F1 2023: Japanese GP - Suzuka (Sep 24)

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I don't get it. To me it seems that Hamilton fans (here at least, but I also see it on other platforms) can only cheer for Hamilton by means of snarling at Verstappen.
Apparently they just can't be happy for someone else.

Maybe they take their example from Toto Wolff? He's pretty much the only team CEO that feels he has to say something negative when RB or Max achieves something.
All other team principles are happy for a team or driver if he/it achieves someting special (or just don't say anything), but there's always a reaction from team MERC when it concearns RB.

I think the problem with them is that they realize Max has real talent whereas Ham has talent but not nearly to the level Max does. The MB car from those years with the freeze on engine regs made anyone who jumped in it look like superman. I mean Ros won a WDC with that car and he simply was not all that good IMO.
On the other hand, Max's ability to drive a car set up with a very pointy front that maybe only a few individuals on the grid or in F1 history could (Clark, Sch, Lec), he can drive a car that also isn't set to his liking (earl 2022 when car had understeer he was still winning easily), and he can drive LMP cars or sport cars in iracing and will eventually do that in Le Mans, WEC and likely Indy. He is a talent the world has never seen in his ability.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Max has to be the most overrated driver in all of F1 history - bar none. He's talented, but after getting beat out by Danny R, I knew he was just a slightly above average driver with a great car.

Daniel himself was also slightly above average, but clearly a step down from the upper echelon of people like Hamilton, Vettel, etc.

Wake me up when Redbull's car comes down to mean and Max goes back to being a irrelevent driver with a bad attitude.

Then in this case, it's clear that Ham is not even an average driver but benefited from a car that was so fast anyone below avg driver could win in it (i.e. Ros) and a field that lacked any competition from a car standpoint and driver until Max came in and got up to speed. Other than Alo, Ham's teammates were never very good and he was never able to put much distance between them which tells me he himself simply didnt have the talent to outdrive below average driver's in the same car and actually lost to Ros which is flat out embarassing.
Now, the field is the closest it's ever been where a small mistake could mean the race (ask Ham and Rus as they seem to crack under pressure) and Max has a solid all around good car but nothing dominant - driver ability means much more now. That is where Max not only dusts his teammate but the entire field.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Last weekend in Singapore , LEW ran himself out of sight !
He ran so wide off track , that even the marshals didn't notice

The guy simply can ONLY win when everything is stacked in his favor. He has the second best car in F1 and can't win at all and barely gets podiums - he is simply the most overrated person in any sport in the history of sports - not just F1.

Max was winning and right up there when his car was the 4th or 5th fastest. Now, in a solid car (not something anyone can just drive and win in) his ability is the step change for why he is winning - and he has not had it easy given the crazy weather lately in the EU circuits. No one else on the grid could have done that. Even in history, maybe only Sch, Sen, or Clark could have managed anything close to what he did. Surely no driver on the grid now could.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Then in this case, it's clear that Ham is not even an average driver but benefited from a car that was so fast anyone below avg driver could win in it (i.e. Ros) and a field that lacked any competition from a car standpoint and driver until Max came in and got up to speed.

Alonso, Rosberg, and Button were all great drivers in their own right and all won a Championship lol. Ham beat the previous WCD in his rookie year - won it all in year two.

Max took 7 years, a slower teammate, a faster car AND favorable rules to do the same.

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Other than Alo, Ham's teammates were never very good and he was never able to put much distance between them which tells me he himself simply didnt have the talent to outdrive below average driver's in the same car and actually lost to Ros which is flat out embarassing.

Again, Lewis beat Alonso in his rookie year, he beat Button, he beat ROS - he beat them all, and all of those people have won a WDC. Max never beat a teammate of that caliber - EVER.

And Lewis "losing" to Ros (which, by the way so did Trash Verstappen) was 100% reliability issues. Lewis had at least 3 DNF due to transmission/car issues. Outside of that, he was more capable - especially considering he continued to win after that year

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Now, the field is the closest it's ever been where a small mistake could mean the race (ask Ham and Rus as they seem to crack under pressure) and Max has a solid all around good car but nothing dominant - driver ability means much more now. That is where Max not only dusts his teammate but the entire field.

The field isn't close at all - RB was winning by 10+ seconds a race with 1-2 Finishes, and Perez, who is average at best was flying by the rest of the field.

Max fans are strange. If that goofy looking white nationalist is your god, man you're going to have a bad time soon.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

I think the problem with them is that they realize Max has real talent whereas Ham has talent but not nearly to the level Max does. The MB car from those years with the freeze on engine regs made anyone who jumped in it look like superman. I mean Ros won a WDC with that car and he simply was not all that good IMO.
On the other hand, Max's ability to drive a car set up with a very pointy front that maybe only a few individuals on the grid or in F1 history could (Clark, Sch, Lec), he can drive a car that also isn't set to his liking (earl 2022 when car had understeer he was still winning easily), and he can drive LMP cars or sport cars in iracing and will eventually do that in Le Mans, WEC and likely Indy. He is a talent the world has never een in his ability.

"Real talent" that wins after 7 years of seeing the greatest driver in all of history's tail lights and then poaching his talent pool.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Blindside_137

I still think merc had the better car in 2021. Lewis lost the championship in Baku.

They did have the better car. And they also had Toto instructing them to drive dirty to take Max out in hopes of winning.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

"Real talent" that wins after 7 years of seeing the greatest driver in all of history's tail lights and then poaching his talent pool.

Sch has been gone for a long time. Max is even better than he was.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

"Real talent" that wins after 7 years of seeing the greatest driver in all of history's tail lights and then poaching his talent pool.

LOL - Max didnt go into a car that won WDC right before he got there. Additionally, Max wasnt involved in crashgate, or spygate (biggest cheating scandal in F1) to help him win. He also didnt have a team that used their influence to sign off on an engine they had already developed for years and then have development frozen so no one could catch up. Why did Ham have a no Max clause? Because he was afraid, knowing Max in a decent car was a bigger hammer.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Sch has been gone for a long time. Max is even better than he was.

The guy with less wins, is the better driver? Ok

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

LOL - Max didnt go into a car that won WDC right before he got there. Additionally, Max wasnt involved in crashgate, or spygate (biggest cheating scandal in F1) to help him win. He also didnt have a team that used their influence to sign off on an engine they had already developed for years and then have development frozen so no one could catch up. Why did Ham have a no Max clause? Because he was afraid, knowing Max in a decent car was a bigger hammer.

Max's car was competitive, he wasn't. Ric was still near the top in the same car - sounds like excuses.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by lens

In every season Max has been in F1, he has won at least 1 race in every season.


Lewis has not won a race since 2021.

How does a 7 time world champion not win a single race for 2 years? Almost three?

That proved that during his time winning titles, it's always the car as Mercedes had a head start during the hybrid era.

Max has won a race with vastly worst and unreliable cars until 2021 where the RB was even until mid season and Mercedes out developed them again.

Max being "gifted" the win in Abu Dhabi was direct karma from the Silverstone crash.

Hes also won 10 races in a row, 15 in a row for RB and even with the vastly superior machinery that Mercedes has made, they couldn't even win that many

Mate . You nailed it completely !!!

#UnLeashTheLion

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

The guy simply can ONLY win when everything is stacked in his favor. He has the second best car in F1 and can't win at all and barely gets podiums - he is simply the most overrated person in any sport in the history of sports - not just F1.

Max was winning and right up there when his car was the 4th or 5th fastest. Now, in a solid car (not something anyone can just drive and win in) his ability is the step change for why he is winning - and he has not had it easy given the crazy weather lately in the EU circuits. No one else on the grid could have done that. Even in history, maybe only Sch, Sen, or Clark could have managed anything close to what he did. Surely no driver on the grid now could.

Spot on mate !

[Mr Pete]

Originally Posted by lens

In every season Max has been in F1, he has won at least 1 race in every season.


Lewis has not won a race since 2021.

How does a 7 time world champion not win a single race for 2 years? Almost three?

That proved that during his time winning titles, it's always the car as Mercedes had a head start during the hybrid era.

Max has won a race with vastly worst and unreliable cars until 2021 where the RB was even until mid season and Mercedes out developed them again.

Max being "gifted" the win in Abu Dhabi was direct karma from the Silverstone crash.

Hes also won 10 races in a row, 15 in a row for RB and even with the vastly superior machinery that Mercedes has made, they couldn't even win that many

At one point this season, there was a stat I heard live during a F1 broadcast. Lewis, 103 poles, 103 wins. Based on this, you can assume Lewis needs a super competitive car to be in front to win. He’s still a great driver who will go down as one of the best, but as we can see, numbers don’t lie. On the contrary, as we’ve seen the past few season, Max just needs a car and he’ll take care of the rest.

We’re watching greatness, let’s sit back and appreciate what this young man is achieving. Competitors like Max come around every once in awhile like we see in a lot of different sports. Amazing the hate we see, when Tiger was dominating, when Kobe (RIP…sigh….) and Michael were dominating. Even Brady lol (I still think he’s a system qb but he’s earned the right to be the best of all time based on how successful he’s been with 2 different teams).

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

As the session closes Gasly's Alpine crashes after locking up and disfigures the front of the car with the l/f wheel pulled out at a 45 degree angle.

MAX and Checo got a new HONDA PU !
MAX is eager to fight again .The sweet taste of revenge ...

[Artemis]

All the bickering is to no avail. The past is the past, this is now.

We got the benefit that in a decade or so, we can all say that we have witnessed the rivalry on tracks between Hamilton and Verstappen.

Some food for thought. Hamilton has indisputably a monumental race career featuring countless trophies, titles and records. One of the greatest F1 drivers ever. However, despite all that greatness, excellence and vast experience, there happens to be a dude 12 years his junior who keeps stopping him in his tracks to win even 1 single race or Sprint ever since passing the chequered flag during the 2021 Saudi Arabia F1 race (Dec 5, 2021). It's that same rascal, time and time again.

Now, to be capable to stop a force of nature, Hamilton the man himself, takes either extreme luck or super talent, or both.

Hamilton is ultra in F1. But ever since the 2021 Abu Dhabi F1 race (Dec 12, 2021), Verstappen consistently shows being nec plus ultra in F1. And that could be Verstappen's real claim to fame in the future, regardless of all trophies, titles and records that he will have collected by then: "I raced against Hamilton - The Man, The Legend - and ended his P1 era".

Brief review: "F1 2021: An Unforgettable Season" (shown during the F1 2021 awards ceremony) (08:06):

Extended review: "The Eight And One - Verstappen vs Hamilton F1 2021 Season Review" (1:23:47):

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Kelly in NYC
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/24013...-kelly-piquet/

Kelly Piquet the sexy Brazilian Tigress . MAX is very lucky man !

[Mr Pete]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Kelly Piquet the sexy Brazilian Tigress . MAX is very lucky man !

She’s the lucky one. He’s got all the money. Huge step up from Kyvat haha

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

MAX and Checo got a new HONDA PU !
MAX is eager to fight again .The sweet taste of revenge ...

Checo too, has Max power to further terrorise the field with that new PU and no grid penalty.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Kelly Piquet the sexy Brazilian Tigress . MAX is very lucky man !

You could say he has it all

[Mr Pete]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

The guy with less wins, is the better driver? Ok

Hence my comment about you not knowing much about racing, let alone Motorsports or any skill based sport. Pound for pound, skill for skill, Max will go down as one of the greatest ever. His ability to navigate a rocket around a track, how he sees the track, the lines he takes (nobody goes at the limit and beyond like Max does without crashing), his ability to drive in the rain, the way he manages a race, he’s one of the best. If he stopped racing in F1 after this season, I would still say he’s top 5 in history.

It’s not about wins, championships. It’s about SKILL. Max will go down as one of the best racers. Ask any past or current professional driver in any of the major Motorsports disciplines, majority will all agree.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Blindside_137

I still think merc had the better car in 2021. Lewis lost the championship in Baku.

Yes Baku and Hungary (where hammy was alone on the starting grid because everyone came in for slicks resulting him not winning despite all his direct competitors were out of the race or had immense damage).

2 stupid faults that could easily have been avoided.
Max was gifted the WDC that year all right, but not by the FIA, but by those stupid faults of team MERC

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Mr Pete

She’s the lucky one. He’s got all the money. Huge step up from Kyvat haha

True . But Kelly was not poor . And her dad Nelson Piquet is a triple F1 World Champion .

Kelly is very well payed with her model job in Milan, New York, Paris, ect...
I'm pretty sure , she has the sexy looks to perform well .

Mate . You know what I mean ...

[lens]

Originally Posted by Artemis

All the bickering is to no avail. The past is the past, this is now.

We got the benefit that in a decade or so, we can all say that we have witnessed the rivalry on tracks between Hamilton and Verstappen.

Some food for thought. Hamilton has indisputably a monumental race career featuring countless trophies, titles and records. One of the greatest F1 drivers ever. However, despite all that greatness, excellence and vast experience, there happens to be a dude 12 years his junior who keeps stopping him in his tracks to win even 1 single race or Sprint ever since passing the chequered flag during the 2021 Saudi Arabia F1 race (Dec 5, 2021). It's that same rascal, time and time again.

Now, to be capable to stop a force of nature, Hamilton the man himself, takes either extreme luck or super talent, or both.

Hamilton is ultra in F1. But ever since the 2021 Abu Dhabi F1 race (Dec 12, 2021), Verstappen consistently shows being nec plus ultra in F1. And that could be Verstappen's real claim to fame in the future, regardless of all trophies, titles and records that he will have collected by then: "I raced against Hamilton - The Man, The Legend - and ended his P1 era".

Brief review: "F1 2021: An Unforgettable Season" (shown during the F1 2021 awards ceremony) (08:06):

Extended review: "The Eight And One - Verstappen vs Hamilton F1 2021 Season Review" (1:23:47):

If people want to blame who made Max how he is now, it's Mercedes and Hamilton.

2021 was one of the most difficult and hardcore championship battle ever, where one mistake could cost you the championship, it made Max come under pressure ever single race where he had to give 110% to beat Hamilton.

After that season, Max evolved into someone who had gone through most likely the absolute worst stress and walked away with a win and championship.

Which is why if anyone were to challenge him in 2024 and beyond, he would be stress free, pressure free as all he wanted was a championship, and he got it. Now he just drives for fun, and as you can see with the rest of the field, not many drivers can drive with that much pressure. RUS flew into a wall in Singapore, Charles in 2022 crashed in some races on his own, Perez falling apart after Miami, binning his car at Monaco.