Experienced Workplace Harrassment?

[royaldiamond]

I cannot condone what he said, but sometimes you have to look at the office environment. Are all the workers pretty close and friendly (do they joke around alot)? Sometimes my friends at work may say things that others may find offensive, but it is usually between us joking around.

I'm thinking that he thinks that you and him are "close" enough to say those things. if my friend said "chicken flied rice" compared to someone i didn't know that well, my reaction would be completely different (i'm asian too).

I would just pay more attention to what he says in the future and if he says other "racist" things then take him aside and tell him that you don't think those type of comments are not appropriate at work and it bothers you. Usually at work if problems arise between colleagues, be professional and talk things over first before escalation.

[bimmette]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

The word Oriental is interesting. I had one of my frat brothers ask me if I was offended by the word Oriental. I asked why? He ask doesn't it mean something derogatory? I said, I don't know. It doesn't offend me and I never new it was such a bad word.

I guess my disconnection to that word might be due to being natively born in the States. But hanging around my other "ethnic brothers or sisters", we've never had the conversation of Oriental being offensive ever come up.

My co-worker called me Oriental this week and I informed him that it's actually a derogatory term. It doesn't bother me at all and we say all kinds of politically incorrect stuff amongst us but I just wanted him to be aware in case he said it to someone else.

Basically, know your office. OP mentioned the bad language used in his/her office that he/she thought was inappropriate, but in mine, I would be annoyed if it was frowned upon.

[Mr Pete]

I would consider this harassment, based on the workplace definition. I would tell this guy to cut it out. If it continues, you need to visit HR and file a complaint. I would have thought people would be, in 2015, respectful and courteous enough to not speak like this in a professional work environment.

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs323i

First one was a mock telephone conversation while testing out the new headsets our office received. Ordering Chinese take out in the sing-songy shyt style.

The weird crappy part about this is that this person is also partly training me too. How f'ed up is that?

Second instance was when two guys were thinking of what to have for lunch and again that sick sing-songy shyt comes out again.

I haven't heard that crap since grade school.

Depends on which workplace. If it is like S&P500 companies, I am sure someone already told the HR about what the pretending to be funny ass clown said to co-workers.

If it is like mom and pop store, you might have to........ nevermind.

Originally Posted by diesel1879

OP you should definitely pull him to the side and let him know that you do not tolerate those kinds of remarks. Tell him you understand that he might think it's funny and in good fun but it's not. I wouldn't go to HR just yet. If he does it again or acts strange send an email to have documentation. Then go to HR.

I have gone through more than my fair share of harassment. I work for a fortune 500 company and have heard every racist comment there is. I am of middle eastern decent and had grown out my facial hair for movember. Almost ever person on my floor asked me if i was going to "blow something up" and if i was "joining IShit"

I have family in Syria that have been killed and displaced because of that monster group so it was something that was very sensitive to me. no one wants those monsters off the face of the planet more than the people that have lost family to them. To be associated with them is pure insult. I immediately held my ground and let them know that their comments wont stand. I also explained my situation just as i did now.

Sometimes they think its in pure fun, let them know its not. If they do it again go to HR and document it. Good luck and sorry you're going through this. Ive been going through it for many years and it never gets better.

Originally Posted by BMW F22

Until I transferred to a different program, I worked with an Indian guy on my previous team. He is the outgoing type and doesn't quite know when to stop talking. On more than one occasions he did the Chinese accents, made fun of Asians, and one time did the Asian eye gesture when we were sitting with a bunch of co-workers watching football at a restaurant. After that I don't really hang out with him anymore. I wasn't really offended as I normally don't give a crap. I just felt more embarrassed being around him more than anything. I mean, come on, you have to understand that when we are in public, keep those jokes tamed and PC. Shoot, I am Asian and sometimes make fun of the way we can't drive, etc. but I would never, ever make the kind of jokes that are borderline racist. Some people think it's funny when they say things like that when all it does is make them look like an idiot.

That stupid terrorist joke would not be tolerated at most of the work place.
What is wrong with fucking idiots these days?

Are they hiring people from Minority/Black/White/Asian/non-coed ONLY School which they have no fucking experience with diversity???

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs323i

I started a new job at a small company last June and so far it has been pretty good until one of my coworkers on two separate occasions pulled the 'chicken flied lice' comment in my presence as well as others.

The first time it happened I was shocked and didn't know how to react as it has been many years since old school yard stuff. I was pissed off but I thought that it was a one-off and let it slide.

This week it happened the second time and in front of another coworker who gave a nervous laugh. This time I was pissed off again and stared at the guy who did it.

Been thinking about it last night as to what approach to take. Either talk to him in person but that means everyone else can hear it or send an email telling him to stop that crap.

I don't think your gender has relevance here.

Based on what you've shared with us, I don't think you should take any action. If you insist on taking action, you should make sure you understand the culture in your company, as well as the attitude of the people whom you'll have to involve in getting whatever satisfaction you seek, before you choose a course of action.

You have two basic directions from which to choose:

• Informal:
  • Talk to the offensive speaker about it and gauge their response in order to know whether more action is necessary. Or...
  • Talk to your boss about it and ask for guidance. Or...
  • Talk to your boss and the offensive speaker's boss about it and ask for action.
• Formal:
  • Send a formal letter to HR
    1. Document the event.
    2. Send the document formally (i.e., some sort of delivery method that allows you to have a personal and permanent record of the letter and that it was delivered to your company's HR department; sending it via your employer controlled email account will not do that) to the HR department and keep a copy for yourself.
    3. In the document make clear what transpired, who was present, what was said, and, unlike what you've shared with us, whether you believe you were the target of the slur, and state that either way, you believe that the company values do not support or encourage that sort of speech, behavior and thinking among its workforce. Follow that statement in your letter to HR with a specific question that HR must answer: Does this company support -- tacitly or expressly -- the nature and extent of speech and behavior displayed by.....?
    4. Identify what you want HR to do in response to your letter and the other party's comments. One of the things they'll do no matter what you ask for is speak with various people to determine whether your claim is valid. Since you didn't document the first occurrence, you may have an uphill battle trying to get much in the way of reparations, reprimands, corrective actions, etc.
  • Write to your jurisdiction's labor relations agency and ask for their guidance on how to handle the matter and ask what assistance they can offer if you opt to handle it "this way or that."

If I insisted on taking any action, I'd probably first speak with the other person. But here's the thing....

If the person is, just plain and simple, an insensitive bigot, talking to him/her isn't going to do you any good other than making him aware that you aren't a person to whom he can freely display his insensitivity. If that's all you want as an outcome, then talk to them; that much you can probably accomplish on your own unless the person is a total boor. But know that if that's what you want, the insensitivity is still there; it's just that you won't be present to see/hear it.

If, on the other hand, the person is respectful and not bigoted, but nonetheless an ignorant person who thus doesn't understand the insensitivity of their comment, talking with them is likely all that's necessary. It wouldn't be surprising to find the person is ignorant for many people are so internally focused that they have no idea of how to empathize with others, don't think they should and don't know how. That's not necessarily the same as not wanting to, or being unwilling to empathize, but it can appear to be the same thing.


Why I Think You Should Do Nothing:
I don't have any trouble seeing that the comment indicates a level of insensitivity on the speaker's part. I'm surprised to read that the statement, in and of itself, qualifies as a harassing one. I can see it as part of a harassing act provided the statement was made regarding, and directed at, a specific person or group who/that was present at the time.

I mean let's be real for a moment; harassment must have a target and you haven't identified one. Your thread title tells us you experienced harassment, but your story doesn't state anything other than that someone twice uttered an insensitive and offensive statement while you were present to hear it. So what you've established, at best, is that basically that someone insulted you, but even there you haven't told us you were the target of the insult. Sure, a pattern of repeated insults can become harassment, but for that to be so there still needs to be a target.

So what I'm saying is that you've not shown us any reason for you to take action. The reason may exist, but you've not made it clear that it does. So if/when you speak with "whomever," be very clear -- contextually and literally -- about how the statements the person made apply to you.

It may be that you weren't the object of the epithet. It may be that you felt offended, perhaps embarrassed, for someone as a sympathetic listener. It may be that the whole matter is one of your disapproving of that sort of expressed insensitivity in general and thinking the workplace is no place for it. If any of that's so, you'd be right, but that doesn't constitute harassment, at least not in my mind. (Apparently your town/state thinks differently...I take your word for that.)

If the "something" you want to achieve by taking "whatever action" is to help keep your work environment free, at the very least, from openly expressed bigotry or indications of it, okay. But make it clear that's what you seek and be clear on where you fit in the middle of the whole "thing."

In closing, regardless of whether you were the target of the slur or not, I applaud you for (1) recognizing the slur and (2) having the courage and willingness (be you Asian or not, be you the target or not) to take a stand and make clear that vulgar speech such as that has no place around you.

I've on occasion had acquaintances who've felt that since no member of a specific group was present, it was okay to speak of them using the colloquial slurs and epithets. It is not okay, it was not, it will never be. Short of basic civil niceties, I haven't had a thing to say to those people since and they know very well why. If that's the position in which you find yourself, kudos to you. It's not an easy stance to take, and it's saddening to have to do so.

All the best.

P.S.
Were I to choose the course of speaking with the offender, I'd do it in person. I'd do it that way because it'd allow me to read their body language as I hear their words. That in turn helps me better assess the extent to which I can believe what they say to me.

[MisterSkiMask]

I'll refer you to the case of rubber vs glue.

Seriously, this thread makes me sad. Stop watching cnn, stop looking for things to be 'offended' by and get to work.

Words only have as much power as you give them. If someone says some stupid nonsense call them on it, a head shake and an eye roll will probably be enough to make them feel stupid and let them know that they need to work on some new material.

On the scale of real life grown up problems this is nothing, you should be embarrassed that you brought it to the attention of a car forum.

Learn to deal with the little problems and you'll find that they're almost all little problems.

[ASAP]

The problem with workplaces is that you never want to be seen as the guy people dislike, a trouble maker or one that goes to HR. You may be right but in the grand scheme of things, saying something may screw you over especially if it's that place's culture.

[DSB335d]

Sorry/ not sorry. Fire back at him next time and let the guy hear how stupid he sounds.

[Needbmwpartzz]

This is the wrong place for getting advice on the matter....as you are going to get responses from a wide array of positions and people that would be the ones to make comments that may offend you.
Leave the policing for the pro's which would be HR and they can only enforce what is substantiated by you or other witnesses.
But since you asked on a car forum here.....if this was a one off occurrence I would try a easier approach by simply talking to the individual(in private and calmly) that had offended you and try to ascertain whether the insensitivity was indeed directed at you..(which may or may not be the case)maybe you have a problem with the person you explained and let your mind wander into a negative pattern of thought........any ways I was not there to make a full judgement on the situation and only those that were would be able to get a better take on the situation.

[P1]

This is coming from a foreigner that works in the US. Your skin needs to be a bit thicker and you cannot be so sensitive. Do not resort to HR right off the bat. Tell the guy you're annoyed by the joke in a polite manner. It's a small company. Who says HR will be on your side? You could shoot yourself in the foot here. I've seen it happen.

Since English is not my native tongue, people ask me EVERY SINGLE DAY where I'm from. People mock my accent EVERY SINGLE DAY. If I was to take offense to that, I probably wouldn't get very far in life.

As a European, the political correctness of this country is going too far.

What's next? Me be afraid to ask the Indian guy in the office what the best place in town is to get Indian food? Unreal...

[Templar]

Didn't read the whole thread as most of it is probably nonsense anyway.

Bottom line, if it pissed you off, talk to the person directly and tell them to knock it off. If you're afraid to say anything to the person, then suck it up and move on.

Only a real tool runs to HR or something without trying to talk to the "offender" first. Chances are the person doesn't even realize what happened. You don't have to be a dick to them either, just pull them aside and say that it's derogatory and offensive and they should be careful. They'll probably say, "Oh wow I didn't even think of it, sorry." If they don't and they continue to do it or give you a hard time, then maybe it's time to go to HR. Just give them a chance to fix their attitude first.

LOL at people saying to get a thick skin... So I should be able to go around my workplace and use racial slurs for jokes? And everyone else should just get thicker skin?

But an e-mail? Really? Grow up and approach them. This isn't high school. Why would everyone else have to hear it? And so what if they did? Most people would probably respect you for standing up for your convictions... Or they'll think your a sensitive pansy. So what? If you're that shy or nervous, just pull the person aside.

I don't get offended too easily in person (although I'll enjoy some troll sessions online), but if someone is going on about something that does happen to offend me or a friend I am with, I'm probably going to say something to them.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by bimmette

My co-worker called me Oriental this week and I informed him that it's actually a derogatory term. It doesn't bother me at all and we say all kinds of politically incorrect stuff amongst us but I just wanted him to be aware in case he said it to someone else.

Basically, know your office. OP mentioned the bad language used in his/her office that he/she thought was inappropriate, but in mine, I would be annoyed if it was frowned upon.

I didn't even know "oriental" was a derogatory term.

They should add the term "corn-fed" to that list, it offends me.

[schoy]

Originally Posted by Biorin

+1. I think it's very easy for things to get blown out of proportion by elevating it to a third party, rather than just saying directly how you feel. Yes, some people are idiots. Do you necessarily deserve to lose your job and have a permanent mark on your record because of being an idiot? I generally don't think so.

-1. First of all, no one's going to lose their job based on one incident. Most companies (with HR departments who are advised by any decent employment attorney) understand that firing an employee involves a ton of legal risk (wrongful termination suits, etc.). Hence, HR departments will bend over backwards to try to amicably resolve the situation, and firing an employee is almost always the last resort.

Second, this wouldn't show up as some "permanent mark" on some record that would follow the employee for the rest of his/her life. If he/she left the company, for example, this incident wouldn't be made privy to the next employer (which would subject the old company to a lawsuit).

So, again, if the behavior really offended you, i still say, if this is a company with decent legal counsel to advise them of employment law issues (and so they have a robust HR department), go to HR. They are trained to handle these situations. If you confront the offender directly, you might inadvertently escalate the situation and then find YOURSELF being called into HR. Fair or not, it happens more often than you think.

EDIT: just reread OP's post and sae that he/she worked at a "small company". Hence, i'd want to know what kind of HR department this company has, if there even is one. If there isn't one, or if the HR group consists of only one person (and the high potential for a conflict of interest), then, yes, you may have to take matters in your own hands.

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

[infamousdiz]

work at for a fire dept if you want to see slurs... my god, i dont think anyone can make a sentence there without fuck in it. we make fun of the way you walk, talk, look like and pick apart your entire life and if you cant take it...well it gets worst.....Now if you want to make a big deal about...HR.....then have fun working 24-48 hours talking to yourself and being exiled

Example: say you put some weight, will you know it....dam chris, you are one fat fuck, here have a doughnut

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by P1et

This is coming from a foreigner that works in the US. Your skin needs to be a bit thicker and you cannot be so sensitive. Do not resort to HR right off the bat. Tell the guy you're annoyed by the joke in a polite manner. It's a small company. Who says HR will be on your side? You could shoot yourself in the foot here. I've seen it happen.

Since English is not my native tongue, people ask me EVERY SINGLE DAY where I'm from. People mock my accent EVERY SINGLE DAY. If I was to take offense to that, I probably wouldn't get very far in life.

As a European, the political correctness of this country is going too far.

What's next? Me be afraid to ask the Indian guy in the office what the best place in town is to get Indian food? Unreal...

Yes... yes... oh and yes...

[W Cole]

Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs323i

I started a new job at a small company last June and so far it has been pretty good until one of my coworkers on two separate occasions pulled the 'chicken flied lice' comment in my presence as well as others.
The first time it happened I was shocked and didn't know how to react as it has been many years since old school yard stuff. I was pissed off but I thought that it was a one-off and let it slide.
This week it happened the second time and in front of another coworker who gave a nervous laugh. This time I was pissed off again and stared at the guy who did it.
Been thinking about it last night as to what approach to take. Either talk to him in person but that means everyone else can hear it or send an email telling him to stop that crap.

I'm not sure I get it. He called "chicken fried rice" "chicken fried lice?" Or is the "chicken flied lice comment" slang for something else I'm unaware of?

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

Originally Posted by W Cole

I'm not sure I get it. He called "chicken fried rice" "chicken fried lice?" Or is the "chicken flied lice comment" slang for something else I'm unaware of?

The first one.


It's honestly as simple as if it bothers him/her- tell the guy, hey- not cool. He's probably just trying to be funny without realizing he's offending people.

Op needs to stop being such a sensitive butthole, and simply educate the person. If it continues- then see what further steps need to be taken.

Not an offense that needs to go to HR and have any possible sanctions.

.

He simply said...

[P1]

Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls

The first one.


It's honestly as simple as if it bothers him/her- tell the guy, hey- not cool. He's probably just trying to be funny without realizing he's offending people.

Op needs to stop being such a sensitive butthole, and simply educate the person. If it continues- then see what further steps need to be taken.

Not an offense that needs to go to HR and have any possible sanctions.

.

He simply said...

I just called Bimmerpost HR on you sir. You'll be hearing from them soon.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by P1et

I just called Bimmerpost HR on you sir. You'll be hearing from them soon.

Hahahahaha

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

Originally Posted by P1et

I just called Bimmerpost HR on you sir. You'll be hearing from them soon.

Hahahahaha

Nahhh, Jason and Dackle love me

[John 070]

Everybody looks at things differently. When my coworker ran her foot up my leg, I thought it's innocent enough, just embarrassing if anyone else saw it. Maybe another guy flips out. It made me think back to the 7th grade when a girl did that.

After a blind date, I hugged this girl (this was holy **** 10 yrs. ago when I was single). She sent me an email that what I did was very inappropriate and made her feel uncomfortable. I was shocked. This girl was Asian, so that told me, Asians do not do that in general I guess. Because I hug everybody, even close guy friends, not kidding. But she was really offended, I thought I would be a registered offender for that!! lol

In some crazy way, this is a first world problem, so feel glad that you have problems like this. Other parts of the world they have serious problems...