Bye-bye M-640HP CTS-V

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by ||||||||||

I keep LOL'ing at all of these "fill in the blank just came out with a new car that is better than the M3" threads. If you are that unhappy with your M3, trade it in and let someone who will appreciate it drive the damn thing.

HP and Torque aren't everything. Sure, you can probably find 10 cars right now that are a) cheaper and b) faster than the M3. These aren't the fastest cars in the world. I knew that coming into this. But I don't regret my purchase for one minute, and though my opinion may be biased (the M3 has been my dream car in the "affordable" and "reasonable" category for as long as I have had my license) I have no intentions of ever selling it.

Bottom line, the M3 has several things these "cheaper" and "faster" cars don't. Reputation. Reliability. History. Character. Prestige. Not to mention respect. You can't replace those things with any amount of HP.

So go buy a Hellcat because they have 707HP and cost less than a new M3. If all you are after is "OMGZORZ I ken go zo fassst in a strait line!!1" then that's your prerogative. For me? In the same price range, there is not one other car I would rather have than the M3, regardless if it has 700 hp or 7000 hp.

cars like camaros and mustangs, challengers, chargers etc .

putting aside performance are just to juvenile for me. I prefer a car with classy styling, yet still aggressive, luxury performance cars. some prestige to it also.

I really think a lot of people who buy these hellcat type cars simply cant see past power numbers.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

So anyone who drives any car in the snow or rain needs an AWD vehicle? Well I guess I'm good since I have a 4WD vehicle. But AWD GT-Rs and R8s have AWD, they do good in the snow right?

You could have 26 wheel drive and still get nowhere if you're running on summer tires. My buddy has an Evoms tuned 997 Turbo with snow tires and he drives in the snow without issue.

[Sebringjetta]

looks good but not for the price... rather stick to my m3...

[Candide13]

I seriously cross-shopped Chargers and Mustangs before settling for the M3. There were a number of pluses and minuses, but one thing that struck me very strongly was the unique after-after love & care that is available for an M3. That car is going to be desired and loved a long time after the next generation has come out! I still turn my head each time I see an E46 M3 on the street. Man, someone even made an ugly sweater with the M3 generations!!

Ford and Dodge on the other hand seem to actively insult former customers by changing designs and performance at a rapid clip, hence sending used car values for these cars into the cellar faster than you can say solid-rear axle. And that does not just hurt in your wallet, it also hurts in your heart.

And lets face it, buying a performance car, whatever that means, is at most 50% a rational decision, your heart has to be in it.

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

You could have 26 wheel drive and still get nowhere if you're running on summer tires. My buddy has an Evoms tuned 997 Turbo with snow tires and he drives in the snow without issue.

RWD/FWD does just fine for everyday snowy/icy roads commuting. AWD/4WD does a lot better than them for off-road purposes. A properly tire'd RWD/FWD car does completely fine on snowy/icy roads.

18 wheelers do fine right? Even though they use snow chains.

[KingOfJericho]

I compeltely agree. The best car I've ever driven in the snow was my tuned 135i with Dunlop Wintersport 3D snows. It was a beast!!

[Disturbed]

If you haven't been in a new 200 or Jeep GC, Durango they are amazing. The interior is leaps and bounds better than my E92. To lump all american cars into the econo parts is simply retarted. It's clear that you haven't been in an American cAr in the last 5-7 years.

The new Vette interior is on par with F8x.

[Sinful]

Originally Posted by ILSMKU

While these cars are awesome on looks and power (in most respect) the overall quality is sub par. Every single GM car/truck I have owned has had shitty interior quality. Button paint always comes off everything. And for the most part, almost all the interiors look cheap.

And all that delco electronics crap needs to go. The vetts tech stuff looks cool though. I admit that. But Im not sold on anything american yet.

Quality? They dont have bearings that are exploding engines. Thats quality...
I test drove the older CTSV and the Vette the interior is the same as the BMW....BMW interior is overated, its simple. Nice leather but in reality its a poor excuse now to argue quality with the american cars...especially when the biggest cost is the engine which is sub par in performance and in reliability/quality...

[PerfM5]

I studied transpiration design at Pasadena Art center and from a design perspective Americans are showing they can step up and care about the driver's experience. It's no longer the game of dropping in the largest truck/commercial motor into a coupe/sedan.
But all is not lost, a healthy battle between carmakers is what we all should support. If you think about it, the European's are almost all running with the turbo engines.
Pagani Huayra = Turbo
Ferrari California = Turbo
458's successor will be a turbo
M3/M4 = turbo
M5/M6 = Turbo
C63 = Turbo
E63 = Turbo
Audi = Turbo,
Even the base 911 is going to get a turbo soon.

I always root for the underdog and in this case the American's are putting on an admirable fight for our hard earned money. Let's hope this debate at least shows that the performance buyer are looking for visceral exhilaration.
Please keep sports cars mechanically analog!

[V8FunNaturally]

Originally Posted by SinfulM3

Quality? They dont have bearings that are exploding engines. Thats quality...
I test drove the older CTSV and the Vette the interior is the same as the BMW....BMW interior is overated, its simple. Nice leather but in reality its a poor excuse now to argue quality with the american cars...especially when the biggest cost is the engine which is sub par in performance and in reliability/quality...

"sub par in performance and quality" ? Lol. Very much the opposite. That's a fool's saying who bought his m3 used and compares it to cars designed 7 years later which btw most still can't match. The s65 was engine of the year for 4 years in a row during its production and is sufficiently exclusive by design that nothing that exist today competes with it.
You're like that american chef i talked about above, because you can source the right ingredients doesn't mean you can cook. There's much more to quality than the average american eye is used too and will notice.

[Ashley Schaeffer BMW]

Originally Posted by sunsweet

"sub par in performance and quality" ? Lol. Very much the opposite. That's a fool's saying who bought his m3 used and compares it to cars designed 7 years later which btw most still can't match. The s65 was engine of the year for 4 years in a row during its production and is sufficiently exclusive by design that nothing that exist today competes with it.
You're like that american chef i talked about above, because you can source the right ingredients doesn't mean you can cook. There's much more to quality than the average american eye is used too and will notice.

I bet you have an awesome fedora and sword collection.

[808@702]

My ex used to say that Caddy's are old men cars.

[FogCityM3]

I'm likely putting in my order once the GT350 is officially released and specs are all up to what I expect. And keeping the M3.

Originally Posted by mjposner

No one crosses shops a new M3/M4 with a Mustang GT350. Not in the same league or class, sorry. New buyers are looking at S5, E Class, maybe CTS-V.

This board (based on a poll) is 75% used buyers, and possibly would switch to a Ford, but these are not BMW customers.

We had a 2007 Caddy SRX for 6 years, one warranty issue, no interior problems, though they installed the wheels backwards at the factory (rears to front front to rears).

[Bimmed Out]

It's not you ... wait 'til the Carrera joins the M3 and is turbocharged. Coming sooner than some of you may realize.

Originally Posted by Ezio

no manual ... no thanks

FIFY!

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

Might have but I didn't say AWD. The Miata creator had a different mind set and didn't care for AWD.

No horse in this race honestly, but just to be consistent:

His point was that it's too much power for RWD to put to the ground. You then said the creator of the Miata felt vehicle control was tantamount as well, but then built a 150-something hp RWD car.

You lent credence to his point with your example. That's all I meant. I'm sure you realized. RWD is exceptional for a drivers car, but it does have limits in regards to driveability and control when it comes to high hp/tq figures. Unless I seriously misread something, no one was implying that RWD isn't good for driving and control.

Happy Christmas and holiday season everyone!

[Benstuck]

Originally Posted by PERFM3

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/12/22/2...-show/#image-1

I think the Ford Mustang GT350 was a big hit and then GM follows up with the ATS-V and now the CTS-V. Both are gorgeous, in my opinion, and really sticking it to the Germans... 600HP and 200MPH. Cant wait to test drive all 3, I hope they addressed the whole handling issues that plagued them in the past.

They may be more than capable performance vehicles, but look cheap/tacky, as in the hood scoops and spoiler ruin the car. Not to mention, the CTSV is huge!

[F1Venom]

Offer it in both RWD and AWD, everyone wins!

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by SinfulM3

Quality? They dont have bearings that are exploding engines. Thats quality...
I test drove the older CTSV and the Vette the interior is the same as the BMW....BMW interior is overated, its simple. Nice leather but in reality its a poor excuse now to argue quality with the american cars...especially when the biggest cost is the engine which is sub par in performance and in reliability/quality...

Didn't you sell your trouble-free M3 for a fear of bearings then have issues with the new Corvette you picked up? That's pretty ironic. All i see now is your chiming in on every thread about rod bearings even where it doesn't really make sense (like this thread).

You've sold the car, time to move on!

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by PERFM3

I studied transpiration design at Pasadena Art center and from a design perspective Americans are showing they can step up and care about the driver's experience. It's no longer the game of dropping in the largest truck/commercial motor into a coupe/sedan.
But all is not lost, a healthy battle between carmakers is what we all should support. If you think about it, the European's are almost all running with the turbo engines.
Pagani Huayra = Turbo
Ferrari California = Turbo
458's successor will be a turbo
M3/M4 = turbo
M5/M6 = Turbo
C63 = Turbo
E63 = Turbo
Audi = Turbo,
Even the base 911 is going to get a turbo soon.

I always root for the underdog and in this case the American's are putting on an admirable fight for our hard earned money. Let's hope this debate at least shows that the performance buyer are looking for visceral exhilaration.
Please keep sports cars mechanically analog!

not to mention all the cars which are already turbo. like the GTR.

I like when we have a choice to pick turbo or N/A. Kind of sad that everyone you buy now will have to be downsized with two turbos. unless you buy American.

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

No horse in this race honestly, but just to be consistent:

His point was that it's too much power for RWD to put to the ground. You then said the creator of the Miata felt vehicle control was tantamount as well, but then built a 150-something hp RWD car.

You lent credence to his point with your example. That's all I meant. I'm sure you realized. RWD is exceptional for a drivers car, but it does have limits in regards to driveability and control when it comes to high hp/tq figures. Unless I seriously misread something, no one was implying that RWD isn't good for driving and control.

Happy Christmas and holiday season everyone!

Oh I know. Thats why the Miata (and now FRS/BRZ) is such a awesome track car since its small, light and handles "likes it on rails" (lol). But the AWD must have because its over 600 hp didn't come to mind when I posted that. A properly setup on ANY vehicle with ANY drive train will do completely fine. How many 1000+ hp super cars are out there? Uh-huh....F1s handle fine with their power setup, as do all the other classes. Suspension and tires in tune with the drive train. But those are dedicated track cars. Now an VII EVO handles awesome but thats because its light and the suspension is out standing! But its not a "true" AWD car, since its more FWD bias than anything.

Now, having a AWD 700+ hp car is awesome but its NOT a necessity for everyday use. People who blow this kind of money out their ass don't care much about driving it when the weather is bad, thats why we have beaters to do that job. Would I want to drive my Agera R out in the snow? Maybe a couple times to say I tried it but not everyday. Same with this V, I'd try to DD it until snow falls then swap to my 4WD truck but a little rain? Please.....come to south GA and see the rain I dealt with growing up there on the back roads.

Merry Christmas to everyone as well! Safe travels if you're going anywhere.

[F1Venom]

Also, lol at anyone that says these rwd cars are fine in the snow with snow tires. Have you ever driven anything that's above 400 hp in the snow and it's RWD? First of all, the tires on performance cars are all wide as hell in the rear and even the snows are wide. That means a whole lot less traction than your average Honda or 135i. There's also the issue of all that hp and torque being able to properly function in the snow. Even with snow tires, that's a whole ton of power that needs to be able to be put down.

I've driven a Mercedes CLS63 AMG in the snow with snow tires, traction just wasn't there and forget about going up a hill on your first try.

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by SinfulM3

Quality? They dont have bearings that are exploding engines. Thats quality...
I test drove the older CTSV and the Vette the interior is the same as the BMW....BMW interior is overated, its simple. Nice leather but in reality its a poor excuse now to argue quality with the american cars...especially when the biggest cost is the engine which is sub par in performance and in reliability/quality...

Didn't you trade your M3 in for a Corvette that is now giving you all sorts of problems?