Why do so many new BMW drivers lease (most of any brand)?

[SW17LS]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Is not the impact of vehicle damage (or excess miles) at the risk of the lessee at the end of the lease upon vehicle turn in? Essentially the resale value of the vehicle is diminished if during the lease the vehicle is in an accident and the lessee pays the difference between the vehicle real value (from damage) vs. the residual value determined at lease initiation.

This is not correct. As long as the vehicle is properly repaired any impact to the value at the end is on the leasing company, not the lessee. You absolutely do not pay any difference between the final actual residual value and the residual in the lease agreement on a closed end lease, you would on an open end lease but 99.9999% of vehicle leases are closed end leases.

The only risk to you as the lessee if the vehicle is damaged is if you never get it repaired and turn the car in with it still damaged, then you would be required to pay to repair it.

This is a big plus when driving a car like this where an accident history is so detrimental to its value.

[Dégoûté]

Does old money lease?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by SW17LS

This is not correct. As long as the vehicle is properly repaired any impact to the value at the end is on the leasing company, not the lessee. You absolutely do not pay any difference between the final actual residual value and the residual in the lease agreement on a closed end lease, you would on an open end lease but 99.9999% of vehicle leases are closed end leases.

The only risk to you as the lessee if the vehicle is damaged is if you never get it repaired and turn the car in with it still damaged, then you would be required to pay to repair it.

This is a big plus when driving a car like this where an accident history is so detrimental to its value.

So how is that any different than owning a car and having it properly repaired?

[DrVenture]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Lots of justification happening in this thread.


It's your money. Do what you want. Theres an example of any of the car acquisition methods they make sense for someone out there, down to even 100% financing a brand new car, even if its not financially recommended.

...

And a lot of that from folks who claim "not to care what other people think". The only people who don't care what other people think are sociopaths. People who spend 7 pages attempting to explain their rationale to strangers, very much care what other people think. Maybe too much.

I did learn a little bit about leasing from reading this though.

[SW17LS]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So how is that any different than owning a car and having it properly repaired?

Because once repaired a car will have diminished value, no matter how well its repaired. You can pursue a diminished value claim, but they are very hard to get and even when you do the amount of the DV claim is usually nowhere near the actual value difference.

On a car like my S Class an accident history can be a 20-25% hit to its resale value...even just a repainted bumper... in a lease thats not a concern.

Originally Posted by DrVenture

And a lot of that from folks who claim "not to care what other people think". The only people who don't care what other people think are sociopaths. People who spend 7 pages attempting to explain their rationale to strangers, very much care what other people think. Maybe too much.

I did learn a little bit about leasing from reading this though.

Not about justifying it, its an interesting discussion that like you admitted at the end people can learn from. I don't care what strangers think, that doesn't mean I don't have an interest in trying to help people see past their own preconceptions.

If I didn't enjoy the discussion I wouldn't participate in it.

[DrVenture]

Like I said...

[tranquility]

We had this debate on another car forum. Suffice to say that ppl who are really rich, e.g. own several late model exotics, all bought outright. Now, some ppl will try to desperately convince others that *borrowing* money is the smarter move, but if those ppl had money, they wouldn't be *borrowing*, in addition to claiming they know much more than those multibillion dollar corporations who only lend money...why didn't they invest in stocks or whatever money is allegedly put to better use like those ppl who finance/lease?

Incredibly, some will disagree and/or get offended by this above simple statement for whatever reason.

[SW17LS]

Originally Posted by tranquility

We had this debate on another car forum. Suffice to say that ppl who are really rich, e.g. own several late model exotics, all bought outright. Now, some ppl will try to desperately convince others that *borrowing* money is the smarter move, but if those ppl had money, they wouldn't be *borrowing*, in addition to claiming they know much more than those multibillion dollar corporations who only lend money...why didn't they invest in stocks or whatever money is allegedly put to better use like those ppl who finance/lease?

Incredibly, some will disagree and/or get offended by this above simple statement for whatever reason.

It depends on how much money you have. If you have so much disposable money that you don't care about it all being invested and performing then sure. if I had $20M would I care about Spending $150,000 in cash for a car? No. If I were near retirement and not looking for growth from my money anymore I wouldn't lease or drive a car this expensive most likely.

in addition to claiming they know much more than those multibillion dollar corporations who only lend money...why didn't they invest in stocks or whatever money is allegedly put to better use like those ppl who finance/lease?

Not sure what you are asking here. Are you asking why those companies that lend money don't just invest that money instead of lending it? Because thats not the business they are in. Manufacturer finance arms exist so that manufacturers can sell cars...they often don't make much profit at all, actually.

Individuals can also loan out money like this and make a return, its just more risk than I personally would be interested in taking but its something you can do. I know a few people who lend out hard money like that.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by SW17LS

It depends on how much money you have. If you have so much disposable money that you don't care about it all being invested and performing then sure. if I had $20M would I care about Spending $150,000 in cash for a car? No. If I were near retirement and not looking for growth from my money anymore I wouldn't lease or drive a car this expensive most likely.



Not sure what you are asking here. Are you asking why those companies that lend money don't just invest that money instead of lending it? Because thats not the business they are in. Manufacturer finance arms exist so that manufacturers can sell cars...they often don't make much profit at all, actually.

Individuals can also loan out money like this and make a return, its just more risk than I personally would be interested in taking but its something you can do. I know a few people who lend out hard money like that.

Well, that's what I'm saying, any rich dude wouldn't bother with borrowing as it's not cost-effective.

As for part 2, some ppl claim that the 'saved, freed up' money could be put to better use but it's not as simple as they claim and there are obviously risks they discount or play down. If it was easy, no one would be lending and they'd all be playing the stock mkt instead.

[SW17LS]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Well, that's what I'm saying, any rich dude wouldn't bother with borrowing as it's not cost-effective.

I wouldn't say "any rich dude wouldn't bother". All the really rich people I know care a lot about value, I know a lot of independently wealthy people who look for the most cost effective way to do anything and a lot of them do lease cars.

Lots of rich people use leverage to their advantage. In any event it makes no sense for me to emulate what someone who has $20M does, because he (or she) and I are not in the same circumstances. What makes sense for me to do is what works best for me in my circumstances. Some people just really hate the idea of paying interest or borrowing money. Some people can't stand making monthly payments, I have no issue with either of those things.

As for part 2, some ppl claim that the 'saved, freed up' money could be put to better use but it's not as simple as they claim and there are obviously risks they discount or play down. If it was easy, no one would be lending and they'd all be playing the stock mkt instead.

Its pretty simple. All of my money is invested...in order to buy a car in cash I would need to sell investments and take money out that is earning a return...that doesn't make sense to me when I can borrow money for less interest than my investments are returning. Then there is the tax implications of taking that money out, etc. For me financing a car or leasing a car is actually a lot simpler than paying cash. If I had $100,000 laying around in a bank account it would be different but I don't, its invested. I can walk in, fill out a credit app sign my name and drive off with the car. If I paid cash I would have to think about where the money should come from, weigh the loss of return and the tax implications...this way the money just stays there and earns a return with deferred taxes and theres nothing to think about.

Long term investing isn't very risky, you have ups and downs but as long as you have good people managing your money you will be fine. I don't "play the stock market", thats gambling not investing.

Of course people lend, the lending is the investing, and the lending is the product those businesses offer for profit. Where do you think they get the capital to lend? Investors.

Its all about numbers, if your money is not earning what the loan costs then you should pay cash. If it is earning more than the loan costs then its cheaper to borrow the money vs using your own.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by SW17LS

I wouldn't say "any rich dude wouldn't bother". All the really rich people I know care a lot about value, I know a lot of independently wealthy people who look for the most cost effective way to do anything and a lot of them do lease cars.

Lots of rich people use leverage to their advantage. In any event it makes no sense for me to emulate what someone who has $20M does, because he (or she) and I are not in the same circumstances. What makes sense for me to do is what works best for me in my circumstances. Some people just really hate the idea of paying interest or borrowing money. Some people can't stand making monthly payments, I have no issue with either of those things.



Its pretty simple. All of my money is invested...in order to buy a car in cash I would need to sell investments and take money out that is earning a return...that doesn't make sense to me when I can borrow money for less interest than my investments are returning. Then there is the tax implications of taking that money out, etc. For me financing a car or leasing a car is actually a lot simpler than paying cash. If I had $100,000 laying around in a bank account it would be different but I don't, its invested. I can walk in, fill out a credit app sign my name and drive off with the car. If I paid cash I would have to think about where the money should come from, weigh the loss of return and the tax implications...this way the money just stays there and earns a return with deferred taxes and theres nothing to think about.

Long term investing isn't very risky, you have ups and downs but as long as you have good people managing your money you will be fine. I don't "play the stock market", thats gambling not investing.

Of course people lend, the lending is the investing, and the lending is the product those businesses offer for profit. Where do you think they get the capital to lend? Investors.

Its all about numbers, if your money is not earning what the loan costs then you should pay cash. If it is earning more than the loan costs then its cheaper to borrow the money vs using your own.

Maybe you know the wrong type of 'rich ppl' then.

Suffice to say from that wall of text if one doesn't have sufficient disposable income, then they have no choice but to borrow money...you explained it itself in your reply, i.e. your money is tied up so you gotta figure out how else to make your purchase; that's all good as you may have $19.9M stuck in investments. Really wealthy ppl don't as they have disposable funds lying around.

[SW17LS]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Maybe you know the wrong type of 'rich ppl' then.

Suffice to say from that wall of text if one doesn't have sufficient disposable income, then they have no choice but to borrow money...you explained it itself in your reply, i.e. your money is tied up so you gotta figure out how else to make your purchase; that's all good as you may have $19.9M stuck in investments. Really wealthy ppl don't as they have disposable funds lying around.

I know plenty of very wealthy people. Not people who have multiple exotic cars, people who come from old money and don’t buy flashy things like that. If that’s the “wrong kind of rich people” I don’t know what the right kind are lol

It’s not about not having enough disposable income, it’s about being focused on growing wealth or not. I don’t keep money lying around I invest money that I don’t use for expenses. Having $150,000 just sitting in a bank account is a waste to me. If you have $20M then for you, you may not care. That does not mean that it’s smart for somebody else to pay cash for a car

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by SW17LS

I know plenty of very wealthy people. Not people who have multiple exotic cars, people who come from old money and don’t buy flashy things like that. If that’s the “wrong kind of rich people” I don’t know what the right kind are lol

It’s not about not having enough disposable income, it’s about being focused on growing wealth or not. I don’t keep money lying around I invest money that I don’t use for expenses. Having $150,000 just sitting in a bank account is a waste to me. If you have $20M then for you, you may not care. That does not mean that it’s smart for somebody else to pay cash for a car

Yes, but we are talking about *wealthy ppl who buy cars*, not those who do other things. I don't think you're really debating the point. Anyway, if you think rich ppl lease instead of buy outright, then they aren't really that rich or they have all their money locked up to the point they couldn't even somehow scrape together ~$150,000, which is kinda ridiculous. Anyway, no pt for me to continue since you obviously think you're right.

[AiredaleDad]

There are differnet kinds of Wealthy people. There are those who like to enjoy their money because they know they can't take it with them. And there are those that are looking at generational Wealth-as-Power and want to use their money to keep generating more and more wealth. Whether it's for their personal retirement, or to pass on to their children. I have been both wealthy, and broke, and, while I will pass something on to some of my descendants, refuse to do so to any one of them not willing to work to improve their own lives first. So I don't let them live expecting a handout. I didn't get one.

I have a friend who came from nothing. We met in the Navy. Our paths diverged somewhat after that. He has managed to create a small medical empire and is much wealthier than I. He has exotic cars (Classic Ferraris, Aston Martins, Porsches etc.). Also a Nice Boat and a house in La Jolla. He is not stuck-up and every time we visit he shows me his newest toys. Not to show off, but because he knows I appreciate them, and am happy for his success without being Jealous. When we go out in his boat, I sail as Captain. Not because I demand to, or expect to, but because he insists, as I have the experience and he learns to be better every time.

He never leases his or his wife's daily drivers because he used to. I asked him about this once out of curiosity. Because he owns his company why doesn't he lease? (Not the exotics, but the daily drivers) He said he realized after a few years of doing this, that even a depreciating asset HAS value in the end. And value is $$. He explained to me that with a lease, you are giving someone your money, for the right to "Borrow" their property, and only get to pretend it's yours while you are borrowing it. In the end, you have to either give their property back, and they get to sell it for a profit you paid for the depreciation of, or you can buy it from them for a pre-arranged price you agreed to when you first took out the lease. If you look at the "Residual" on a lease, it is usually more than true-market-value. Not always, but more times than not.

That Residual number is created by predictions. So it's like gambling. The Lessor, is gambling that the car is going to depreciate at a certain rate, and based on the mileage they "allow you", And the new tires you are going to buy for them, is going to be worth X number of $$ at the end of the lease. Some people put more down than others (Not Corporate Lessees) because they want to pay less per month to pretend they own the car, and they have the cash to cover it. The residual does not change based on how much they put down. They are pre-paying a part of their monthly payments. The car may be worth more than that value, or less, depending on several variables. They have learned over the years to be pretty accurate. So they always set it up where if you want to buy it, you will pay more than FMV. But the odds are if you like the car you will pay that, because it's what you agreed to. And it makes you feel as if all those lease payments we not really lease payments, but loan payments.

When you buy, either financed, partially financed, or Cash, the asset is your property. You can sell it whenever you want with no penalties. Nobody is going to demand you pay a fee for the right to sell it (Other than the bank making you pay off your loan). If you pay it off and want to give it away, trade, Sell, beat with a hammer, etc. It's your right to do so. It's "worth" is whatever you value it at. And whatever someone else is willing to pay for it. I have bought cars (Used) and driven them a couple of years, then sometimes sold them for a profit (Over FMV), or not. it depends on whatever FMV is, and how much it's worth to the buyer. Selling is always better than trading in. Dealers won't pay what it's worth. They pay Wholesale as if it was going to auction.

Disclaimer: I have nothing against leases, or Lessees. I don't look down on anyone whether they own or Lease. Everyone has the right to drive whatever car they want, and Lease or buy as they see fit and can afford. Everyone has their own reasons to buy or lease and I respect that. These are my opinions only, and not meant to offend anyone. If you are offended, I apologize.

[avi66]

In the UK PCP (personal contract purchase) is probably the most common financial solution for BMW, but there’s also PCH (personal contract hire), which is a rental with no ownership option, just like hiring a car from Enterprise, but for a longer term. Also many employees in the UK choose to take a cash alternative to a company car, so these schemes can work well for this.

With PCP the consumer is simply financing the known depreciation of the car, an amount set by BMW at the outset, and premium brand cars tend to retain a higher % or their new value, hence lower depreciation, therefore a lower amount for the consumer to finance, and a reduction in the amount paid monthly.

Another benefit of PCP is BMW takes the risk on the guaranteed future value (GFV), whilst also providing an ownership option at the end of the term. So if the market tanks and the car is worth less than the GFV (a higher GFV means less depreciation so less to finance in the first place) just hand it back and walk away (buying outright with cash your cash is lost ). If the market is good, sell/trade the car and take the equity, or just pay the GFV and keep the car. Don’t fall for the BS about a lower GFV means you have more equity at the end, as you are just paying this difference in the amount you finance, and the risk is yours if the car is worth less.

The interest rate on my current PCP, is 2.9%, and my multi year fixed rate bond saving is 6.1%. So do I choose to put my cash into a depreciating new car, or making money from my cash ?

In my case the difference is a £3-4k net benefit over the term using PCP and investing the cash, rather than using the cash to buy new outright. That’s in addition to potential equity at the end of the term if I choose to sell or trade.

There are also benefits here around consumer protection, because the finance provider is also severally responsible for the quality of the goods or a breach of contract by the seller. If you pay 100% cash there is no additional consumer protection.

Financing is just a tool, and the preconception that it’s only for people that otherwise can’t afford something isn’t necessarily the case. Personally, I just evaluate the best use of my capital, overall cost, and risk factors.

YMMV.

[reallymarkedup]

[Dégoûté]

If owning a home is better than renting, how can leasing a car be better than owning it? Genuinely asking.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by Dégoûté

If owning a home is better than renting, how can leasing a car be better than owning it? Genuinely asking.

Property is an investment that generally appreciates in value over time.

A car, like a daily use BMW, is a depreciating asset that loses value, typically as soon as it leaves the showroom. There are some exceptions such as specialist and collectible cars that are investment assets.

As with any investments value can go up or down at a given time.

[Dégoûté]

Originally Posted by avi66

Property is an investment that generally appreciates in value over time.

A car, like a daily use BMW, is a depreciating asset that loses value, typically as soon as it leaves the showroom. There are some exceptions such as specialist and collectible cars that are investment assets.

As with any investments value can go up or down at a given time.

Yes. So any money i spend on a car, i KNOW is a sunk cost. Why would i want to perpetually stay in the depreciation curve? My goal would be to extract max value from the depreciating asset since i am definitely paying the whole cost of the item already with no way to avoid a loss. At some point the car will stop depreciating and even the metal its made of ultimately has value. Why would i want to avoid that period where i start to regain value from the car? Unless im talking bullocks.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by Dégoûté

Yes. So any money i spend on a car, i KNOW is a sunk cost. Why would i want to perpetually stay in the depreciation curve? My goal would be to extract max value from the depreciating asset since i am definitely paying the whole cost of the item already with no way to avoid a loss. At some point the car will stop depreciating and even the metal its made of ultimately has value. Why would i want to avoid that period where i start to regain value from the car? Unless im talking bullocks.

Think you hit the nail on the head in your last sentence.

I don’t know many people that at 50 own the same car they purchased at 17. Most people don’t buy a car for life, particularly BMW’s that can be money pits outside of warranty.

[SW17LS]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Yes, but we are talking about *wealthy ppl who buy cars*, not those who do other things. I don't think you're really debating the point. Anyway, if you think rich ppl lease instead of buy outright, then they aren't really that rich or they have all their money locked up to the point they couldn't even somehow scrape together ~$150,000, which is kinda ridiculous. Anyway, no pt for me to continue since you obviously think you're right.

I don't think I'm right, I know I'm right lol

Its not about "scraping together money", I could have the money in 24 hours, its about taking money that I am earning money on and using it to buy something that loses value...it just doesn't make sense. Then I have to pay taxes on that money vs the cost of driving the car being tax deductible, which makes even less sense. Others may not care about the loss of the return on the money, other people may have so much money they don't care about maximizing the return on their assets...theres nothing "wrong" with that, but that doesn't change the fact that if they can invest that $150,000 earning a 9% return, and borrowing money to buy that car costs 4%, they are losing money by not investing that money vs paying cash for the car. Thats just a fact.

Its the same argument about buying used vs new in reverse. Buying used is much cheaper over time, thats just a fact. Owning and keeping a car long term is much cheaper than leasing over and over again, also a fact.

Originally Posted by AiredaleDad

There are differnet kinds of Wealthy people. There are those who like to enjoy their money because they know they can't take it with them. And there are those that are looking at generational Wealth-as-Power and want to use their money to keep generating more and more wealth. Whether it's for their personal retirement, or to pass on to their children. I have been both wealthy, and broke, and, while I will pass something on to some of my descendants, refuse to do so to any one of them not willing to work to improve their own lives first. So I don't let them live expecting a handout. I didn't get one.

I have a friend who came from nothing. We met in the Navy. Our paths diverged somewhat after that. He has managed to create a small medical empire and is much wealthier than I. He has exotic cars (Classic Ferraris, Aston Martins, Porsches etc.). Also a Nice Boat and a house in La Jolla. He is not stuck-up and every time we visit he shows me his newest toys. Not to show off, but because he knows I appreciate them, and am happy for his success without being Jealous. When we go out in his boat, I sail as Captain. Not because I demand to, or expect to, but because he insists, as I have the experience and he learns to be better every time.

I completely agree you should enjoy your money. I see people who have money and want to just make more and more money and never enjoy it and you wonder why...

I am never jealous of anybody either. Thats an abundance mindset, being jealous of others is a scarcity mindset. Successful people don't envy others, they create success for themselves.

He never leases his or his wife's daily drivers because he used to. I asked him about this once out of curiosity. Because he owns his company why doesn't he lease? (Not the exotics, but the daily drivers) He said he realized after a few years of doing this, that even a depreciating asset HAS value in the end. And value is $$. He explained to me that with a lease, you are giving someone your money, for the right to "Borrow" their property, and only get to pretend it's yours while you are borrowing it. In the end, you have to either give their property back, and they get to sell it for a profit you paid for the depreciation of, or you can buy it from them for a pre-arranged price you agreed to when you first took out the lease. If you look at the "Residual" on a lease, it is usually more than true-market-value. Not always, but more times than not.

That Residual number is created by predictions. So it's like gambling. The Lessor, is gambling that the car is going to depreciate at a certain rate, and based on the mileage they "allow you", And the new tires you are going to buy for them, is going to be worth X number of $$ at the end of the lease. Some people put more down than others (Not Corporate Lessees) because they want to pay less per month to pretend they own the car, and they have the cash to cover it. The residual does not change based on how much they put down. They are pre-paying a part of their monthly payments. The car may be worth more than that value, or less, depending on several variables. They have learned over the years to be pretty accurate. So they always set it up where if you want to buy it, you will pay more than FMV. But the odds are if you like the car you will pay that, because it's what you agreed to. And it makes you feel as if all those lease payments we not really lease payments, but loan payments.

This is really just in his head. For one you never put anything down on a lease, never. Just pay the first month at drive off and go. Like you said you are just prepaying rent and taking downside risk on yourself off of the lender's shoulders. You also should never lease THEN buy out the lease. If you want to keep the car, buy it at the onset. Always costlier to lease, then buy the car out than to have just bought it upfront. But, if it works for him it works for him.

I have done the numbers over and over many times, and if you are going to keep the car less than 5 years, its very rare that the numbers come out ahead buying vs leasing. After 5 years its the opposite. Not sure how its gambling, there is a floor...you can take advantage of any upside in residual value, but don't have to shoulder the potential downside because there is a floor below which the downside risk is theirs not yours.

When you buy, either financed, partially financed, or Cash, the asset is your property. You can sell it whenever you want with no penalties. Nobody is going to demand you pay a fee for the right to sell it (Other than the bank making you pay off your loan). If you pay it off and want to give it away, trade, Sell, beat with a hammer, etc. It's your right to do so. It's "worth" is whatever you value it at. And whatever someone else is willing to pay for it. I have bought cars (Used) and driven them a couple of years, then sometimes sold them for a profit (Over FMV), or not. it depends on whatever FMV is, and how much it's worth to the buyer. Selling is always better than trading in. Dealers won't pay what it's worth. They pay Wholesale as if it was going to auction.

This is all just a state of mind. You can sell a leased car if you want, but if you want that ultimate flexibility leasing isn't for you. I'm going to have it for 3 years and get something else, I don't need the flexibility. I always trade out and come out even or ahead too vs turning it in, but if I can't accomplish that I can just turn it in. The car being an "asset" that I own is of no consequence to me as it just continually loses value.

Sure I can make more money selling it myself vs trading it in, but not enough more to make it worth it to me to go through that hassle. Quite frankly I'm better off spending my energy working on what I do for a living.

These are my opinions only, and not meant to offend anyone. If you are offended, I apologize.

No offense at all, its a very interesting discussion.

Originally Posted by Dégoûté

If owning a home is better than renting, how can leasing a car be better than owning it? Genuinely asking.

Because in general a home goes up in value, cars don't.

Thats another one...people wanting to have a paid off mortgage. My mortgage is 3%, I'm not paying that off until I absolutely have to.

es. So any money i spend on a car, i KNOW is a sunk cost. Why would i want to perpetually stay in the depreciation curve? My goal would be to extract max value from the depreciating asset since i am definitely paying the whole cost of the item already with no way to avoid a loss. At some point the car will stop depreciating and even the metal its made of ultimately has value. Why would i want to avoid that period where i start to regain value from the car? Unless im talking bullocks.

Because a car is not just an appliance, its something that many of us really enjoy. So, we want what we want and we pay what that costs. I don't want to drive the same car for 5, 10, 15, 20 years. If you're happy doing that then you should do that.

Note that people who buy and lease new cars never try and convince others that they should buy and lease new cars...its always the other way around. You are right, buying a used car and keeping it forever is much cheaper...just don't want to do that.

[AiredaleDad]

I normally up 'til now I would only buy a 2YO lease return. However being where I am , and doing what I do has presented me with the unique opportunity to purchase a NEW 540Xi for the same or similar price I would pay for a 2YO lease return. Because of the tax-free program available to me, plus the BMW Discount for Service Members and Civil Service stationed overseas, I can buy (Have already paid for, just waiting for build and delivery) my NEW car, and take delivery and drive it tax-free in Spain for as long as I am stationed here. When I return to the US, The Government will ship it home for me for free, and I will pay taxes on the depreciated value of the car at the time in whatever state I move to. Most likely that will be back in Seattle, or San Diego.

Now, while I was in the process of deciding whether I wanted an Audi A-6, or a BMW 5er, I took the opportunity while visiting my Daughter in the SF Bay Area, to test drive both. While looking into it I noted that both vehicles require a break in period from new. However, the SR at both dealerships encouraged me to "Just Punch It" during the test drive to show off their power and acceleration of the engines. Is that not violating the break in? So if 30 people test drive that car could that not create reliability problems in those motors? Granted, most people who walk into these dealers test drive the top of the line, then look at the price tag and start looking at their less expensive models, and hope they will drive as well. (It's a sales tactic when a salesman KNOWS someone can't afford a specific car. They test drive them in the one they want, then show them them the one they can actually afford and tell them the only difference is......which they don't really need anyway.)

Not to mention the many people I have heard on this and other forums talking about how they abuse their Leased cars, because "It's just a lease. That's the next owner's problem" So they don't worry about preserving battery life, performing temporary Reversible mods to increase engine output, Taking their new cars to the track to test launch control, etc...

I am starting to re-think my prior policy on 2YO Lease returns. I think from now on I am only going to buy new cars. And I am going to custom order any cars I buy even if there is an identical one on the lot already, just to make sure the car I buy has not been beaten up, then made to look pretty. Maybe if I buy a car that the dealer ordered and it just came off the truck and has not been prepped yet, maybe I would buy off the lot if it had all the options I wanted.