The end of the Camaro after 57 years

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Not sure I'm with you here. Currently the Free market is exceeded by Government and Banking interference.

GM Say EV Demand Is Shrinking, but Data Shows a Complex Market
Oct 20, 2023
Idled plants and pushed-back production timelines signal a lull in EV sales, but analysts say demand is just one piece of the puzzle.
If EV sales are seemingly on the rise, it begs the question of what is truly behind GM's decision to take a step back from Silverado EV production. Karl Brauer, iSeeCars' executive analyst, sees the move as potentially prudent in the long run, in spite of positive sales trends for individual vehicles and specific statewide trends.
"There seems to be a threshold of around 7%-10% share before EV sales drastically slow down. That's the situation in California, Oregon, and Washington, where those states have the largest EV share but also the slowest growth in EV share," Brauer explained.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/a45586...rends-gm-ford/

Key takeaway from that article:

"There's this widespread assumption that costs will come down, energy density will go up, and the infrastructure will come together. It paints a great picture, but having an industry move full-speed ahead under those assumptions is extremely risky. And everyone from the automakers to the government regulators knows it, even if they won't publicly admit it," Brauer said.

This is exactly the issue. But no one stands up to CARB and the politicians they have brainwashed to believe in anthropogenic globalwarmingclimatechange. Eventually the consumer will.

[Car-Addicted]

Some interesting numbers:
The sixth generation ran for nine years, selling a healthy 72,705 units in its first full year on sale in 2016. Yet it was never able to reach the heights of the fifth generation—which crested the 80,000-unit mark in five different years—and sales dwindled to just 24,652 vehicles in 2022.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...aro-dead-2024/

[XutvJet]

I find it pretty funny that GM has struggled with the F-Body numerous times, yet, the Mustang charges along every time with little risk of it disappearing. The Mustang has it's own chassis yet the 5th/6th Camaro had its platform shared with a passenger sedan thus controlling weight was an issue. GM undoubtedly always had the upper hand in all out performance compared to the Stang, but they struggled at capturing and keeping interest.

As others pointed out, the cost of the Stangs and Camaros have become absolutely bonkers. I get that these cars have gone more upscale and more focused on sport vs muscle, but damn, they are not what they used to be. In 1990, you could get a fully loaded Mustang GT for around $13-14K. That's low $30s in todays money. The MSRP of a new bare bones Mustang GT is $44K and most are listed in the mid to upper $50s with the typical options. Ford is teetering on loosing its audience too with these prices.

Then there's the size of the current gen Stang and Camaro. These cars are are huge and full of waste space. A current Stang and Camaro somehow manage to be 14 inches longer and 5+ inches wider than my 2016 M235, yet have WAY less useable interior and truck space. That's bonkers. Even crazier is that those cars weigh on average 500lbs-700lbs more than my M235! I'm pretty sure the interior room of a much smaller Subaru BRZ is almost as good as a Stang or Camaro.

I would love to see Ford and GM get back to versions of these cars that were comparable in size to the Fox body Stang and late 1960s F-Bodies. And also, go back to the basics with less equipment and smaller V8 pushrod motors. Toyota is doing that right now with the new Land Cruiser. The truck is smaller, lighter, and not laden with a ton of tech and luxury. Toyota understands how to get it's interest back in that SUV. They will sell a ton of them.

[Car-Addicted]

This wins the internet today:
"The forest was shrinking, but the Trees kept voting for the Axe, for the Axe was clever and convinced the Trees that because his handle was made of wood, he was one of them."

[chris719]

EVs, regulations, fuel economy, etc. did not kill the Camaro. Lack of demand killed the Camaro. People just want SUVs and the few sports car people that are left did not find it to be their cup of tea.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by chris719

EVs, regulations, fuel economy, etc. did not kill the Camaro. Lack of demand killed the Camaro. People just want SUVs and the few sports car people that are left did not find it to be their cup of tea.

I disagree

ICE sports cars and manuals have actually increased market share.

GM ruined the Camaro styling which caused drop off in demand. All they had to do is make it appealing again like they did with C8 Corvette.
The new S650 Mustang also has same challenges as its uglier than S550, costs way more and performance #s are actually worse. The Dark Horse is like $70k which were the prices for Shelby GT350R.

[Car-Addicted]

There are so many headwinds now it's hard to blame any one thing for the Camaro and what ever gets dropped next. Interest rates make financing more expensive, inflation effects consumer budgets and economic uncertainty effects consumer confidence, plus government influences on the market. GM numbers are a little hard to find but this is a very good sales numbers for the Mustang from Ford.
https://fordauthority.com/fmc/ford-m...sales-numbers/

[RM7]

Originally Posted by chris719

EVs, regulations, fuel economy, etc. did not kill the Camaro. Lack of demand killed the Camaro. People just want SUVs and the few sports car people that are left did not find it to be their cup of tea.

Yep, every family needs an SUV.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by R N M

ICE sports cars and manuals have actually increased market share.

Over what? SUVs?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by RM7

Yep, every family needs an SUV.

Yup. Mom had a 1965 Ford Country Squire 289 3-sp cruise-o-matic auto. Dad had a 1965 Mustang, black over red, 289, 4-speed. Family of 8. We got along.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Yup. Mom had a 1965 Ford Country Squire 289 3-sp cruise-o-matic auto. Dad had a 1965 Mustang, black over red, 289, 4-speed. Family of 8. We got along.

Maybe, but these days, they'd all have SUVs and trucks.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by RM7

Maybe, but these days, they'd all have SUVs and trucks.

That's my point, the 1965 Country Squire was the family SUV of its day. Meaning its no different than 60 years ago. The 1960's American station wagon morphed into the Minivan, that's now become the CUV and SUV of the 2000's.

Same shit, just a different cracker.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

That's my point, the 1965 Country Squire was the family SUV of its day. Meaning its no different than 60 years ago. The 1960's American station wagon morphed into the Minivan, that's now become the CUV and SUV of the 2000's.

Same shit, just a different cracker.

In a sense, yes, but I don't even see sedans anymore basically. I see teens, solo commuters, etc. in CUVs.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by RM7

Yep, every family needs an SUV.

Man that's sad, but a glance at the local grocery store parking lot tells me you're right. Wouldn't the lot look better filled with Camaro's, Mustangs and chargers?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Man that's sad, but a glance at the local grocery store parking lot tells me you're right. Wouldn't the lot look better filled with Camaro's, Mustangs and chargers?

Back in my day (yours too probably) parents didn't really give a crap how their children "felt" when riding in the car. And they smoked too. Lol.

Spent many a trip unbelted, straddling the transmission hump taking 2nd-hand hits off mom's freshly lit Marlboros.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Back in my day (yours too probably) parents didn't really give a crap how their children "felt" when riding in the car. And they smoked too. Lol.

Ah the good old days.
We didn't need no stink'in SUV.



Three kids in the back and two neighbor kids and the family dog. Good times.

[Germanauto]

Rented one a year ago, it was quite nice handling compared compared to the other pony cars.

[3798j]

My favorite year...loved the torque of the SS396 and the Z28's 302DZ lumpy idle sounding through its chambered exhaust....Good Stuff.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by 3798j

My favorite year...loved the torque of the SS396 and the Z28's 302DZ lumpy idle sounding through its chambered exhaust....Good Stuff.

Can you imagine the value of the contents of that trailer today?