Apple vs. the FBI

[QUiKSR20]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

10 million times no I don't agree with apple. What's wrong with you people?

This is a pure marketing and money play for Apple. And it is super dangerous.

The government wants them to unlock the phone, not get the program to unlock the phone.

A judge said to unlock it

The government issueshould search warrants. This includes phones. This was done.

This particular phone is a known dead terrorists phone who took extra care to secure it.

This particular phone was owned by someone who worked for the terrorist and the owner gave permission to have it unlocked.

To answer where would it stop, Apple has unlocked close to 100 phones in the past for law enforcement. This isn't something new. It's high profile. So it makes news. This is why they said no for this particular phone. So it would be in the news so they can profit from it by protecting terrorists.

The guy who sold him the guns said he had other terrorist buddies in the area who helped the terrorist.

The FBI needs Apple to only make a program that will allow unlimited password guesses. Without this software the phone will destroy all data after 10 guesses. Once the phone is opened they can destroy the code and software so it is used only once. This is what they said no too.

By doing this, the government won't get any software or way to open any other phones. They asked apple to open it, then remove the software so they just get the data.

The left and apple and left leaning reporters have 100% been lying by implying this will give the government access to any other phone.

Apple is 100% only protecting existing terrorists in the US as a way to promote their phones for profit. Pure and simple.

I'm waiting for one of two things to happen. CEO in jail or terrorists kill more peopl . Hope the first happens before the second does.

We got another real smart guy here Your entitled to your opinion but please be accurate with whats going on. Apple has unlocked older phones on lesser secure versions of IOS ( 5-7 ). Thats like saying " You unlocked Windows xp so why cant you unlock Windows 10 for us?" With technology and software they constantly fix bugs, find security holes and patch them and tighten up each version. If this is just a marketing ploy by Apple ( mind you that just sounds dumb ), Why is Google / Facebook / Twitter / Mozilla / Microsoft all on Apples side? Some of these companys are direct competitors to Apple, Why aren't they poking fun at Apple instead of joining them in court to battle?

Google sides with Apple -
http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/17/11...ple-encryption

Microsoft sides with Apple -
http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/25/11...se/in/10800347

Facebook & Twitter sides with Apple -
http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/18/11...witter-support

Mozilla aka Firefox sides with Apple -
http://www.npr.org/2016/02/19/467318...ral-government

Your not seeing the big picture here, Its pretty clear this is not just about Apple.. You will be making the device less secure for the average person while the criminals will
just find other forms of encryption to utilize, Apple nor the USA owns encryption.

[Mr Tonka]

Why FBI/NSA/CIA etc.... wants a back door.....


http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1279619

Faster supercomputer (as per Wikipedia): 10.51 Pentaflops = 10.51 x 1015 Flops [Flops = Floating point operations per second]

No. of Flops required per combination check: 1000 (very optimistic but just assume for now)

No. of combination checks per second = (10.51 x 1015) / 1000 = 10.51 x 1012

No. of seconds in one Year = 365 x 24 x 60 x 60 = 31536000

No. of Years to crack AES with 128-bit Key = (3.4 x 1038) / [(10.51 x 1012) x 31536000]
= (0.323 x 1026)/31536000
= 1.02 x 1018
= 1 billion billion years

In other words......

The following snippet is a snapshot of one the technical papers from Seagate titled "128-bit versus 256-bit AES encryption" to explain why 128-bit AES is sufficient to meet future needs.

If you assume:
Every person on the planet owns 10 computers.
There are 7 billion people on the planet.
Each of these computers can test 1 billion key combinations per second.
On average, you can crack the key after testing 50% of the possibilities.

Then the earth's population can crack one encryption key in 77,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years!

Why Apple can't "just do it for this phone".....

A white paper from Apple dated earlier this year about its security features explained that the device’s unique ID (UID) and a device group ID (GID) are AES 256-bit keys fused into the application processor during manufacturing. “Burning these keys into the silicon prevents them from being tampered with or bypassed, and guarantees that they can be accessed only by the AES engine.”

[larryn]

The shooter was not the owner of the phone. San Bernadino County is, and they want to get the information off of their phone. This is easy. If Apple can't do that, they are 100% in the wrong in their campaign to smear the US government and need to do he right thing, regardless of technical issues.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by QUiKSR20

We got another real smart guy here Your entitled to your opinion but please be accurate with whats going on. Apple has unlocked older phones on lesser secure versions of IOS ( 5-7 ). Thats like saying " You unlocked Windows xp so why cant you unlock Windows 10 for us?" With technology and software they constantly fix bugs, find security holes and patch them and tighten up each version. If this is just a marketing ploy by Apple ( mind you that just sounds dumb ), Why is Google / Facebook / Twitter / Mozilla / Microsoft all on Apples side? Some of these companys are direct competitors to Apple, Why aren't they poking fun at Apple instead of joining them in court to battle?

Google sides with Apple -
http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/17/11...ple-encryption

Microsoft sides with Apple -
http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/25/11...se/in/10800347

Facebook & Twitter sides with Apple -
http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/18/11...witter-support

Mozilla aka Firefox sides with Apple -
http://www.npr.org/2016/02/19/467318...ral-government

Your not seeing the big picture here, Its pretty clear this is not just about Apple.. You will be making the device less secure for the average person while the criminals will
just find other forms of encryption to utilize, Apple nor the USA owns encryption.

Um, I would expect in circumstances like this that the CEO get jailed for obstruction of justice, then the next, then the next, till they comply, for any version of any electronic device, running on any operating system, now or in the future, period. Every company you cited is a notorious hugely liberal leaning west coast tech company, who I loathe dealing with and do only out of necessity. I give every CEO of every one zero respect for their opinions.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Why FBI/NSA/CIA etc.... wants a back door.....


http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1279619





In other words......




Why Apple can't "just do it for this phone".....

Um

1.FBI isn't asking for a back door. Never did. Read my post.
2. Apple would need to develop the program that could be used on any phone. Yes. But it also could and would be installed on only this phone. And once unlocked the program would be removed and destroyed.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Um

1.FBI isn't asking for a back door. Never did. Read my post.
2. Apple would need to develop the program that could be used on any phone. Yes. But it also could and would be installed on only this phone. And once unlocked the program would be removed and destroyed.

You should consult for large tech companies. They have no idea how simple it is.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

You should consult for large tech companies. They have no idea how simple it is.

I don't think it's simple. I think it's a court order that will save lives and foil terrorists that they are obstructing. Who cares how hard it is. I think also they can bill the government for the man hours if necessary. I also think there should be zero private sector electronics that do not have a backdoor that can't be broken by the government. And that the government can't search a us citizens device without a court order just like they can't search your house already. Any anyone who disagrees with this basic concept is beyond absurd and protecting nothing but crime and terrorism.

[QUiKSR20]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Um

1.FBI isn't asking for a back door. Never did. Read my post.
2. Apple would need to develop the program that could be used on any phone. Yes. But it also could and would be installed on only this phone. And once unlocked the program would be removed and destroyed.

And if and should it leak out? History has shown things leak out, Hell the FBI has been hacked a ton of times.. Once leaked the software that is locked to one phone can be reverse engineered ( not hard ) and then programmed to work with any phone. This , even if done would only work on the older phones. The shooters phone was an iPhone 5c with no "Secure Enclave" http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/26/how...-enclave-work/

Your just repeating what your reading in the mainstream news and hearing the FBI say but unfortunately thats not how software and technology works. This is the equivalent to asking a safe company who sells secure safes to make a master key for us that we will only use one time.

There is far more bad that can happen than good, This is one case and they dont even know if the phone has anything on it.. They destroyed their personal phones this is the work phone. You would want your phone that carries so much personal info such as location / credit card / medical data etc easily hacked?

Read an accurate article like this - http://www.wired.com/2016/02/apple-f...vacy-security/

You would feel safe using your iPhone or Android phone knowing theres a backdoor? dont kid yourself about the 1 phone, People have offered to open said phone such as hacker / security albeit crazy professionals like John McAfee.... They want this custom software.

Watch the video not the crap we see on CNN / Foxnews

Trying to keep this a healthy conversation, Just trying to make sure you really know whats going on here and how this stuff works in the software industry.
I work for a huge software company and many have no idea about how much bad can come from this for the regular people..

Even an ex CIA / NSA director is siding with Apple - http://theweek.com/speedreads/606641...cryption-fight

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

I don't think it's simple. I think it's a court order that will save lives and foil terrorists that they are obstructing. Who cares how hard it is. I think also they can bill the government for the man hours if necessary. I also think there should be zero private sector electronics that do not have a backdoor that can't be broken by the government. And that the government can't search a us citizens device without a court order just like they can't search your house already. Any anyone who disagrees with this basic concept is beyond absurd and protecting nothing but crime and terrorism.

....Yes, only reasonable people state their option as fact and preemptively denounces anyone who disagrees with their opinion.

"Because terrorism", isn't a blank check to throw away freedoms and privacy.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by QUiKSR20

And if and should it leak out? History has shown things leak out, Hell the FBI has been hacked a ton of times.. Once leaked the software that is locked to one phone can be reverse engineered ( not hard ) and then programmed to work with any phone. This , even if done would only work on the older phones. The shooters phone was an iPhone 5c with no "Secure Enclave" http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/26/how...-enclave-work/

Your just repeating what your reading in the mainstream news and hearing the FBI say but unfortunately thats not how software and technology works. This is the equivalent to asking a safe company who sells secure safes to make a master key for us that we will only use one time.

There is far more bad that can happen than good, This is one case and they dont even know if the phone has anything on it.. They destroyed their personal phones this is the work phone. You would want your phone that carries so much personal info such as location / credit card / medical data etc easily hacked?

Read an accurate article like this - http://www.wired.com/2016/02/apple-f...vacy-security/

You would feel safe using your iPhone or Android phone knowing theres a backdoor? dont kid yourself about the 1 phone, People have offered to open said phone such as hacker / security albeit crazy professionals like John McAfee.... They want this custom software.

Trying to keep this a healthy conversation, Just trying to make sure you really know whats going on here and how this stuff works in the software industry.
I work for a huge software company and many have no idea about how much bad can come from this for the regular people..

^^This.

It's not like someone needing to access your home and you just give them the alarm code so they can have access and once they leave, you change the alarm code.

It's closer to someone forcing you to post your alarm code, home address, work and vacation schedule for the foreseeable future to the internet, more specifically, a B&E forum. All without having means or a plan, for the foreseeable future, to change the alarm code again to secure your home.

[QUiKSR20]

Crappy video, But you get the point.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

^^This.

It's not like someone needing to access your home and you just give them the alarm code so they can have access and once they leave, you change the alarm code.

It's closer to someone forcing you to post your alarm code, home address, work and vacation schedule for the foreseeable future to the internet, more specifically, a B&E forum. All without having means or a plan, for the foreseeable future, to change the alarm code again to secure your home.

No codes, software, etc is leaving apple. They're worried about leaking it give only one guy access to it. Then have it destroyed. They aren't giving the program to law enforcement. Personally I think a law should be made requiring all electronic devices have a back door. Unless you'reOK with what happened in San Bernardino happening on a regular basis so you can protect your contacts file fromantic a court order.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by QUiKSR20

Crappy video, But you get the point.

Anything involving NBC is 90% slant/lie, the other 10% lie/slant. You get the idea.

[QUiKSR20]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Anything involving NBC is 90% slant/lie, the other 10% lie/slant. You get the idea.

Forget what NBC is asking / Saying what is McAfee saying? Watch the other video from RTNEWS, Regardless... The incident is terrible I think we are all in agreeance there but crippling a US companys encryption is not the answer when anyone else can encrypt. We would just be weaking the USA and our companys and our privacy.. I dont see how this is a good idea when the rest of the world and even other USA software companys can write their own encryption software.

[eluded]

do you like any west coast companies? I know things on the west coast are notoriously weird, like women can drive, vote and even own land. its crazy town!!!!

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Every company you cited is a notorious hugely liberal leaning west coast tech company, who I loathe dealing with and do only out of necessity. I give every CEO of every one zero respect for their opinions.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

No codes, software, etc is leaving apple. They're worried about leaking it give only one guy access to it. Then have it destroyed. They aren't giving the program to law enforcement. Personally I think a law should be made requiring all electronic devices have a back door. Unless you'reOK with what happened in San Bernardino happening on a regular basis so you can protect your contacts file fromantic a court order.

An all out ban on guns is sure to save at least 30 lives a year. You're all for that too, right?

[jtodd_fl]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

No codes, software, etc is leaving apple. They're worried about leaking it give only one guy access to it. Then have it destroyed. They aren't giving the program to law enforcement. Personally I think a law should be made requiring all electronic devices have a back door. Unless you'reOK with what happened in San Bernardino happening on a regular basis so you can protect your contacts file fromantic a court order.

I also think master keys to everyone's homes should be available to the government. And access to read all emails in real time. I mean, c'mon, if you're not doing anything wrong you got nothing to hide. Let's go full big brother up in this bitch! What could go wrong. The government would never abuse this sort of power. Right?

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by jtodd_fl

I also think master keys to everyone's homes should be available to the government. And access to read all emails in real time. I mean, c'mon, if you're not doing anything wrong you got nothing to hide. Let's go full big brother up in this bitch! What could go wrong. The government would never abuse this sort of power. Right?

Master keys to everyone's house aren't necessary. If they have a search warrant and you don't open the door, the police will break the door down.

[jtodd_fl]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Master keys to everyone's house aren't necessary. If they have a search warrant and you don't open the door, the police will break the door down.

Which is highly recognizable. Secretly doing shit behind your back is not.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Supermoon

Y
Neither FBI nor Apple can legitimately break the encryption of an iPhone running iOS 8 or newer while keeping it a legal/admissible evidence.

Interesting, if you don't mind me asking, why is that?

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

I'm not making a false claim. I claimed law enforcement asked apple to open almost 100 phones before and they did. I never claimed those were this operating system. And it is a single phone bone. This one. Apple will have the code to unlock the phones. Not the FBI. And if apple wants, they can destroy the code after so it is only one phone.

You didn't make a false claim but misrepresented a factual claim.

Also, do you really think that the government will just have them delete it and have it all be done with after this one phone? If Apple goes through with this court order it'll set a precedent.

A potential grey area which isn't mentioned a lot, the phone didn't even belong to him. It was a company phone, a phone where local police believes likely has nothing useful or of value to law enforcement on it.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

No codes, software, etc is leaving apple. They're worried about leaking it give only one guy access to it. Then have it destroyed. They aren't giving the program to law enforcement. Personally I think a law should be made requiring all electronic devices have a back door. Unless you'reOK with what happened in San Bernardino happening on a regular basis so you can protect your contacts file fromantic a court order.

He'd of been able to do what he did without a phone at all you know?

Local law enforcement believes that there's likely nothing of value on that phone anyway.

In a twist of irony, hardline conservatives hate big government (with good reason) and want it reduced...unless someone tosses in the word "terrorism" then all of a sudden, government can't be big enough.