2020 Toyota Supra Spy Shots

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Interesting, and certainly believable. So the only manual one would likely be a heavier, more powerful, larger BRZ of sorts. Not especially appealing.

Or, more accurately, a larger 86. But consider this:

The 86's big weakness is torque. Not power, but torque. It makes about 200 HP but only about 150 ft-lbs, IIRC, and weighs about 2,800 lbs. That's why it can do what it can do handling-wise on such skinny OEM rubber; it doesn't need wide, sticky rubber to put torque to tarmac because it doesn't have a lot of torque!

Let's assume a base Supra would weigh around 3,300 lbs. It will likely have an engine that makes roughly 50 HP more -- about 25 percent more than an 86 -- but roughly 70 percent more torque than the 86. And that's the base engine, NOT the tuned one.

For a four banger, that could be massively appealing.

[supra93]

If BMW is doing all the testing and the two will be built on the same plant it makes me think it would most likely use a BMW I6.

[ODU135]

all that sounds interesting but kinda depressing. I just want it to be manual and have a motor than is capable of some enormous power numbers like the n54 yet be more reliable than an n54!

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by ODU135

what does everyone wish the new supra will have? For me, in a dream world the new supra would have:

-an inline 6 twin turbo, that has more tuning and aftermarket potential than the n54. Also more reliability (shouldn't be hard)
-RWD and 6 speed manual transmission
-Be wide enough to fit some decent rubber in the wheel. (unlike the 135i)
-cost around 40K for a base or possibly less.

Id probably be in the market for one if it fits those criteria

More tuning potential than the N54? Lol.

[motorwerkeman]

Best renders so far:

[supra93]

^Needs a drop and the front end cleaned up a little.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

This is heavily rumored by multiple sources -- and based on what Toyota typically does with its model trims, this is the most likely scenario:

There will be three levels of Supra:
- Base will be RWD and have a single twin-scroll turbo four -- probably the same engine in the Lexus GS -- with a higher-power model available. Maybe a Bxx BMW engine? Perhaps ...
- Mid will be the twin-turbo V6 that was just launched in the Lexus LS500, re-tuned for performance. It will NOT be the NA V8 in the Lexus LC500. RWD and AWD will be available.
- High will be an AWD hybrid, probably paired with the V6 and likely a similar powertrain to the Lexus LC500 hybrid. Rumors suggest that the electric motor is housed within the transmission, suggesting that it will primarily be used to supply extra torque and low-load power. It will actually makes less power than the standalone TT V6.

Based on all of this, I'm really, really curious which models get an MT option and which won't. Plainly the hybrid won't ... and I suspect the standalone V6 won't, either. I bet the only trim that gets one will be the TST 4 bangers.

Awful, will the targa even return? Oh well, my 94TT will always live on in my heart. In 2018 we can start importing RHD Supras anyway!

[Red Bread]

If those renders are true, the first aftermarket beak-ectomy will make millions.

Looks like just replacing the front bumper cover will completely fix that dumb maw.

[jpnh]

beak-ectomy is mandatory

thats just "fugly"

[supra93]

Photochop of the FT-1 with the prototype's proportion and a few tone down elements.

[TSM330i]

Sorry if I missed it, but does the Supra have a small back seat?

[supra93]

^The FT-1 does, but the prototype looks like a 2 seater too me.

[Viffermike]

Just FYI ... looks like a mockup of a magazine advertising supplement for the new Supra may have been leaked. It verifies much of what I've been saying, except for a few tidbits:

- The non-hybrid models will range from just below 3,000 to about 3,150 pounds. (That's about the same weight as the base 230i and significantly lighter than the M240i)
- The 4-cylinder engines appear to BMW B46 engines: the base one from the 320i, and the twin-scroll version from the 230i/330i.
- The 6-cylinder may very well be a slightly hopped-up BMW B58. It is definitely not a Lexus V6; both of those are 3.5-liter engines. The one referenced in the brochure is a 3.0 liter.

Well ... with those engines and the Toyota nameplate, the gas-only Supras won't be costing more than $50k USD. What'll be interesting is how much BMW charges for the Z5 relative to the Supra.

[supra93]

Alleged brochure for new Toyota Supra is fake

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-supra-is-fake

This 2018 Toyota Supra Brochure Is A Big Fake

http://jalopnik.com/this-2018-toyota...ake-1792295418

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by supra93

Alleged brochure for new Toyota Supra is fake

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-supra-is-fake

This 2018 Toyota Supra Brochure Is A Big Fake

http://jalopnik.com/this-2018-toyota...ake-1792295418

Aaah, rumors ...

[supra93]

^The weight from the brochure sounds good, but it needs more power IMO. I wouldn't mind the N55 from the M2 for a $50k base model.

[Red Bread]

Sure you wouldn't rather have a closed deck B58?

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by supra93

^The weight from the brochure sounds good, but it needs more power IMO. I wouldn't mind the N55 from the M2 for a $50k base model.

Right there with you, but rumors aside, the base Supra was never going to come with a six-potter. Not in this day and age, not to keep the price points competitive, and not to stay sufficiently distanced from the Z5.

Particularly if BMW engines will be used in the Supra in any model (still a very real possibility), the latter will be a huge, huge priority for both companies -- particularly starting in 2019, when the Supra 'vert and Z5 coupe should both become available. There's got to be significant price differences between the two -- probably close to five figures -- to keep each in its own niche. My bet is that Supras will be modeled closer to the 86 in terms of performance (relatively low power, light weight, tech), while the Z5 will be modeled closer to the F-Type, M-B SL, and higher Boxster/Cayman trims (more power, heavier, significantly more luxurious).

[mxa121]

I would love to see a car draw buyers from the Cayman/Boxster variants as those stand at the top of the two seat sports car segment. Sure, you have the C7 which is marvelous, but the P cars deliver on more levels.
Here's to hoping the Supra/Z5 come out swinging and deliver a package that is not only quick, but FEELS good.

[supra93]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Right there with you, but rumors aside, the base Supra was never going to come with a six-potter. Not in this day and age, not to keep the price points competitive, and not to stay sufficiently distanced from the Z5.

Particularly if BMW engines will be used in the Supra in any model (still a very real possibility), the latter will be a huge, huge priority for both companies -- particularly starting in 2019, when the Supra 'vert and Z5 coupe should both become available. There's got to be significant price differences between the two -- probably close to five figures -- to keep each in its own niche. My bet is that Supras will be modeled closer to the 86 in terms of performance (relatively low power, light weight, tech), while the Z5 will be modeled closer to the F-Type, M-B SL, and higher Boxster/Cayman trims (more power, heavier, significantly more luxurious).

Awhile back they have hinted at a $50k staring price tag; I just can't see people spending that much for a 4 cylinder base model. If its a 4 banger with that price tag I would rather get a C7.

In my opinion to better differentiate it from the 86 it should be a 6 cylinder of some form. I believe someone on this forum has said the BMW will only come as a drop top and the Toyota as a coupe, so they won't steal sales from each other.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by supra93

Awhile back they have hinted at a $50k staring price tag; I just can't see people spending that much for a 4 cylinder base model. If its a 4 banger with that price tag I would rather get a C7.

Nor can I -- my argument then was that it would need to be badged a Lexus to make that viable. That's why I think the base models will start in the mid-$30k range, with the six being priced roughly where the M240i is now.

Originally Posted by supra93

In my opinion to better differentiate it from the 86 it should be a 6 cylinder of some form. I believe someone on this forum has said the BMW will only come as a drop top and the Toyota as a coupe, so they won't steal sales from each other.

A twin-scroll four and the 86's engine are two very, very different animals. I don't think it'd be a stretch as long as the fours in the Supra significantly differ, both in power delivery and driveability (i.e., flat torque curves), from those in the 86/BRZ.

It's been reported that both models will be offered in both convertible and coupe form 1 to 2 years after their respective launches. I wouldn't be surprised if one or both of those are delayed or killed, depending on how well the Supra Coupe/Z5 'vert do in 2018.

[supra93]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Nor can I -- my argument then was that it would need to be badged a Lexus to make that viable. That's why I think the base models will start in the mid-$30k range, with the six being priced roughly where the M240i is now.

A twin-scroll four and the 86's engine are two very, very different animals. I don't think it'd be a stretch as long as the fours in the Supra significantly differ, both in power delivery and driveability (i.e., flat torque curves), from those in the 86/BRZ.

It's been reported that both models will be offered in both convertible and coupe form 1 to 2 years after their respective launches. I wouldn't be surprised if one or both of those are delayed or killed, depending on how well the Supra Coupe/Z5 'vert do in 2018.

That would be great for the average joe, but could they really go that low? The base Z4 already starts at $50k.

Of course, but its just the whole image thing. People just seem to hate the idea of any form of a 4 cylinder Supra. If they wanted a cheap base model, personally I would rather Toyota just drop in the 2GR.