Still want an EV? (NO POLITICS)

[DrVenture]

I stopped reading these posts when I realized what the thread really was. Took me too long. It should have been titled "Still want an EV? (Politics implied, just not overt).

The thing is no one should care so much about other people's choices. Yeah, I know, "They are using my tax dollars". To which I would point to the part in bold.

They (No Politics) spend money on all sorts of things that people do not like. I just figure it all balances out and the only answer is to make more money faster, because complaining ain't going to change anything. Unless one cannot do that.

Flame and rationalize away. Toss around selected facts. Emphasize what suits you. Three years on the same topic, is the definition of obsession...or trolling. Not coming back to respond to anything here. This is all the time I am wasting on this topic.

[Pauly Wauly]

I just come here to read gblansten posts. He`s the "BOMB"

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by DrVenture

I stopped reading these posts when I realized what the thread really was. Took me too long. It should have been titled "Still want an EV? (Politics implied, just not overt).

The thing is no one should care so much about other people's choices. Yeah, I know, "They are using my tax dollars". To which I would point to the part in bold.

They (No Politics) spend money on all sorts of things that people do not like. I just figure it all balances out and the only answer is to make more money faster, because complaining ain't going to change anything. Unless one cannot do that.

Flame and rationalize away. Toss around selected facts. Emphasize what suits you. Three years on the same topic, is the definition of obsession...or trolling. Not coming back to respond to anything here. This is all the time I am wasting on this topic.

Bye then.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Pauly Wauly

I just come here to read gblansten posts. He`s the "BOMB"

I agree, he's a reasonable poster and I'm glad he joins into the mix here.

[Pauly Wauly]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I agree, he's a reasonable poster and I'm glad he joins into the mix here.

Yeah, he sounds like a really nice person, and he`s a very funny guy (I mean that in a good way). I like it that he does not get offended about all the crap EV`s get on this thread when he owns an EV.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by DrVenture

I stopped reading these posts when I realized what the thread really was. Took me too long. It should have been titled "Still want an EV? (Politics implied, just not overt).

The thing is no one should care so much about other people's choices. Yeah, I know, "They are using my tax dollars". To which I would point to the part in bold.

They (No Politics) spend money on all sorts of things that people do not like. I just figure it all balances out and the only answer is to make more money faster, because complaining ain't going to change anything. Unless one cannot do that.

Flame and rationalize away. Toss around selected facts. Emphasize what suits you. Three years on the same topic, is the definition of obsession...or trolling. Not coming back to respond to anything here. This is all the time I am wasting on this topic.

:golf:

But seriously, the points we've made are:
- BEV are more expensive to buy than their like class-size competitors.
- The break even cost is achieved between 70,000 and 90,000 miles.
- If you can't charge at home, BEV are a pain in the ass to own.
- Winter range and recharge time suck.
- BEV are more expensive to insure.
- BEV have a higher risk of being totaled in low speed/light impact collisions.
- BEV are range and recharge speed impaired.

Most of the market sees those same points. The sale of BEV have to be incentivized via tax credits. The charging infrastructure has to be government funded because private enterprise sees no profit in it.

Feel free to counter any of them.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

:golf:

But seriously, the points we've made, which are:
BEV are more expensive to buy than their like class-size competitors.
The break even cost is achieved between 70,000 and 90,000 miles.
If you can't charge at home, BEV are a pain in the ass to own.
Winter range and recharge time suck.
BEV are more expensive to insure.
BEV have a higher risk of being totaled in low speed/light impact collisions.
BEV are range and recharge speed impaired.

Most of the market sees those same points. The sale of BEV have to be incentivised via tax credits. The charging infrastructure has to be government funded because private enterprise sees no profit in it.

Feel free to counter any of them.

Does it take 400+ pages to make 7 points? I don't come in here often because it's pretty clear most of the people in here are not looking to discuss EVs. They are here for the EV hate circle jerk.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Does it take 400+ pages to make 7 points? I don't come in here often because it's pretty clear most of the people in here are not looking to discuss EVs. They are here for the EV hate circle jerk.

Think you know why a lot of people are discussing with the way 100% battery cars are being introduced and what's in the pipeline so it shouldn't come as that much of a surprise to you.

[RockCrusher]

Recent (Friday?) WSJ had an article on Ford cutting back on EVs. And Stellantis was mentioned, too.

Hard to come to the defense of the auto industry but they are caught between a rock and a hard place. The government emissions regulations pretty much outlaw/ban ICE vehicles in a few years.

While the government can ban ICE vehicles (I guess) it can't (yet...) force people to buy EVs.

And now the early adopters and virtual signaling customers have EVs continuing sales are up to those not in these two camps of EV buyers. Based on sales reports they are staying away from EVs in droves.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Does it take 400+ pages to make 7 points? I don't come in here often because it's pretty clear most of the people in here are not looking to discuss EVs. They are here for the EV hate circle jerk.

What of my 7 points are EV hate? All the points are factual based. If you can, offer counter points; that would be a discussion. None of your reply is discussion. "Circle jerk" is not a counter point response. Sorta borders on "hate".

[David70]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Recent (Friday?) WSJ had an article on Ford cutting back on EVs. And Stellantis was mentioned, too.

Hard to come to the defense of the auto industry but they are caught between a rock and a hard place. The government emissions regulations pretty much outlaw/ban ICE vehicles in a few years.

While the government can ban ICE vehicles (I guess) it can't (yet...) force people to buy EVs.

And now the early adopters and virtual signaling customers have EVs continuing sales are up to those not in these two camps of EV buyers. Based on sales reports they are staying away from EVs in droves.

I'm interested in seeing the "based on sales reports they are staying away from EV's in droves"

This is what I found, sales are up 7.3% first half of 2024 vs first half of 2023 -

EV sales in Q2 2024 increased 22.9% from Q1 2024, and were up 11.3% year-over-year. In the first half of 2024 (H1 2024), U.S. electric vehicle sales totaled 599,372 cars, which is 7.3% higher than H1 2023.


https://caredge.com/guides/electric-...hare-and-sales

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

What of my 7 points are EV hate? All the points are factual based. If you can, offer counter points; that would be a discussion. None of your reply is discussion. "Circle jerk" is not a counter point response. Sorta borders on "hate".

My point was this THREAD is an EV hate circle jerk, which was also the point of the post you were replying to. I never said your specific 7 points were EV hate, but you already know this.

The actual EV discussion ended 400 pages ago. All of your points have already been addressed many times over. That being said what you posted is basically just YOUR list of things YOU consider negatives about EVs. I can come up with a list of 7 things I consider negatives about literally any vehicle... but yet only EVs get the 400+ page thread.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by eugenebmw

Homeowner struggles to install EV charging equipment in garage under new, restrictive state law: 'I'm really unhappy about this'

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-ho...l-florida-law/

Good luck to my American friends

EU regs (2024):

• "Recharging in relation to buildings is particularly important, since this is where electric vehicles park regularly and for long periods of time. Slow recharging is economical and the installation of recharging points in private spaces can provide energy storage to the related building and integration of smart recharging services and bi-directional recharging and system integration services in general."
• "Building codes can be effectively used to introduce targeted requirements to support the deployment of recharging infrastructure in car parks of residential and non-residential buildings. Member States should aim to remove barriers such as split incentives and administrative complications which individual owners encounter when trying to install a recharging point on their parking space."

See recitals 49-53 and Article 14 (especially 14.8) of Directive (EU) 2024/1275 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 24 April 2024 on the energy performance of buildings (recast) - http://data.europa.eu/eli/dir/2024/1275/oj

[XutvJet]

These started showing up at my office building in an affluent part of southern Kansas City about 10 days ago. From what I gather, this is overflow from the local Kansas and Missouri dealers that sit about 5 miles to the east and west of our building.

[Dégoûté]

These things are dangerous.

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/08/fo...ine-fire-risk/

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

These started showing up at my office building in an affluent part of southern Kansas City about 10 days ago. From what I gather, this is overflow from the local Kansas and Missouri dealers that sit about 5 miles to the east and west of our building.

Likely surplus to requirements, your Governor ought to be taking action to stop this rot.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

My point was this THREAD is an EV hate circle jerk, which was also the point of the post you were replying to. I never said your specific 7 points were EV hate, but you already know this.

The actual EV discussion ended 400 pages ago. All of your points have already been addressed many times over. That being said what you posted is basically just YOUR list of things YOU consider negatives about EVs. I can come up with a list of 7 things I consider negatives about literally any vehicle... but yet only EVs get the 400+ page thread.

I'm here to discuss EV. That was the point of my post.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by DrVenture

I stopped reading these posts when I realized what the thread really was. Took me too long. It should have been titled "Still want an EV? (Politics implied, just not overt).

The thing is no one should care so much about other people's choices. Yeah, I know, "They are using my tax dollars". To which I would point to the part in bold.

They (No Politics) spend money on all sorts of things that people do not like. I just figure it all balances out and the only answer is to make more money faster, because complaining ain't going to change anything. Unless one cannot do that.

Flame and rationalize away. Toss around selected facts. Emphasize what suits you. Three years on the same topic, is the definition of obsession...or trolling. Not coming back to respond to anything here. This is all the time I am wasting on this topic.

I guess you will never see this but I’ll just add a small tidbit. The “No Politics” was added pretty recently. I’m not sure what happened, but I’m guessing the political debate was heating up and a warning was issued.

Here is a question I have posed in this thread numerous times and I’ve never seen an answer. I’ve also never seen it addressed by the government or the industry. It’s possible someone has addressed it in this thread, because I don’t check it every day, but I’m going to guess it probably still hasn’t been addressed. As Efthreeoh mentioned a few posts back in his list of seven issues, if you can’t charge at home BEVs are a pain to own. So, the issue I’m raising the question about is how do the “powers that be”, whose goal is to force EVs on the market within a pretty compressed time frame, propose folks without garages (or at least driveways) are going to charge their EVs? I live in Chicago. My ballpark estimate is at least 50% of automobiles in the city are owned by folks who only have street parking. I actually think when you take into account the number of car owners who live in large condominium buildings with parking garages the percentage is higher than 50% that don’t have access to home charging stations. There are many cities in the U.S. like Chicago and if I recall correctly the projections are that the city populations will be growing a pretty fair amount over the coming years.

If someone has an idea for how charging apparatus can realistically be installed along the street curbs, please do share. I live in a medium size condominium building that is a little over ten years old. Relatively new for the housing stock in Chicago. We have 180 garage parking spaces in two garages that were not designed to accommodate EV charging stations. About six years ago our association, along with the electric company, had a study done to see how much it would cost to add the basic infrastructure that would allow us to be able to accommodate a garage full of EVs. At that time the cost was estimated at $300,000. Just to bring our basic electric infrastructure up to a level where we could accommodate adding charging stations. My rough estimate is the cost of actually adding 180 charging stations would be in the neighborhood of $1,000,000. Just a little side note. We did the infrastructure study because we had a condo owner who bought a Tesla and got the board to agree to let him install a charging station for his car, which he paid for. As part of that process the board asked the electrician doing the installation how many stations our garage could accommodate and they were told it could not accommodate any others with the current infrastructure.

And then an anecdotal story about EVs being a pain if you can’t charge at home. We recently had someone buy a condo in our building who already owned a Tesla. His parking space is right next to mine. I think he was here less than four months before I saw his Tesla was gone. He actually bought an X1. Not long after that I saw him in the garage and asked him about it. He said it had been too difficult to keep the Tesla charged and also he didn’t like how much the performance of the battery was degraded in the winter time. Of course I asked him how he liked the X1 and he loves it and said he has no plans to go back to an EV.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I guess you will never see this but I’ll just add a small tidbit. The “No Politics” was added pretty recently. I’m not sure what happened, but I’m guessing the political debate was heating up and a warning was issued.

Here is a question I have posed in this thread numerous times and I’ve never seen an answer. I’ve also never seen it addressed by the government or the industry. It’s possible someone has addressed it in this thread, because I don’t check it every day, but I’m going to guess it probably still hasn’t been addressed. As Efthreeoh mentioned a few posts back in his list of seven issues, if you can’t charge at home BEVs are a pain to own. So, the issue I’m raising the question about is how do the “powers that be”, whose goal is to force EVs on the market within a pretty compressed time frame, propose folks without garages (or at least driveways) are going to charge their EVs? I live in Chicago. My ballpark estimate is at least 50% of automobiles in the city are owned by folks who only have street parking. I actually think when you take into account the number of car owners who live in large condominium buildings with parking garages the percentage is higher than 50% that don’t have access to home charging stations. There are many cities in the U.S. like Chicago and if I recall correctly the projections are that the city populations will be growing a pretty fair amount over the coming years.

If someone has an idea for how charging apparatus can realistically be installed along the street curbs, please do share. I live in a medium size condominium building that is a little over ten years old. Relatively new for the housing stock in Chicago. We have 180 garage parking spaces in two garages that were not designed to accommodate EV charging stations. About six years ago our association, along with the electric company, had a study done to see how much it would cost to add the basic infrastructure that would allow us to be able to accommodate a garage full of EVs. At that time the cost was estimated at $300,000. Just to bring our basic electric infrastructure up to a level where we could accommodate adding charging stations. My rough estimate is the cost of actually adding 180 charging stations would be in the neighborhood of $1,000,000. Just a little side note. We did the infrastructure study because we had a condo owner who bought a Tesla and got the board to agree to let him install a charging station for his car, which he paid for. As part of that process the board asked the electrician doing the installation how many stations our garage could accommodate and they were told it could not accommodate any others with the current infrastructure.

And then an anecdotal story about EVs being a pain if you can’t charge at home. We recently had someone buy a condo in our building who already owned a Tesla. His parking space is right next to mine. I think he was here less than four months before I saw his Tesla was gone. He actually bought an X1. Not long after that I saw him in the garage and asked him about it. He said it had been to difficult to keep the Tesla charged and also he didn’t like how much the performance of the battery was degraded in the winter time. Of course I asked him how he liked the X1 and he loves it and said he has no plans to go back to an EV.

I've tried to figure out your question, how many households in the US can accommodate private at home L2 charging. It's hard to find the data, then analyze it. I estimate it is about 45%. That includes people who rent and are not willing to invest in a home L2 charger because they don't own the house. It includes houses that do not have sufficient electrical service to add L2. And it includes homes where the installation cost is prohibitive.

Speaking of Chicago, last winter's charging fiasco that made the news was actually real. The EV advocates tried to blow it off as an anomaly, but I think it opened the eyes of a lot of the market to owning an EV without at-home charging.

I hang out on an EV forum just to get a real owners feel for EV charging. Road trip refueling is so much more difficult than ICEV it's ridiculous. I get it, EV around town is great if one can charge at home, but a single roadtrip and extended wait time to recover range, regardless if I'd do it once a year (original question of this thread BTW) is a deal killer for me. ICEV works for everyone regardless of socio-economic status and living arrangements. Why break it? It makes no sense. ICEV bring equity.

[Dégoûté]

I learned a new word today: https://www.google.com/search?q=conc...&client=safari

Also, progress: https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...es-2024-08-25/

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I guess you will never see this but I’ll just add a small tidbit. The “No Politics” was added pretty recently. I’m not sure what happened, but I’m guessing the political debate was heating up and a warning was issued.

Here is a question I have posed in this thread numerous times and I’ve never seen an answer. I’ve also never seen it addressed by the government or the industry. It’s possible someone has addressed it in this thread, because I don’t check it every day, but I’m going to guess it probably still hasn’t been addressed. As Efthreeoh mentioned a few posts back in his list of seven issues, if you can’t charge at home BEVs are a pain to own. So, the issue I’m raising the question about is how do the “powers that be”, whose goal is to force EVs on the market within a pretty compressed time frame, propose folks without garages (or at least driveways) are going to charge their EVs? I live in Chicago. My ballpark estimate is at least 50% of automobiles in the city are owned by folks who only have street parking. I actually think when you take into account the number of car owners who live in large condominium buildings with parking garages the percentage is higher than 50% that don’t have access to home charging stations. There are many cities in the U.S. like Chicago and if I recall correctly the projections are that the city populations will be growing a pretty fair amount over the coming years.

If someone has an idea for how charging apparatus can realistically be installed along the street curbs, please do share. I live in a medium size condominium building that is a little over ten years old. Relatively new for the housing stock in Chicago. We have 180 garage parking spaces in two garages that were not designed to accommodate EV charging stations. About six years ago our association, along with the electric company, had a study done to see how much it would cost to add the basic infrastructure that would allow us to be able to accommodate a garage full of EVs. At that time the cost was estimated at $300,000. Just to bring our basic electric infrastructure up to a level where we could accommodate adding charging stations. My rough estimate is the cost of actually adding 180 charging stations would be in the neighborhood of $1,000,000. Just a little side note. We did the infrastructure study because we had a condo owner who bought a Tesla and got the board to agree to let him install a charging station for his car, which he paid for. As part of that process the board asked the electrician doing the installation how many stations our garage could accommodate and they were told it could not accommodate any others with the current infrastructure.

And then an anecdotal story about EVs being a pain if you can’t charge at home. We recently had someone buy a condo in our building who already owned a Tesla. His parking space is right next to mine. I think he was here less than four months before I saw his Tesla was gone. He actually bought an X1. Not long after that I saw him in the garage and asked him about it. He said it had been to difficult to keep the Tesla charged and also he didn’t like how much the performance of the battery was degraded in the winter time. Of course I asked him how he liked the X1 and he loves it and said he has no plans to go back to an EV.

This will be the solution for the next 10 years Again good luck to my American friends.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Dégoûté

I learned a new word today: https://www.google.com/search?q=conc...&client=safari

Also, progress: https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...es-2024-08-25/

Here's another, "globalwarmingclimatechange". From your local, friendly Non-Concern Troll...