:

Howard 500:

https://aviation-safety.net/database...?id=19770813-0

Piper Apache PA-23:

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1137171

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by Llarry

While the Consolidated PBY Catalina was the most numerous U.S. Navy flying boat (and amphibian) of World War II, Martin also produced a larger, more powerful flying boat during the war: The Martin PBM Mariner.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_PBM_Mariner

The Mariner first flew in 1939 and entered service in 1940. Like the PBY, it saw service world-wide in WWII. It was considerably larger and powered initially by a pair of Wright R-2600 14-cylnder radial engines of 1,600 hp; later R-2600-powered versions had higher-rated engines of 1,700 and then 1,900 hp. It was also more heavily armed than the PBY with three twin .50 turrets in the nose, tail and dorsal areas, plus a pair of .50s in the waist for a total of eight .50s. The bomb load was similar to the PBY but was carried in twin bomb bays that were part of the engine nacelles.

A few initial PBM-1s were followed by an improved PBM-3 and then by a PBM-5 model powered by 2,100 hp R-2800 18-cylinder engines. Quite a few PBMs were used for transport and designated PBM-3R; some were also used for medical evacuation of casualties in the Pacific.

The PBM survived the war and deliveries lasted until 1949 -- and was modified for postwar antisubmarine patrol duties during the first years of the Cold War. The final PBMs were retired by the Navy in 1956.

Although there was an amphibian version, the PBM-5A, the vast majority of PBMs were straight flying boats.

Unlike the PBY, the PBM was not widely used by Allied forces, although the RAF and RAAF used a few.

The PBM was used as the basis for the last U.S. Navy flying boat, the Martin P5M (later P-5) Marlin that saw service until 1967 or so. The P5M had more power (always more power, huh?) with Wright R-3350 with over 3,000 hp each and spent time patrolling off the coast of South Vietnam during that war.

I always thought it'd be great to learn to fly, purchase one of these and turn it into a "houseboat/houseplane!" What an adventure that would have been!

[asianF22]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

I included a link to the Diamond DA40's Wikipedia page in my post:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_DA40_Diamond_Star

The tail number (N44HH) was apparently involved in at least two other hull-loss accidents on previous planes with this recycled tail number, which didn't bode well for this latest crashed bearer of the cursed number:

It was meant as a joke, I knew it was a Diamond; there used to be a Diamond at our local area flight school. I DID search the tail# and saw that you're right about it previously belonging to other aircraft.

[Llarry]

The list of future operators of the Lockheed Martin F-35 continues to grow. The U. S. State Department has approved the sale of 24 F-35A fighters to the Czech Air Force.

Air forces of the following nations already operate the F-35 in Europe: Denmark, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, the UK and the USA. The following European nations have the aircraft on order: Belgium, Finland, Germany, Poland and Switzerland.

Other than in Europe, Australia (pictured), Israel, Japan and Korea all have the F-35 in their inventories. The U.S. of course operates all three variants: the conventional F-35A (Air Force), the short takeoff/vertical landing F-35B (Marine Corps) and the carrier-capable F-35C (Marine Corps and Navy). Canada and Singapore have the F-35 on order.

To date, over 935 F-35s have been delivered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockhe...5_Lightning_II

[Llarry]

Since the F-35 looks to be the future Free World standard, maybe it's time for a bit deeper dive into the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II.

The F-35 is designed to be a stealth fighter on day one of a war, and once air superiority has been established, it can turn into a "bomb truck" with a heavy weapons load (that is not stealthy).

Most nations have opted for the F-35A conventional fighter as first used by the U.S. Air Force; this requires runways to operate. Only the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps operate the carrier-capable F-35C version which takes off from aircraft carriers using catapults and lands back aboard using arresting gear. There are a number of nations that have opted for the F-35B STOVL version as first used by the U.S. Marine Corps:
-- The UK buy is all F-35Bs for both the RAF and the RN Fleet Air Arm
-- Italy is buying both F-35As and F-35Bs; The plan is to use the F-35Bs from the Italian Navy's small carriers.
-- Japan is likewise buying both A and B versions, planning to use the F-35B from their small carriers.
-- Singapore has ordered a dozen F-35Bs (which would be just a very small squadron) in order to evaluate the type; a further larger order may come later after evaluation to replace the F-16.

The F-35 is not a one-trick pony -- it has a number of advantages:
-- Stealth when only the internal weapons bays are used -- the F-35A and F-35C can carry two 2,000 lb bombs and two air-to-air missiles internally; the F-35B has somewhat smaller bays and can only accommodate two 1,000 lb bombs and two AAMs.
-- Heavy external weapons-carrying capability when stealth is not required -- see attached photos.
-- Large fuel capacity
-- Advanced radar and visual systems

Edit: Here's a photo showing why the STOVL (or VTOL) F-35B weapons bays are smaller. Note that the jet tailpipe rotates to the downward position and doors open for the lift fan at the front behind the nose gear.

[Llarry]

In the 1990s, with a view to developing the aerospace industry of Korea, a consortium of Korean companies formed Korean Aircraft Industries (KAI) and began, with the cooperation of Lockheed Martin, to develop a Korean jet trainer. The result was the KAI T-50, which resembled an 80% F-16 and was powered by a GE F404 afterburning turbofan engine.

Initial orders came from the Republic of Korea Air Force, which adopted the type as the standard advanced jet trainer.

KAI developed several versions of the T-50 as lower-cost combat aircraft for countries on a budget. A single-seat fighter version was considered, but not pursued; all version are two-seat.

The T-50 was a competitor for the U.S. Air Force's new advanced jet trainer, but that contest was won by the SAAB-Boeing T-7A.

Export sales include Indonesia, Iraq, the Philippines, Thailand, Poland and Malaysia so far with a number of other countries interested. The case of Poland is an interesting one: They wanted to augment their combat aircraft force quickly following the Russian invasion of Ukraine and KAI was very accommodating on timely deliveries, which will start this year.

KAI also offers various options, including an increased-thrust F414 engine and the capability to fire missiles with a great range than the Sidewinders normally fitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAI_T-50_Golden_Eagle

[Llarry]

On the 8th of May 1942, some 81 years ago, American and Japanese carrier forces met in the battle of the Coral Sea -- the first carrier versus carrier battle. Both sides sustained losses: The U.S. Navy lost one of its precious aircraft carriers, the USS Lexington (CV 2), which was heavily damaged by the Japanese and sunk by the USN to prevent it from falling into enemy hands. The Lady Lex sank in 9,800 feet of water.

In 2018, a remotely-operated underwater vehicle found the wreck and photographed a number of features, among which were several aircraft that had been aboard the Lex when she sank. The aircraft were damaged but amazingly the paint was still in pretty good shape. Here's one of the Douglas TBD-1 torpedo bombers lying on the ocean floor. The red tail stripes are still vivid, as are the national insignia and squadron markings. Since no TBD-1s survived World War II (many were lost a month later at the battle of Midway), some have proposed bring one or more aircraft up; the Navy's position is that sunken ships and accompanying wreckage are war graves and should not be disturbed. The other thing is that after 81 years in salt water, I suspect that the aluminum airplane would crumble into dust the moment it was lifted out of the water. That said, I believe a few Navy aircraft that crashed into the Great Lakes in WWII have been successfully recovered, though perhaps not to flying status.

Here's a color photo of a sunken TBD-1 and a B&W photo of one taken some months before.

[asianF22]

tenant’s 1943 Grumman G-44 Widgeon back from maintenance…

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by asianF22

tenant’s 1943 Grumman G-44 Widgeon back from maintenance…

Nice looking airplane. The original had two-blade props as seen in this preserved Coast Guard example; I suspect your tenant's has upgraded engines as well as those pretty three-blade propellers.

Some time in 1948, during his time as a test pilot, my Dad flew from Maryland up to New York to the Grumman plant on Long Island. While there, one of the Grumman managers asked him if there was anything he'd like to fly before he returned to Maryland. He replied that he would love to fly a seaplane as he had never done so. Presto! Grumman produced a Mallard, which was a larger amphibian with twin radials and he got to check out in it and make some water landings. That would never happen today: simulator time, paperwork, etc.

[Llarry]

The U.S. Air Force has been flying HH-60 combat rescue helicopters now for over four decades. The venerable HH-60G Pave Hawk is finally being replaced by an improved HH-60W that the Air Force has dubbed Jolly Green II in homage to the 'Jolly Green Giant' rescue helicopters of the Vietnam war.

The HH-60W, as well as its predecessor, is armored and armed; combat rescue is a dangerous business! There is a 7.62mm minigun or a .50 machine gun on each side. Fuel capacity has been considerably increased for more range and that can be further extended through aerial refueling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_HH-60_Pave_Hawk

[Llarry]

Speaking of helos, here's a unusual lift for an H-46.

[Jbrown7403]

.

[Yellowbee]

Originally Posted by Llarry

Speaking of helos, here's a unusual lift for a Chinook.

H-46 Phrog. Rather than an H-47 Chinook.

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by Yellowbee

H-46 Phrog. Rather than an H-47 Chinook.

True. The Chinook has a four landing gears vs three and different engine intakes. And a host of other technical features not easily identifiable from the outside.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by Yellowbee

H-46 Phrog. Rather than an H-47 Chinook.

I can't believe I missed that! I originally wrote H-46, then saw two landing gears up front and changed it to -47. Memo to self: Check vision.

[asianF22]

Originally Posted by Llarry

Nice looking airplane. The original had two-blade props as seen in this preserved Coast Guard example; I suspect your tenant's has upgraded engines as well as those pretty three-blade propellers.

Some time in 1948, during his time as a test pilot, my Dad flew from Maryland up to New York to the Grumman plant on Long Island. While there, one of the Grumman managers asked him if there was anything he'd like to fly before he returned to Maryland. He replied that he would love to fly a seaplane as he had never done so. Presto! Grumman produced a Mallard, which was a larger amphibian with twin radials and he got to check out in it and make some water landings. That would never happen today: simulator time, paperwork, etc.

The owner DID upgrade the engines, hence the triple-blade props; he flies in the local air show at times. That's cool your Dad was able to fly one.

[Llarry]

A short history of the Grumman amphibians:

The very first product that newly formed Grumman Aircraft produced in the early 1930s was not an aircraft at all, but an aircraft float with amphibious capabilities in the form of retractable wheels. (See last photo below.) At the same time, they were designing their first aircraft, the two-seat FF-1 carrier fighter, which won a Navy contract.

Grumman achieved fame through their line of Navy carrier aircraft, but at the same time throughout the 1930s and 1940s, they produced a number of amphibians that also saw widespread use.

The first of these was Grumman's JF (J = Utility, F = Grumman) Duck, which first flew in 1936 and was soon bought by the Navy. Improved versions soon followed, designated J2F and the Duck became ubiquitous in the fleet, although never in large numbers anyplace. It was carrier-capable and a couple were assigned to each carrier before World War II. It was also present in small numbers at most air stations and was bought by the Coast Guard as well. The Duck was used as a utility transport, a rescue amphibian and for fleet utility duties including target towing for gunnery practice. The J2F served throughout the war and postwar until replaced by helicopters. It was also operated by the Army Air Forces as the OA-12 Duck. Ducks were used to rescue downed aviators, often close to Japanese-held islands and under fire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_J2F_Duck

Soon after the Ducks' debut, a smaller twin-engine amphibian, the Grumman Goose, was designed. The Goose was a light amphibian designed for short-haul airline or corporate/private use. It first flew in 1937 and was purchased by the Navy as the JRF (JR = Utility Transport, F = Grumman).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_G-21_Goose

Several years later -- in 1940 -- a larger twin amphibian from Grumman first flew. The Widgeon was also adopted by the Navy and Coast Guard as the J4F.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_G-44_Widgeon

After World War II, Grumman flew a still larger amphibian, the Mallard. The Mallard was not purchased by the military and production was limited.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_G-73_Mallard

The final Grumman amphibian, the Albatross, flew in 1947 and was the largest of all. It was initially designated as the PF (P = Patrol F = Grumman) but soon redesignated the UF (U = Utility) and purchased in fairly large numbers by the Navy, the Coast Guard and later the U.S. Air Force (as the SA-16). The Albatross was in service long enough to be redesignated the HU-16 in 1962 -- the others were long gone by then -- and was primarily an air-sea rescue aircraft. It served into the late 1970s in the Coast Guard. In a repeat of the Duck crews' heroism of WWII, Air Force crews conducted rescues of downed aircrews near the North Vietnamese coast under fire during the Vietnam war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_HU-16_Albatross


The Royal Norwegian Air Force bought the Albatross as a relatively small ASW/patrol amphibian. It served from 1961 to 1969.

[Llarry]

[QUOTE=Llarry;30279338]A short history of the Grumman amphibians:
//snip//
The first of these was Grumman's JF (J = Utility, F = Grumman) Duck, which first flew in 1936 and was soon bought by the Navy. Improved versions soon followed, designated J2F and the Duck became ubiquitous in the fleet, although never in large numbers anyplace. It was carrier-capable and a couple were assigned to each carrier before World War II. It was also present in small numbers at most air stations and was bought by the Coast Guard as well. The Duck was used as a utility transport, a rescue amphibian and for fleet utility duties including target towing for gunnery practice. The J2F served throughout the war and postwar until replaced by helicopters. It was also operated by the Army Air Forces as the OA-12 Duck. Ducks were used to rescue downed aviators, often close to Japanese-held islands and under fire. [QUOTE]

The Grumman Duck followed an already familiar layout pioneered by Loening Aircraft years earlier. In fact, I believe that several key Grumman engineers had previously worked at Loening.

The Loening Amphibian was bought by both the Army and the Navy in the 1920s, although not in the numbers that the Duck saw.

Early Loenings were powered by liquid-cooled V-12 engines, while later aircraft adopted the then-new Pratt & Whitney radials. The Army designation was OA-1 (O for observation, A for amphibian, -1 for the first of the type) and the Navy designation was OL (O for observation and L for Loening). The O was somewhat of a misnomer; the mission was primarily utility. Some of the OLs, like the Ducks, were carrier-capable.

By the early 1930s, the Loenings had been replaced by Grumman Ducks.

The later Loenings (all photos except the second, which is a very early airplane) get the prize for ugliest tail ever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loening_OL

[Llarry]

Will the seaplane live again in U.S. military service? There are currently two separate efforts along that line:

1) The U.S. Special Operations Command has been scheming on a seaplane for a couple of years. Their preferred candidate appears to be a float-equipped MC-130J. It would appear that the biggest issue, besides the cost of such an effort, would be how to get equipment and vehicles from the height of the 130's cargo deck into the water below. There has also been some discussion of just buying the world's current best seaplane, the Japanese Shin Meiwa US-2 amphibian; the US-2 has the same four engines (despite lighter weight) as the C-130 but is not optimized for carrying cargo or vehicles.

2) The Defense Advanced Research Projects Activity (DARPA) is exploring a heavy-lift seaplane called the Liberty Lifter. Two companies have submitted proposals: Aurora and General Atomics. This would be a much larger aircraft than a C-130 or US-2 and would be a wing-in-ground-effect (WIG) aircraft that could also fly conventionally up to 10,000 feet of altitude. The DARPA Liberty Lifter is a longer-term project.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Lifter

Both of these efforts appear to be driven by the emphasis on the Pacific Ocean and increased Chinese activity in the Western Pacific.

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by Llarry

The U.S. Special Operations Command has been scheming on a seaplane for a couple of years. Their preferred candidate appears to be a float-equipped MC-130J.

I watched a video about a Coast Guard C-130 going to a station in Greenland. The plane was equipped with skis which caused an enormous amount of drag so they had to be very careful will their fuel consumption. Now this "contraption" would need a tanker to follow it everywhere.

[Llarry]

Canada has formally requested the sale of up to 16 Boeing P-8A patrol aircraft, along with spares and support, at an estimated cost of US$5.9 billion. (computer-generated images)

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by Llarry

Canada has formally requested the sale of up to 16 Boeing P-8A patrol aircraft

It is striking how different the disposition of patrol aircraft is between Canada and the U.S. The U.S. Navy has a training squadron in Florida, but the rest of the force is evenly divided between Atlantic and Pacific. The RCAF, on the other hand, other than the training unit in Nova Scotia with 4 CP-140Ms, has 11 CP-140Ms based in Nova Scotia and only 3 in British Columbia. Quite a difference! Given a more assertive Chinese navy, I wonder if the P-8As will be more even divided...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_CP-140_Aurora