What's that? You wanna chit chat? Welcome to the whore thread!

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

All those numbers are theoretical and can be pretty accurate but the cars don't drive in theory. Things change continuously. You can't say I'm gonna enter this corner at x mph and turn y degrees and apply z throttle at point b after trail braking at f-h pressure with release point t and moving my hands at r revolutions per second on unwind? You would wreck in the paddock. As said above its trial and error, math only determines what's possible a person doesn't function that way.

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

+1

Even Pro race car drivers dont look at the speedo, maybe the tach even that after a while the car and the driver become one. They can pretty shift within a 100 rpm of redline without looking at the tachometer, going by the engine sound.
If they enter a corner too fast, next lap they might change the initial braking point for that turn.

Most race cars will have a big tach dial in the middle and a small speedo on the side bc it's not important in racing, some don't have speedometers.

You can do all the trial and error at your back yard wrestling street car-race and make tons of flat spots on the tires for another pit stop. Doing "trial and error" on a RACE is retarded. You do that sh1t at FP (Free practice) to gather data for the team. You doing trial and error, you will make tons of flat surfaces on tires for earlier pit AT THE RACE.
WHen you are backyard wrestling-driving at a circuit, feel free to do all the "trial and error," but you better not wreck one of those racecars.

WHen someone goes to some race track for laptime is like FP. Don't get confused with best laptime vs racing.
IF you just go by Trial and error at the race, Team will NOT know when to pit or not. it is all calculations. As a driver, you follow it with your skillset.


I will go by my experience+what engineers tells me off of radio.
Wow, lots of big f'n talks from people who never even TOUCHED a Formula FORD or BMW.

They tell you the pace for tire, fuel (when refulling), faster corner to corner correctly.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

You can do all the trial and error at your back yard wrestling street car-race and make tons of flat spots on the tires for another pit stop. Doing "trial and error" on a RACE is retarded. You do that sh1t at FP (Free practice) to gather data for the team. You doing trial and error, you will make tons of flat surfaces on tires for earlier pit AT THE RACE.
WHen you are backyard wrestling-driving at a circuit, feel free to do all the "trial and error," but you better not wreck one of those racecars.

WHen someone goes to some race track for laptime is like FP. Don't get confused with best laptime vs racing.
IF you just go by Trial and error at the race, Team will NOT know when to pit or not. it is all calculations. As a driver, you follow it with your skillset.


I will go by my experience+what engineers tells me off of radio.
Wow, lots of big f'n talks from people who never even TOUCHED a Formula FORD or BMW.

They tell you the pace for tire, fuel (when refulling), faster corner to corner correctly.

What's retarded is telling a guy racing his daily driver on street tires to use a bunch of formulas to determine his car's limits on the track.

I won a street tire class a few years ago, it's more than pretending to be an F1 driver.

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

What's retarded is telling a guy racing his daily driver on street tires to use a bunch of formulas to determine his car's limits on the track.

I won a street tire class a few years ago, it's more than pretending to be an F1 driver.

I was telling mpowerbelgium how he can calculate the lat G, and I was guessing. Can I do that? (Go right ahead and start nippicking members every day.)

har har har. I got a good share of my time on 1600cc.
Go play Mario Kart and tell me how you turn Eau Rouge with your "trial and error" at what speed.

[MrPrena]

This is how V1.47fan received his trophy.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

Eau Rouge is one area you need to "calculate" with physics to know your and car's limit. I agree.

Most of non-car freaks think lateral acceleration limit @r=x ft is the limit of the lateral "a", but that is just at that radius.

I think our E9x M3 can do about 1.1g at Eau Rouge. Meaning you gotta calculate accordingly, because you gotta go to the other side of the curve, and being 2.2g (hypothetical #) NET lat "a." (you can use a=v^2/r as a start, but real calculation can be severely more

You don't need to calculate with physics to know your daily driver's limits at the track.

[ASBSECU E93]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

You don't need to calculate with physics to know your daily driver's limits at the track.

Actually....its physics AND calculus....

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

You don't need to calculate with physics to know your daily driver's limits at the track.

So, you never measure lateral accelerations?
Why even bother timing your track time?

Dude, as I said before, if you are just to have a little fun, you don't need anything. Just drive the damn car. If you wanna measure the metrics h, you are more than welcome to measure it.

Oh yeah.... we do need a Newtonian/Mechanical Physics to do that!

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93

Actually....its physics AND calculus....

Nobody is arguing that it's not.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

So, you never measure lateral accelerations?
Why even bother timing your track time?

Dude, as I said before, if you are just to have a little fun, you don't need anything. Just drive the damn car. If you wanna measure the metrics h, you are more than welcome to measure it.

Oh yeah.... we do need a Newtonian/Mechanical Physics to do that!

With a g meter you can record the data and review it after the race, some people use that to help tune their suspension. You're not looking at the g meter going around the track.

You're not using formulas to determine lateral accelerations.
Can you use formulas to determine how fast you're going or how much g's you're pulling? Sure

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

With a g meter you can record the data and review it after the race, some people use that to help tune their suspension. You're not looking at the g meter going around the track.

You're not using formulas to determine lateral accelerations.
Can you use formulas to determine how fast you're going or how much g's you're pulling? Sure

Are you still on this???
I have speedometer so, I don't think I need a formula.

You are not DUMB ENOUGH to think that someone inside the racercar racing have to use a physics to calculate this and that while driving right??

when I say calculation, you drive, gather data (usually telemetry or device in your car, or even a pax with stopwatch can do this), and bring it in for analysis. NOT doing a freaking mechanical physics while driving at 150mph straight!!!!

If you have to , you can buy a highschool physics book and calculate yourself.
Get the dist1 to dist 2, and measure the damn time for a velocity.
for g's you can google lateral accelertion formula to do it, if you must.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

Are you still on this???
I have speedometer so, I don't think I need a formula.

You are not DUMB ENOUGH to think that someone inside the racercar racing have to use a physics to calculate this and that while driving right??

when I say calculation, you drive, gather data (usually telemetry or device in your car, or even a pax with stopwatch can do this), and bring it in for analysis. NOT doing a freaking mechanical physics while driving at 150mph straight!!!!

If you have to , you can buy a highschool physics book and calculate yourself.
Get the dist1 to dist 2, and measure the damn time for a velocity.
for g's you can google lateral accelertion formula to do it, if you must.

You asked me a question, i answered your question then you're surprised I'm still on this.

Makes sense, Mrs Prena.

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

You asked me a question, i answered your question then you're surprised I'm still on this.

Makes sense, Mrs Prena.

All right. Here is the deal.
If you shine at your stock car race, you might get lucky to get picked up for F3 euro or GP3. Make sure you do without any calculations. Tell your engineer that you can get a "Feel" with "trial and error." all right?

If I get lucky enough to get picked by F3 or GP3, I will listen to engineers and principals, on how many seconds of sector time I need to meet, and how many g's I WILL BE pulling (used by calculations) on some corner PRIOR to free practice. Even if I am driving a slow ass Avalon on a circuit, pre calculated data from team would definitely help me improve my lap time.

deal!

[ASBSECU E93]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

You are not DUMB ENOUGH to think that someone inside the racercar racing have to use a physics to calculate this and that while driving right??

when I say calculation, you drive, gather data (usually telemetry or device in your car, or even a pax with stopwatch can do this), and bring it in for analysis. NOT doing a freaking mechanical physics while driving at 150mph straight!!!!

Drivers Drive....Spotters spot.....Pit does the heavy lifting (in race calculations and adjustments....)...

At least this is my limited (NASCAR) understanding

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

All right. Here is the deal.
If you shine at your stock car race, you might get lucky to get picked up for F3 euro or GP3. Make sure you do without any calculations. Tell your engineer that you can get a "Feel" with "trial and error." all right?

If I get lucky enough to get picked by F3 or GP3, I will listen to engineers and principals, on how many seconds of sector time I need to meet, and how many g's I WILL BE pulling (used by calculations) on some corner PRIOR to free practice. Even if I am driving a slow ass Avalon on a circuit, pre calculated data from team would definitely help me improve my lap time.

deal!

No, i'll bring a pencil and paper to calculate the limits before hitting the track.

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93

Drivers Drive....Spotters spot.....Pit does the heavy lifting (in race calculations and adjustments....)...

At least this is my limited (NASCAR) understanding

Now I learned my lesson. I should've listen to people. I am usually extra nice to E9x M3 owners.

I just can't argue with a guy with TONS OF racing [and other] trophies.

[1MOREMOD]

I have no trophies but did flip a Mazda lmp2 car on pit exit at laguna.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

I have no trophies but did flip a Mazda lmp2 car on pit exit at laguna.

Laguna is one track you need to "calculate" with physics to know your and car's limit.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

Laguna is one track you need to "calculate" with physics to know your and car's limit.

I know I wish I had know. Good thing I got the insurance.

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

Laguna is one track you need to "calculate" with physics to know your and car's limit.

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

I know I wish I had know. Good thing I got the insurance.

Nah, keep on doing "trial and error" at the actual race. Who cares, it is just car meet race anyways.

[1MOREMOD]

Sorry to be obtuse but I'm still not getting what your trying to say Mr prena. The drivers aren't robots who can respond with x amount of this and y amount of that. I agree in testing you figure out your set up but then they are using their brain and feel and their programming to drive not a preset formula of push the pedal this much and turn this much. Tires degrade, temps change, lines change. If they stuck to the predetermined plan the first corner they had a any change in parameters a crash would result?

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Sorry to be obtuse but I'm still not getting what your trying to say Mr prena. The drivers aren't robots who can respond with x amount of this and y amount of that. I agree in testing you figure out your set up but then they are using their brain and feel and their programming to drive not a preset formula of push the pedal this much and turn this much. Tires degrade, temps change, lines change. If they stuck to the predetermined plan the first corner they had a any change in parameters a crash would result?

What I am trying to say is.

1. Go to pre-race meet with whatever team they have. They will break down the sector laps time, etc.
2. Go on a Free practice to gather data at specific or variable temp and type of tires and etc. They analyze the whatever thing you should be doing as a freaking "guidance." If track temp is hotter, you may do it on next practice. If track temp is lower, you may lose time. who knows?

I sure am not going to get into a corner with my M3 on a 40F temp at Avg M3 track speed which was mainly set on summer time.
I sure am not going to hit .5 faster laps with degraded tires which needs a change.
I sure am not going to have a regular lap time with 1.6L open wheel race car when there is a dirty air.

You kidding me? that is common sense.
guide line.

Why do you guys think that engineers will see the telemetry and said
"You braked about 0.03sec early on this corner and lost 0.0x sec"
"You did okay here on entry, but you O/U steered on the exit, and lost 0.0x sec."
They calculate those for you from years and years of previous data and "calculations."

Do you guys just not get those kinda advice prior to hitting the race?
Forget race, doesn't the instructors at a school tell you to do this and that at this that corner as a guideline?

[1MOREMOD]

Yes you try different things lines, braking point, techniques, but I'm not Hamilton I'm not anywhere precise enough to brake .03 seconds later. Those guys make every bit as many mistakes as me. They just are within such close proximity of the limit while doing it while I'm over under and trying to build that precision. Nobody will ever pay me to drive at the track it's just fun and the only data I have is what I collect and analyze which is more than most do.
.