The EPA Is Targeting Aftermarket Car Modifications

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

What makes you think I'm indoctrinated?

It's amazing how a group of people resort to conspiracies (an argument based on faith) because they lack the ability to offer a valid counter point using reason, logic, and facts.

Is that why you’re here frothing at the mouth? Are all conspiracies false?

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Is that why you’re here frothing at the mouth? Are all conspiracies false?

Lol...not even close to frothing. Just calling bullshit .

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

You actually think reason, logic or facts have driven any auto emissions regulation for the last 20 years?!? The stupendous cost to consumers in added vehicle cost and maintenance chasing a fraction of a percent from already achieved reductions in emissions! The total upheaval in vehicle manufacture and power generation chasing an unachievable goal and we're paying for it! Wake up!

Prove otherwise.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Sad part is, to many like you, which is why your ability to buy the new car you want, instead of mandated, will disappear.

It's not worth engaging with someone like him. Everything is a conspiracy, and he's a real free thinker by just accepting what he's told.

Look how angry he is that someone would dare question the government and the "science"

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Sad part is, to many like you, which is why your ability to buy the new car you want, instead of mandated, will disappear.

You haven't a clue because you're too lazy to actually investigate it. You're just blathering off emotion.

This is the problem. Stop being emotional.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

It's not worth engaging with someone like him. Everything is a conspiracy, and he's a real free thinker by just accepting what he's told.

Look how angry he is that someone would dare question the government and the "science"

Who says I'm accepting what I'm told and who says I'm angry ? You just keep on wallowing in a belief system based on feelings.

Try using you critical thinking skills for once. Perhaps then you'll manage to provide a relevant point and actually change something.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Everything is a conspiracy...

You believe everything is a conspiracy?

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

You believe everything is a conspiracy?

I was implying that F32fleet believed everything he didn't agree with was a right wing conspiracy.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

LOL, good luck.

I'll leave you with this,

"It only stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there's service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master."

- A. Rand

[lens]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I don't know where you guys come up with this stuff. The EPA headcount over the last 10 years has been generally stagnant, and/or shrinking depending on the year. Trump gutted it by essentially handcuffing them, that too caused many to voluntarily leave. Most EPA employees are not tree huggers and are down to earth and realists. I deal with them daily and I have good friends that work there, many of which are car enthusiasts, SCCA racers, etc.

EPA isn't out take away your car mods. They have been clued into a big industry where tuners, aftermarket companies, and shops are modifying road cars to run without emissions controls and pass emissions by turning off sensors and such. They are trying to send a message to the industry as a whole. I would be very nervous if I was a tuner though, especially the guys at BM3 and MHD. They think they're protected by being overseas, but I'm certain EPA will be going after them and any others that offer defeat software.

MHD would get fucked as they are based in Europe, and EU is currently cracking down hard on emissions (even going to the point of checking people's car for map switching)

BM3 is safe as they are in Toronto, Canada, and there is currently no law against emissions as long as they keep the "off-road use only" warning. Plus we pay a carbon tax here, so why not use what you pay for.

In NS, we have a safety inspection every 2 years, there's no emission testing but they do check if you have a catalytic converter.
I have a shop that passes my car regardless of catless as they can just claim "he put it on after the check"

They used to have emissions testing in Ontario, but they got rid of that as the premier said "this is a money grab"

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Prove otherwise.

You cannot honestly look back at everything the EPA has done to the automotive and performance industry and think that these are logical and effective ways to reduce emissions. I am speaking from experience meeting and working with people in this industry. I mean where do you think all the money in emissions fines is going? You really think that any amount of cash collected by bureaucratic agencies is going actually to reduce CO2 emissions? Especially when countries like China are literally building a new coal fired plant every week......

Using government to combat the "climate crisis" is only going to reduce freedoms and will be used as a method of control, while destroying economies. Innovation is the best way to reduce emissions, period.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by chetrickerman

You cannot honestly look back at everything the EPA has done to the automotive and performance industry and think that these are logical and effective ways to reduce emissions. I am speaking from experience meeting and working with people in this industry. I mean where do you think all the money in emissions fines is going? You really think that any amount of cash collected by bureaucratic agencies is going actually to reduce CO2 emissions? Especially when countries like China are literally building a new coal fired plant every week......

Using government to combat the "climate crisis" is only going to reduce freedoms and will be used as a method of control, while destroying economies. Innovation is the best way to reduce emissions, period.

You rights as an individual end where the rights of another individual begins. This is a basis for property rights. It's why I can't dump my sewage in your front yard. It's why someone can not "roll coal" on others.

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

You rights as an individual end where the rights of another individual begins. This is a basis for property rights. It's why I can't dump my sewage in your front yard. It's why someone can not "roll coal" on others.

You read my post and this is what you came up with as a reply? Interesting......

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

You rights as an individual end where the rights of another individual begins. This is a basis for property rights. It's why I can't dump my sewage in your front yard. It's why someone can not "roll coal" on others.

So the guy with the private jet can’t pollute the air more than the guy with the Prius? The guy with the Prius probably pays a greater percentage of his income in taxes, but the guy with the private jet has a better lobbyist.

[Leucosticte]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

You rights as an individual end where the rights of another individual begins. This is a basis for property rights. It's why I can't dump my sewage in your front yard. It's why someone can not "roll coal" on others.

How is this relevant to what he said? You're immediately jumping to the extreme of rolling coal lol.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

So the guy with the private jet can’t pollute the air more than the guy with the Prius? The guy with the Prius probably pays a greater percentage of his income in taxes, but the guy with the private jet has a better lobbyist.

Bingo!

"All animals are equal. But some animals are more equal than others."

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

He's drunk the Green Kool-Aid, its why we're in the mess we are in, Green indoctrination. He can pretend to be virtuous with zero critical thinking.

If you're going to fight against populism from either side you must be able to defend property rights using reason and facts rather than faith.

Stop relying on faith. Do better.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Leucosticte

How is this relevant to what he said? You're immediately jumping to the extreme of rolling coal lol.

His comment about emissions over the last 20 yrs. Freedom aka rights. It's clear he does not have a grasp of property rights.

The rest of his comment is best describe me as a non-sequtur

[Car-Addicted]

Green is the new Red.
The EPA has performed some admirable work in the past but the current trend in using unaccountable and unelected bureaucrats to create laws that would never get through the peoples houses is going to have a high cost and little to no change in air quality.
The chance that the EPA is going to go after individual car owners is a reach but they have going after the low hanging fruit of diesel tuning devices and aftermarket chip companies and you can bet the next effort will be to force manufacturers to be responsible for the retention of emission controls on the cars we drive. If a software up date or trip to the service department notices a change in coding it will overwrite then back to factory specifications. I think we have seen some of this now on features like ASS (Auto Start Stop). One needs to understand the whole story on the Volkswagen's diesel scandal to understand the EPA capabilities and intent.
At the end of the day remember the #1 consumer of fossil fuel are cargo ships with containers from china and middle east.