Horner in trouble at Red Bull

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

^ If it is discovered that this whole thing has been made with the intention of targeting CH with a spurious accusation linked to others who have their own agenda then it could well be them who will end up leaving.

Unlikely that the RBR employee claim is made up or a set-up. At this stage it's a claim, no verdict by a judge.

More likely seems a casus belli for those who want Horner to leave or at least to get his wings clipped.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Unlikely that the RBR employee claim is made up or a set-up. At this stage it's a claim, no verdict by a judge.

More likely seems a casus belli for those who want Horner to leave or at least to get his wings clipped.

Maybe or maybe not but you mention it yourself in that if it does get back to 'those' who are attempting to use this as a reason to oust CH, which looking at it is weak, and if it gets back to those persons then they themselves could be in the 'dock' with the boss in Austria.

[M5Rick]

CH is in central London today at a secret location speaking with the lawyer/barrister appointed by RB gmbh, could be at a lawyer firm.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/christ...eline-red-bull

[3798j]

So much for a quick resolution...
"Christian Horner's fate remains uncertain as the investigation's results are unlikely to be announced before the Bahrain Grand Prix."

https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/...ts-pushed-back

Edit: "The company hopes to have the matter resolved before Red Bull's 2024 F1 season launch event on Wednesday at its Milton Keynes headquarters."

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/3...cted-next-week

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Artemis

More likely seems a casus belli for those who want Horner to leave or at least to get his wings clipped.

I also think this is more of a smokescreen.
The original stories tended more to a sexual claim, but now it's already called "coercive, controlling behaviour", which can mean anything.
My expectation is that we'll hear nothing tangible for 1 or 2 months and then read that the alledged accusations are not true and nobody cares anymore as it's then old news.

I have a customer who knows Horner personally (former RB and AT employee), and he sais Horner can be a real jerk on the workfloor, but...that's an opinion of an ex employee, so that's probably coloured too.
So who knows who wants him gone...

[///MPhatic]

Everybody wants the cake, but not the consequences.

The type of person it takes to hold this position for a week, let alone multiple years, is the type of person that will always be accused of being too aggressive, too strict, prone to bad behavior, etc. It's part of the equation.

Regardless of what he said or did to whatever girl or guy, it's par for that course, and in fact, happens regularly...

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I also think this is more of a smokescreen.
The original stories tended more to a sexual claim, but now it's already called "coercive, controlling behaviour", which can mean anything.
My expectation is that we'll hear nothing tangible for 1 or 2 months and then read that the alledged accusations are not true and nobody cares anymore as it's then old news.

I have a customer who knows Horner personally (former RB and AT employee), and he sais Horner can be a real jerk on the workfloor, but...that's an opinion of an ex employee, so that's probably coloured too.
So who knows who wants him gone...

Horner is a perfectionist and extremely motivated, and the employee really sucked at the RB workfloor.

Some employees rest before they are tired...

I would kick her/his a$$ too !

BTW : Last year I fired 4 from these s@ckers at the workfloor ...

[Mr Pete]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Horner is a perfectionist and extremely motivated, and the employee really sucked at the RB workfloor.

Some employees rest before they are tired...

I would kick her/his a$$ too !

BTW : Last year I fired 4 from these s@ckers at the workfloor ...

Todays workplace world with the ‘feelings’ we have to manage, the sensitive egos we have to stroke, it’s an extreme pain in the ass to navigate through.

Sometimes I question why I’m a business owner. But after doing this for 14 years, and no other relevant skill set (lol), I just keep grinding away putting out fires without trying to make anyone cry. Joy.

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by Mr Pete

Todays workplace world with the ‘feelings’ we have to manage, the sensitive egos we have to stroke, it’s an extreme pain in the ass to navigate through.

+1

Especially powerful bosses and small business owners. God is my witness the number of prima donna that I have put up with during the years. Meetings on Fridays at 4:30pm, weekly exec reports summarising the weekly reports, call me sir, don’t disagree with me, everybody seated before I arrive, don’t put a full stop at the end of bullet points, don’t hyphenate, no jean even on Fridays, etc, etc. Indeed, many bosses are a total pain in the arse.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I also think this is more of a smokescreen.
The original stories tended more to a sexual claim, but now it's already called "coercive, controlling behaviour", which can mean anything.
My expectation is that we'll hear nothing tangible for 1 or 2 months and then read that the alledged accusations are not true and nobody cares anymore as it's then old news.

I have a customer who knows Horner personally (former RB and AT employee), and he sais Horner can be a real jerk on the workfloor, but...that's an opinion of an ex employee, so that's probably coloured too.
So who knows who wants him gone...

Can anyone be surprised that CH is an a-hole? F1 is a pressure cooker.

[murderspice]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Can anyone be surprised that CH is an a-hole? F1 is a pressure cooker.

I would. Seems like a nice enough guy.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

^ If it is discovered that this whole thing has been made with the intention of targeting CH with a spurious accusation linked to others who have their own agenda then it could well be them who will end up leaving.

nah, powerful people get away with murder in broad daylight. i doubt it.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Can anyone be surprised that CH is an a-hole? F1 is a pressure cooker.

if CH bows to all his subordinates RB wouldn't have won anything.

if Max allows everyone to pass, or doesn't pass when the other guy defends, he won't win any races!

[G30M]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

Everybody wants the cake, but not the consequences.

The type of person it takes to hold this position for a week, let alone multiple years, is the type of person that will always be accused of being too aggressive, too strict, prone to bad behavior, etc. It's part of the equation.

Regardless of what he said or did to whatever girl or guy, it's par for that course, and in fact, happens regularly...

and the best part of this is, he's accused of "inappropriate controlling behaviour". it doesn't get more woke - i mean less criminal than this! please define appropriate controlling behaviours ...

it's not assault, it's not sexism, not racism, not harassment, not bribery, not blackmail, not sexual (it was and then it wasn't?) i mean, what even do those words mean!

c'mon Marko - i mean Red Bull, you can do better than this? give us more meaningfully worded accusations to chew on!

I'm not defending CH, but no police involved, but within a few hours they find and pay a barrister of their choice to "investigate". by the time they hired that barrister, s/he already has all the information he needs from the employee. i'd say the decision has been made.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

Especially powerful bosses and small business owners. God is my witness the number of prima donna that I have put up with during the years. Meetings on Fridays at 4:30pm, weekly exec reports summarising the weekly reports, call me sir, don’t disagree with me, everybody seated before I arrive, don’t put a full stop at the end of bullet points, don’t hyphenate, no jean even on Fridays, etc, etc. Indeed, many bosses are a total pain in the arse.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Artemis

that's very inappropriate controlling behaviour, Agent. i come to work when i feel like it.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Other tidbit from that article:

"Critically, Horner may still have the support of Red Bull’s non-Austrian ownership camp, the Thais, who control 51 percent of the energy drink brand.
“I have the feeling that the Austrian side really wants to get rid of Horner, especially with this issue,” Erik van Haren, a Dutch journalist for De Telegraaf, who has been very close to the story, said on the DRS De Race Show podcast.
“I think the Thai owner is still on Horner’s side at the moment. Ultimately, he has the most important voice.”"

For the record: the Dutch F1 journalist Erik van Haren has access to the inner circle of the Verstappens. He seems to have some sort of bee-line with them (especially Jos).

Makes me believe this part of the story even less.

That story that Perez intentionally crashed his car is complete hogwash. It's that type of journalism that has created all of this nonsense.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by g21

and the best part of this is, he's accused of "inappropriate controlling behaviour". it doesn't get more woke...

Amen.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by dfox

Makes me believe this part of the story even less.

That story that Perez intentionally crashed his car is complete hogwash. It's that type of journalism that has created all of this nonsense.

i think you need to watch the analysis of that crash (not in depth, just video with telemetry). serious.

[Marcoose]

I still don't know what Horner did. And I know nothing about his managerial style.

For sure F1 is massively demanding, and RBR is at the top of the heap. If one doesn't like that type of environment --I don't--, then go work elsewhere. Being difficult goes both ways.

But any half decent manager knows about the 5-6 styles of management. I too used to be rather austere. And sadly I've ruined a few friendships. Thankfully that's far behind me now. Today I go by what a dear girlfriend taught me: 'You get more from bees with honey'. Night and day. But I dig, I'm not running a massively demanding F1 team. But there's the other saying. 'You reap what you sow.' Hopefully there's a lesson here for Horner. It's never too late to change for the better.

[GuidoK]

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Spot on !

Checo crashed at Monaco 100% on purpose .

What he did with his steering wheel is just crazy !