Fake Watches -- Does it really matter?

[Killramos]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Never understood wearing a watch when doing everything. I wear a watch every day to work or out but promptly take it off as well as wedding ring when I am at home. Just can't understand wearing it to mow the lawn or work on my car or drive it at the track for that matter. Last one is a pet peeve of mine, it's in the way if your actually driving not posing. Who the hell wants the discomfort of it, or the risk to it, or yourself if doing something manual, or the tan line, ... maybe some people like Kanye are so vain can't be seen without at least one of my watches?

i mostly like knowing what time it is

[P1]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Never understood wearing a watch when doing everything. I wear a watch every day to work or out but promptly take it off as well as wedding ring when I am at home. Just can't understand wearing it to mow the lawn or work on my car or drive it at the track for that matter. Last one is a pet peeve of mine, it's in the way if your actually driving not posing. Who the hell wants the discomfort of it, or the risk to it, or yourself if doing something manual, or the tan line, ... maybe some people like Kanye are so vain can't be seen without at least one of my watches?

Agree!

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by Killramos

i mostly like knowing what time it is

Do you have a clock in your garage, your house, know a poser at the track that has a watch? Well then your set and don't have to be a tool bag.

[GabeS]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Do you have a clock in your garage, your house, know a poser at the track that has a watch? Well then your set and don't have to be a tool bag.

What about cell phones? Thats the new world clock...I dont understand how watches aren't obsolete right now, I see guys with watches pulling their phones out to check time all the time lol.

[1MOREMOD]

Right watch is more of a fashion statement or article of clothing than a tool at this point.

[Ok]

I don`t see nothing wrong with wearing fake watches.
Some people can`t afford the real one or they just can`t see themselves paying $5000.00 or $10.000.00 plus for a watches.
I myself never paid more than just over $2000.00 a real watch, and I don`t have many real watches. For one I can`t afford a $5000.00 or $10.000.00 watch unless I am dipping into my retirement savings which I don`t see that being to wise of me. I would be wearing a watch that is beyond my financial capabilities, there for I have a few Tag, Panerai, etc, replicas that the real one would cost $5000.00 or more to buy. But if someone ask me if its real or a fake I tell them the truth, I just like the style of that particular watch, but like I said I cant afford the real one therefore I bought the replica.
Some of my fake watches keep better time than the real ones .

[SunnyD]

Originally Posted by E90 330xi

I don`t see nothing wrong with wearing fake watches.
Some people can`t afford the real one or they just can`t see themselves paying $5000.00 or $10.000.00 plus for a watches.
I myself never paid more than just over $2000.00 a real watch, and I don`t have many real watches. For one I can`t afford a $5000.00 or $10.000.00 watch unless I am dipping into my retirement savings which I don`t see that being to wise of me. I would be wearing a watch that is beyond my financial capabilities, there for I have a few Tag, Panerai, etc, replicas that the real one would cost $5000.00 or more to buy. But if someone ask me if its real or a fake I tell them the truth, I just like the style of that particular watch, but like I said I cant afford the real one therefore I bought the replica.
Some of my fake watches keep better time than the real ones .

Why not just buy a different brand that has a similar style (i.e. Invicta)? Why does it have to be a fake or a replica?

[Ok]

Originally Posted by SunnyD

Why not just buy a different brand that has a similar style (i.e. Invicta)? Why does it have to be a fake or a replica?

I don`t like Rolex , I think because they are one of most common brands out there. I have a real one that was a gift that I never wear because I don`t like it, and I don`t have any Rolex replicas either.
I could not find any watches that looked like the replicas that I from a good watch manufacturer, that's why I bought the replicas.
For example I have a replica of the this Tag. Do you know a good manufacturer that makes a near identical watch? Thanks.
https://shop-us.tagheuer.com/en/cali...15-ba0902.html

[Z K]

Originally Posted by P1et

It makes about as much sense as buying your wife a 5 carat diamond ring, and her putting it away in a safe and only wearing a cubic zirconia copy.

Most people I know do not wear their engagement ring on a daily basis. It is in a safe and they just wear the wedding band every day.

And some people do buy both. 5 minutes on google brings up this review of a rep vs the gen AP that the guy bought both of. Has nothing to do whether he could afford a $20k watch or not. Also has nothing to do with an intention to deceive others.

i decided to get a rep montoya to try on for size and the rest is history.

fast forward to 5 months a several reps later, i decided that I really wanted to try a panda dial and ordered one. by chance, while the rep was being delivered I walked by an AP boutique while shopping with my wife...and right there in the main display starring at me straight in the face was a panda dial on a bracelet--exactly what i wanted. we walked in, i tried it on, and the rest is a hazy memory clouded by excitement!

after wearing the gen for 4 days the rep arrived. i'm amazed at the awesome job the factories did on repping this watch. as you AP guru's know, it is not a true 1:1 but for 2% of what the gen costs there is really nothing to complain about

Without further adieu:

Side by side. Even at this distance, at a quick glance you can't really tell the two apart


Did you guess it? The Gen is the one on the right (date wheel@23).

Close-Ups

Gen


Rep

The first thing that catches my eye is the AR...easy mod. The dial is also more 3 dimensional on the Gen. Looking at them side by side, there is also a noticeable difference from the AP logo as well as the font used for the date wheel. The Gen logo is smaller and applied differently (somehow I think the Rep actually look better in this respect). The font used on the Gen date wheel is also fuller than the Rep. Case, bezel, pushers, CG, crown, hands, numerals, chronos, all look pretty spot on! the brushed finish on the Gen is finer as is the polish on the bezel screws. overall fit and finish on the Gen is better than the Rep but only noticeable if you really pay attention to it.

Gen


Rep

From the side it's even harder to tell the two apart--hats off to the reppers! if the time was set identically i'd have a very difficult time telling which photo is of the Gen. Many here (myself included) are obsessed about the bezel screws. The Gen is just ever so slightly recessed and perfectly uniform whereas the Rep needs a bit more work. Another difference here is the links on the bracelet. The Gen is slightly more rounded and is more flexible. This is also reflected on how the watch wears...the Rep is stiffer and does not conform to the wrist as nicely (you can tell by how the bracelet 'hugs' the pillow on the Gen). For those with bigger meatier wrists it probably does not matter, but my on puny 6 3/8" wrist the Rep is noticeably more uncomfortable.

Gen


Rep

Other than the font, the case back is very close to each other. At this angle you can again see how the Gen bracelet is able to conform better to the wrist.

Gen


Rep

The engraving on the clasp is very good. Without a side by side comparison it's hard to spot the Rep. The engraving is just deeper/finer on the Gen but the positioning on the Rep is spot on. You can't tell from the photos, but the Gen clasp fastens with a more satisfying click and holds better/firmer than the Rep. The Rep still fastens just as well and stays put on the wrist but the Gen just feels more solid (like when you close a door on the Mercedes S-Class vs a Honda Civic, they both function the same but one does it with more authority). You'll notice that the Rep is upside-down to the Gen. Not sure if this was just a production mistake or if all the Reps come like this but this is an easy one to fix by simply flipping the clasp.

Gen


Rep

Not much to say here except "good job rep factory!!!" (okay, if you really must be picky, the case back is slightly thicker but it is not physically or visually noticeable when you wear the watch)

Conclusion
The latest AP ROO Silver Theme Ultimate Edition is an awesome rep. With some small mods and maybe a splurge on a Gen bracelet would give this watch both Gen-like appearance and comfort.

[P1]

Originally Posted by Z K

Most people I know do not wear their engagement ring on a daily basis. It is in a safe and they just wear the wedding band every day.

And some people do buy both. 5 minutes on google brings up this review of a rep vs the gen AP that the guy bought both of. Has nothing to do whether he could afford a $20k watch or not. Also has nothing to do with an intention to deceive others.

I still don't get it. Why did he buy the fake version? Just to be able to post a review of how the fake one looks like the real one? Why on earth own both? Do I need to buy a real M3, and then have a 328i with M badges also?

[P1]

Originally Posted by E90 330xi

I don`t see nothing wrong with wearing fake watches.
Some people can`t afford the real one or they just can`t see themselves paying $5000.00 or $10.000.00 plus for a watches.
I myself never paid more than just over $2000.00 a real watch, and I don`t have many real watches. For one I can`t afford a $5000.00 or $10.000.00 watch unless I am dipping into my retirement savings which I don`t see that being to wise of me. I would be wearing a watch that is beyond my financial capabilities, there for I have a few Tag, Panerai, etc, replicas that the real one would cost $5000.00 or more to buy. But if someone ask me if its real or a fake I tell them the truth, I just like the style of that particular watch, but like I said I cant afford the real one therefore I bought the replica.
Some of my fake watches keep better time than the real ones .

If you cannot afford, then don't buy it mate. Simple as that. Do you buy your girl fake Louis Vuitton purses also?

[N8N]

I'm late to the party but I'd rather wear a genuine Seiko than a fake Rolex or Omega. Part of the appeal of a "fine" watch to me is what's under the hood, not what it looks like (much like a car.) So knowing that I have a legit Seiko automatic means more to me than fronting or what have you. When I feel like dressing up I wear a vintage Longines that I've spent more over the years on servicing than I did to purchase (IIRC it was $90 for that and an old Mido that ended up being unrepairable.)

Now your money your choice, but I feel more comfortable wearing my $200 Seiko 009 than I would even a really good fake.

[z3papa]

This thread just makes me scratch my head and say "wow". I mean I've got a few nice watches (Tag, some antiques, etc.) but nothing over the top but who gives a rat ass if someone wears a fake watch. That's their call or I want to wear my watch when driving. Lately, because my kids think I need to lose weight, I've been wearing a fitbit. Does that mean it has to be a real fitbit? Yes, of course it is, but who cares?

[Z K]

Originally Posted by P1et

I still don't get it. Why did he buy the fake version? Just to be able to post a review of how the fake one looks like the real one? Why on earth own both? Do I need to buy a real M3, and then have a 328i with M badges also?

If you read the review, he was looking for something to try out. He saw the real one in person one day and decided to buy it. He then decided to review both since he had both.

It is not quite like owning a 328 with M badges. It is like owning a 328 with the OEM wide body of the M3, with an M V8 under the hood, same exterior / interior and similar performance figures. It's not an M3, but you'd have a hard time telling without popping the hood and can't tell without the original side by side to compare. It is not quite possible in the automotive world but it is possible in the watch world because it's easier to make an exact copy of watch than a car.

[Ok]

Originally Posted by P1et

If you cannot afford, then don't buy it mate. Simple as that. Do you buy your girl fake Louis Vuitton purses also?

I buy whatever I want because it`s my money, when you are the one that is paying my bills then you can tell me what to buy or not to buy.
I buy my wife what I can afford when she tells me her gift suggestion, if she asks for a fake purse, then sure enough I will buy her a fake one.
Why are trying to tell everyone what they should do anyways?
Not everyone thinks the same way you do, and your way is not the only way.
If everyone though the same way, this World would be even worst off than what it is. Everyone has an opinion, so yours is not the only one, and for sure not the right one, just because you think/believe it is, it might not be to other people.
A lot people that can afford a $50.000.00 watch choose not buy it for whatever reason, but for you to compare M3 label`s on non M3 cars with real watches and fake ones is like comparing apples to oranges.
For what I see you guys are putting so much effort in putting down fake watches for no reason at all, people are entitle to wear whatever they want, fake or real it`s their choice, you choose not wear a fake that`s your choice and I respect that, like I respect other peoples choice for wearing a fake.

[SunnyD]

Originally Posted by E90 330xi

A lot people that can afford a $50.000.00 watch choose not buy it for whatever reason, but for you to compare M3 label`s on non M3 cars with real watches and fake ones is like comparing apples to oranges.

This is where I disagree with you. If you are rebadging a non M car and trying to pass it off as an M, then you're a poser. If you buy a fake Rolex that not only looks like a Rolex, but says "Rolex" on the dial, then you're a poser.

It comes down to the act of trying to fool other people into believing it's something that it's not. For example, if said owner of the non M car, let's say a 328, decided to debadge and put some M3 parts on it, I wouldn't call him a poser. He might just like the look of it better. Same with watches; if you decide to buy another brand that has the same design (like Seiko mentioned above, or Invicta), then you're not a poser. Once you get around to actually putting M3 badges on your car, or having your replica watch say "Rolex", or "AP", or "Panerai", is when you're trying to deliberately pass it off as something it's not.

[Ok]

Originally Posted by SunnyD

This is where I disagree with you. If you are rebadging a non M car and trying to pass it off as an M, then you're a poser. If you buy a fake Rolex that not only looks like a Rolex, but says "Rolex" on the dial, then you're a poser.

It comes down to the act of trying to fool other people into believing it's something that it's not. For example, if said owner of the non M car, let's say a 328, decided to debadge and put some M3 parts on it, I wouldn't call him a poser. He might just like the look of it better. Same with watches; if you decide to buy another brand that has the same design (like Seiko mentioned above, or Invicta), then you're not a poser. Once you get around to actually putting M3 badges on your car, or having your replica watch say "Rolex", or "AP", or "Panerai", is when you're trying to deliberately pass it off as something it's not.

I agree with you when you say that some people might be trying to fool others into thinking that it`s the real thing. But if you see on one of my previous posts, I said that I buy them for their looks and not to try to pass them as the REAL thing. If someone asks me I`ll gladly tell them the truth if its real or not. I don`t flash the my watches around I just like them for ME, and I could care less what others think. I can`t speak for anyone else, but I`m guessing that most people that can afford them are not trying to pass them as the real thing

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by P1et

I still don't get it. Why did he buy the fake version? Just to be able to post a review of how the fake one looks like the real one? Why on earth own both? Do I need to buy a real M3, and then have a 328i with M badges also?

I can't speak for the author of the article you found. (I didn't look for it, much less read it.)

I can say that as a curatorial collector, I think it's important to have a deep knowledge of, among other things, what is available in the marketplace when it comes to watches. It's one thing to know that fakes exist and with that single piece of information, one can make all manners of conjecture. It's another thing to actually have first hand experience with the differences between the fake and the real thing.

Why? The answer is perspective and value. Of course there is going to be no equivalence between the movements of fine, high end watches and those of inexpensive fakes. Might there, however, be comparability in terms of construction? Depending on the attribute in question, there very well could be. For example, it's just not that difficult, expensive or time consuming to build a high quality, satin finish steel watch case. To a slightly lesser extent the same is true regarding bracelets.

Now if a case and bracelet can be somewhat comparable between, say, an $8K authentic watch and a $50 fake, how much comparability do you think there might be between a $50 fake "whatever" and a $400 authentic watch? The answer is substantially more. As the price of an authentic watch gets lower, the fact is that the differences between it and a fake "whatever" become less an less.

A great many consumers, not collectors, quite simply don't give a damn about watches in the first place, so for them, the name on the dial just doesn't matter, but the style itself probably does. (Everyone cares that their watch (assuming they buy one) look good to them in one way or another.) What matters is that the watch meet their expectations in terms of timekeeping performance and durability.

If, when seeking a watch, folks who don't care about watches anyway, but who know they need one, are presented with the opportunity to buy a $50 fake or a $150 authentic one, what economically sound reason have they for choosing the authentic one if they have no reason to believe or care if it performs any better than the $50 fake?

The points I noted in the prior paragraph are why watch collectors, at least the more serious ones, focus on buying vintage watches or very high end watches. Minimally, both will have aesthetic features that cannot or will not be readily and well replicated in a fake watch. Similar reasons explain in part why collectors care about traits such as pedigree, esoteric complications, complex complications, history/role in history, rare watches from rare watchmakers, movement finishing, "the watchmaker's art" and other "stuff" that don't really make a watch a better machine.

Any collector knows that above a certain sum, a watch rarely gets "better." Any collector worth his salt also has taken the time to discover just how much more one must pay to get something that is in fact a better machine and case/bracelet than an inexpensive fake. The best way to discover that is to buy what are ostensibly referred to in the PRC as "highest quality copies" and compare it to a run of the mill watch costing a few hundred dollars and to the watch it apes.

Note:
In the PRC, there are indeed high quality and low quality, and every quality in between, fakes. The quality refers to the construction methods used and the movement inside. The high quality ones often have Seagull movements inside, and Seagull make very decent low priced movements that are easily as good as an ETA Standard grade movement, Miyota 8000 series or 9000 series movement, or a basic Seiko movement. A good Western haggler should be able to get one of those "high quality" fakes for between $25 and $50.

That fakes come in varying qualities should come as no surprise. ETA movements come in varying grades: standard, elabore, top and chronometer. Even among high end makers, there are sometimes varying grades of movement. the only difference is that they start at high quality and move to "so ridiculously high quality nobody but a super wealthy collector would even see the point of paying for it."

All the best.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by tony20009

Note:
In the PRC, there are indeed high quality and low quality, and every quality in between, fakes. The quality refers to the construction methods used and the movement inside. The high quality ones often have Seagull movements inside, and Seagull make very decent low priced movements that are easily as good as an ETA Standard grade movement, Miyota 8000 series or 9000 series movement, or a basic Seiko movement. A good Western haggler should be able to get one of those "high quality" fakes for between $25 and $50.

That fakes come in varying qualities should come as no surprise. ETA movements come in varying grades: standard, elabore, top and chronometer. Even among high end makers, there are sometimes varying grades of movement. the only difference is that they start at high quality and move to "so ridiculously high quality nobody but a super wealthy collector would even see the point of paying for it."

All the best.

$50 for a good quality movement maybe but not a high end fake whole watch. The high end fake watches are anywhere from $500-1000+. They will contain actual Swiss-made ETA movements and there are tourbillion watches that have copied tourbillion movements. It is not uncommon to find copied Rolex 3135 movements that can be serviced and can use authentic replacement parts as well. At the high end prices, you are paying for the extra attention to details and the movements that go into them. These aren't $100 street specials. Factories make them in clean room conditions with modern manufacturing processes and QC checks.

Here is a ETA 2824 and a ETA 2824 clone. It's indistinguishable and parts are interchangable. You'll find similar copied movements for most popular movements. Often these movements are for sale on Alibaba, eBay and other places.

[Craigy]

Originally Posted by P1et

It makes about as much sense as buying your wife a 5 carat diamond ring, and her putting it away in a safe and only wearing a cubic zirconia copy.

Originally Posted by Z K

Most people I know do not wear their engagement ring on a daily basis. It is in a safe and they just wear the wedding band every day.

Yeah, they simply don't wear it. They don't go and get a fake one to wear on every other day.

Also, as an aside, I'd be pissed if my wife stuck her engagement ring in a safe like that

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by Z K

$50 for a good quality movement maybe but not a high end fake whole watch. The high end fake watches are anywhere from $500-1000+. ....

If you say so, sure. The fakes I see in Luohu Commercial City don't cost anything like that and my whole team of expats has scores of them. Nobody's complained about any of the. That makes them high quality enough.



Here are a couple of pages from the "menu books" the watch sellers in those little stalls will show you. There are multiple makers of the same style.







Might some of them have ETA-clone movements? Some might. I don't go that much into detail about fake watches. If it's inexpensive, doesn't fall apart, keeps time as well as a standard grade ETA or Miyota, that's going pass muster with me as "high quality" for a fake watch.

One thing I think is that it's just nuts to buy a fake, complicated watch. As soon as one gets into chronographs, let alone a more advanced complication, the differences become plainly obvious. In contrast, a simple watch like most Rolexes are easy to copy and the copies aren't hard to make be decent. The reason is that a good uncomplicated watch movement just isn't that hard to produce in 21st century.

Also, buying a copy of a watch that has elaborate aesthetics is also going to result in one getting a poorly executed piece, but that won't matter if one is happy with the look of the fake, as opposed to wanting it to resemble as closely as possibly the watch it copies. This, for example, will look nowhere near as nice in a fake.



On a fake, the imagery itself will be oddly proportioned. The color depth won't be close, and the textures will reflect light poorly. That said, if one likes whatever it might look like as a fake, so be it. Buy it.

This on the other hand is very easily reproduced as a fake. Buy an authentic gator strap for it and it'll look every bit as nice as the real thing.



I can't say what folks like and don't like. I can say that if a person likes the look of the watch above and is unwilling to spend thousands of dollars to get it, their alternatives are something similar like the ones below or a copy. Whether a similar watch is similar enough for them or not, is not mine to decide.





Back when I got my Cartier Tank, I didn't want to spend what the Louis Cartier version cost, so I bought a must de Cartier instead. At the time there were street vendors selling copies of the Cartier Tank literally across Connecticut Ave from the Cartier Boutique where I bought my watch. Even so, it was (for the times) an expensive watch and the fakes were far less expensive.

Cartier must de Cartier Tank (vermeil) (ca. 1980s)



Cartier Tank (solid gold)



I can remember back then that folks would always check to see if your Cartier branding was in cursive or print to tell if someone had bought a fake. This despite the fact that the exact same watch from the 1970s had Cartier written in cursive. Of course, "knowing just enough to be an asshole about things" isn't new; snobs today are very much like snobs in the 1980s.

On a slightly different note....Seeing as the vast majority of Chinese have never seen the authentic versions of most watches that might be copied and made available for sale in their city, it really can't matter to them how "faithful" the aesthetic aping is. Outside of the company presidents and their direct reports with whom I deal in managing projects, I would wager that not one other Chinese I've met has any idea that companies like VC, IWC, Breitling, ALS, and many others even exist. I'm sure they can "put two and two together" and realize that since they see, for example, IWC on the dial of a watch in a store that sells nothing but copy watches, they know there is likely a company called IWC making watches. That's probably the beginning and end of what they know about a company in Germany called IWC.

All the best.

[TXSTYLE]

This question and thread is as subjective as asking: "cream or sugar - mustard or mayo - clean or shaven". I mean honestly... Who truly gives a shit? If my brother, cousin, friend, neighbor or business associate decided to buy a rep, would I call him out or even ask why? Fok no! That is THEIR ca$h and choice. If it's good enough for them, then who am I to judge? Or you for that matter...
Now then, at some point in our history, watches were actually used for telling time! That was probably a good 40-50yrs ago. Well before our time. Nowadays, watches are no more than "glorified accessories". Before you go all sensitive and irate just because YOU decided to drop all that bread on a watch, I am NOT defending either side! Hell, if you want to spend $10, 15, 20k on a watch and can, more power to you. I can dig it! BUT, on the flip side, if you can't or even can and choose NOT to, I can also dig it!
Now how would I choose to spend my own bread you may ask? On neither! Although I can certainly appreciate a fine timepiece (especially Automatic), I refuse to exceed a certain $ amount on ANY watch. I don't care if it can tell time on Jupiter or fly itself onto my wrist when I hop out the shower. It's just not my thing. Sure I can afford one or two. But nah, pass. On that same token, I choose not to buy a rep either. Mostly because I'm not a fan of the styles of these high $$$ brands. So no need for me to front either.
Very rarely do I even look at my watch to get the time when my cell phones are always in hand or nearby. But I do like watches as accessories! And own quite a few that I like and fit my style (key words). So at the end of the day, you gotta "Do You". And if others opinions matter that much to you... Well that's a whole other concern.