Unpopular Opinion (NO POLITICS / NO RELIGION)

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I agree on the points made. Both of us are working, and I think what makes things even more difficult is our differing schedules. So a lot of single-parenting going on at different times of the week (although I tell my wife she has it easier because we have the nanny to help out more during the week than during weekends).

I wouldn't call my wife an emotional mess, but she has her moments. She's a physician, so that actually hurts the situation because everything is a medical issue that needs to be dealt with. Daughter not eating much lately? I chalk that up to her being a picky 5 year old and she'll eat when she's hungry. My wife on the other hand thinks she might have an eating issue and is worried about her nutrition and maybe we need to take her in to the pediatrician.

That also goes hand in hand with them being coddled too much. Our son has eczema. My response was - he'll grow out of it eventually as I had it as well and didn't have any long term issues. Her response? We need to schedule appointments with the pediatrician, dermatologist, allergist, and dietician. Now we have a daily skincare routine for him along with daily baths and a bleach bath every other day. It's a goddman nightmare. I remind her, with all this extra care she's making us do, it's a miracle the kids survive when I'm handling them on the weekends.

Live-in nanny?
















Right, all you need is another expense.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Live-in nanny?
















Right, all you need is another expense.

Let me just adjust my retirement age to 70 But also I'm just not sure I'd feel comfortable with a live-in nanny.... I'd feel like I couldn't be myself even in my own home.

And even with live-in nannies, do they work 24/7? You still have to give them some time off I think.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Let me just adjust my retirement age to 70 But also I'm just not sure I'd feel comfortable with a live-in nanny.... I'd feel like I couldn't be myself even in my own home.

And even with live-in nannies, do they work 24/7? You still have to give them some time off I think.

You should move to HK, nannies are really affordable there They get 1 day off/wk. I never bothered w one cuz you're right about the privacy thing, and ofc I didn't really need one as it's just us 2.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by tranquility

You should move to HK, nannies are really affordable there They get 1 day off/wk. I never bothered w one cuz you're right about the privacy thing, and ofc I didn't really need one as it's just us 2.

The amount of money I'd save on a nanny in HK I'd end up spending towards making sure I don't live in a tiny apartment there

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

The amount of money I'd save on a nanny in HK I'd end up spending towards making sure I don't live in a tiny apartment there

Ya, I intentionally left that out

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by H2O_Doc

Easy Cheese is underrated.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Let me just adjust my retirement age to 70 But also I'm just not sure I'd feel comfortable with a live-in nanny.... I'd feel like I couldn't be myself even in my own home.

And even with live-in nannies, do they work 24/7? You still have to give them some time off I think.

Not when they are family. My sister in law managed to get her mother to basically retire and live with them as a full time nanny. Doesn't even get paid as far as I know. I guess it's so easy having kids when you have a full time nanny they decided to pop out another one.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Not when they are family. My sister in law managed to get her mother to basically retire and live with them as a full time nanny. Doesn't even get paid as far as I know. I guess it's so easy having kids when you have a full time nanny they decided to pop out another one.

I guess that's another thing - we don't have much family help. My in-laws are retired and travel from city-city visiting their kids... Virginia, Chicago, Phoenix, San Diego. And even when they do stay with us, they're quite messy so it ends up being more work for us just to maintain cleanliness of the house. My parents are still working, and on the rare occasions that they have stayed with us for a weekend, my mom loves to tell us what we're doing wrong... Even if I'm able to tune that out, my wife would go crazy after a few days of that.

[vbb]

The last few pages of this thread have gotten real... saying anything other than "I love being a parent!" really is an unpopular opinion and will get you the side-eye. But I also think a lot of what has been said is true. Sometimes I think about it from an "philosophical evolutionary" perspective. By that, I mean that it seems our purpose as living beings is to replicate and make more living beings. That's what every living thing does, from viruses to plants to humans. The goal is to reproduce. This is why sex is desirable, to encourage reproduction. But humans are too smart for their own good, and we do what other living beings can't. We can make the conscious decision not to reproduce. Plus our average lifespans far exceed the age in which our kids are young and need constant care. So we've created a world, over thousands of years of evolution, where there's so many other things to do than just survive long enough to reproduce and raise children.

I think the real stress comes from the definition of what it means to raise kids today, and wtwo3 touched on a lot of it. What sacrifice is necessary? Is it important to do private school vs. public? Is it important to have year-round activities planned at thousands of dollars in fees and costs? Are we obligated to put our children through college and grad school? Should we take them on vacations that they're too young to remember or enjoy? Should we skip out on time with our spouses so that the kids are happy? Those questions are personal, and everyone is free to decide how they want to do it (within reason). But a lot of the stress, I think, comes from this notion that anything less than 100% devotion of time and resources to raising children is deficient. Forget your happiness. Forget your feelings towards your spouse. Forget your dreams. And when people's lives become that, resentment sets in, no matter how much you love your children.

I'm certainly no therapist, but I think it is critical to NOT treat your life as simply a vessel for raising children. They don't have to have everything all the time. It's OK to put your wants over theirs sometimes. Showing them you love them doesn't mean dedicating your entire life to them to the point where you are a shell of your former self. I think we've evolved beyond those basics.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by vbb

The last few pages of this thread have gotten real... saying anything other than "I love being a parent!" really is an unpopular opinion and will get you the side-eye. But I also think a lot of what has been said is true. Sometimes I think about it from an "philosophical evolutionary" perspective. By that, I mean that it seems our purpose as living beings is to replicate and make more living beings. That's what every living thing does, from viruses to plants to humans. The goal is to reproduce. This is why sex is desirable, to encourage reproduction. But humans are too smart for their own good, and we do what other living beings can't. We can make the conscious decision not to reproduce. Plus our average lifespans far exceed the age in which our kids are young and need constant care. So we've created a world, over thousands of years of evolution, where there's so many other things to do than just survive long enough to reproduce and raise children.

I think the real stress comes from the definition of what it means to raise kids today, and wtwo3 touched on a lot of it. What sacrifice is necessary? Is it important to do private school vs. public? Is it important to have year-round activities planned at thousands of dollars in fees and costs? Are we obligated to put our children through college and grad school? Should we take them on vacations that they're too young to remember or enjoy? Should we skip out on time with our spouses so that the kids are happy? Those questions are personal, and everyone is free to decide how they want to do it (within reason). But a lot of the stress, I think, comes from this notion that anything less than 100% devotion of time and resources to raising children is deficient. Forget your happiness. Forget your feelings towards your spouse. Forget your dreams. And when people's lives become that, resentment sets in, no matter how much you love your children.

I'm certainly no therapist, but I think it is critical to NOT treat your life as simply a vessel for raising children. They don't have to have everything all the time. It's OK to put your wants over theirs sometimes. Showing them you love them doesn't mean dedicating your entire life to them to the point where you are a shell of your former self. I think we've evolved beyond those basics.

Very well said. And I think often times to implement this line of thinking requires a lot of convincing of the spouse if perception of childcare responsibilities are not on the same page. While many of those stresses related to childcare will still be there, a big part of it is just difference of opinion - my wife doesn't WANT to spend thousands in childcare and take the kids to a healthcare specialist at any sign of something being outside of normal parameters - she just feels like she HAS to because that's what you're supposed to do. Some of it is even genetic. I don't suffer from anxiety at all - but my wife's entire family has some serious issues with it. And that translates into how she approaches childcare - everything not 100% normal is cause for concern.

All this being said - I go along with a lot of it because I love my kids, I love my wife, and keeping the family intact and as happy as possible is worth more to me than having my way over the course of a temporary period in time (however long it takes these damn kids to be more independent).

So my outlet for the time being is nice cars and posting rants on Bimmerpost

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Very well said. And I think often times to implement this line of thinking requires a lot of convincing of the spouse if perception of childcare responsibilities are not on the same page. While many of those stresses related to childcare will still be there, a big part of it is just difference of opinion - my wife doesn't WANT to spend thousands in childcare and take the kids to a healthcare specialist at any sign of something being outside of normal parameters - she just feels like she HAS to because that's what you're supposed to do. Some of it is even genetic. I don't suffer from anxiety at all - but my wife's entire family has some serious issues with it. And that translates into how she approaches childcare - everything not 100% normal is cause for concern.

All this being said - I go along with a lot of it because I love my kids, I love my wife, and keeping the family intact and as happy as possible is worth more to me than having my way over the course of a temporary period in time (however long it takes these damn kids to be more independent).

So my outlet for the time being is nice cars and posting rants on Bimmerpost

Maybe your wife will get over it as they get older, realizing they won't break with every little fall, or cold, or ailment they get.

We were a lot more lax with our second child, understanding that they are pretty durable, and didn't have to fret over everything.

We also had a lot of activities for our kids but we made it clear that what we want, as adults, matters just as much. Gotta find that balance.

[vbb]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

she just feels like she HAS to because that's what you're supposed to do.

There it is. And to that, I respond "says who?"

There has been a movement in the last 20 or so years where opinions on good parenting have taken a weird turn. A lot of these new "societal norms" don't make any sense, don't make healthier and happier children and don't create more responsible, self-sufficient adults. 20 years ago if your kid was smart, they enrolled in some gifted services and perhaps got a scholarship to a good school. Now, they start in 1st grade with specialized tutoring and test prep at the direction of their parents and spend their middle and high school chasing whatever is needed to be done to get into the "best school." And in the upper middle class world, if little Johnny isn't in all AP classes, playing the cello, rowing crew and volunteering at the local soup kitchen, then what are you even doing as a parent? 20 years ago, if your kid was good at sports, she played sports. Now, she needs private instruction, camps, travel, and year round practices just to be competitive. Don't even get me started on all the new food allergies and sensitivities that every kid has. You can't even make your kid a PB&J sandwich because some kid 2 classes over has a peanut allergy. I'm not saying we ignore anaphylaxis...but not every kid is going to suffer greatly because their arm itches.

Who created these rules? Are we better because of it?

I swear it's THAT kind of pressure that parents place on themselves that is totally unrealistic and can erode their marriages, their finances and their happiness... all for what end?

Whew, you've got me going now...lol!

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Maybe your wife will get over it as they get older, realizing they won't break with every little fall, or cold, or ailment they get.

We were a lot more lax with our second child, understanding that they are pretty durable, and didn't have to fret over everything.

We also had a lot of activities for our kids but we made it clear that what we want, as adults, matters just as much. Gotta find that balance.

She'll find new things to worry about That's just how it is.

What exacerbated things for her was that both kids were born small. Daughter was 5lbs 12oz and son was 6lbs 2oz. So there were a few scares during both pregnancies. On top of that daughter had colic throughout much of her first year which was just an absolute nightmare. Son is much more chill and is generally a super happy baby, but he's got other issues... he's below the 1 percentile for his weight so he's a very small 8 month old, and all his issues with jaundice early on, now eczema and random allergic reactions that we can't quite diagnose because of his age. Mix all these issues with generalized anxiety and that sort of explains my wife's view on childcare. Left up to me I'd simply say - they'll survive and grow out of it.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by vbb

There it is. And to that, I respond "says who?"

There has been a movement in the last 20 or so years where opinions on good parenting have taken a weird turn. A lot of these new "societal norms" don't make any sense, don't make healthier and happier children and don't create more responsible, self-sufficient adults. 20 years ago if your kid was smart, they enrolled in some gifted services and perhaps got a scholarship to a good school. Now, they start in 1st grade with specialized tutoring and test prep at the direction of their parents and spend their middle and high school chasing whatever is needed to be done to get into the "best school." And in the upper middle class world, if little Johnny isn't in all AP classes, playing the cello, rowing crew and volunteering at the local soup kitchen, then what are you even doing as a parent? 20 years ago, if your kid was good at sports, she played sports. Now, she needs private instruction, camps, travel, and year round practices just to be competitive. Don't even get me started on all the new food allergies and sensitivities that every kid has. You can't even make your kid a PB&J sandwich because some kid 2 classes over has a peanut allergy. I'm not saying we ignore anaphylaxis...but not every kid is going to suffer greatly because their arm itches.

Who created these rules? Are we better because of it?

I swear it's THAT kind of pressure that parents place on themselves that is totally unrealistic and can erode their marriages, their finances and their happiness... all for what end?

Whew, you've got me going now...lol!

Yeah... says society unfortunately. So now it's a feeling of - well if I don't do these things, will my child fall behind? I usually respond to that and point to myself and say - look, I grew up poor, went to shit public schools, worked part time jobs throughout higher education - you CAN be successful without all this extra crap.

Oh well... it's just temporary I tell myself

[vbb]

Yeah, I know it's society telling us all of these things. It's hard not to get caught up in it. But I try not to. I was like you. Grew up poor, went to sub standard public schools and turned out ok. My kids are growing up way differently than I did. But I haven't bought in to all of the new societal norms, because I think many of them do more harm than good. Thankfully my wife mostly agrees. Mostly, lol.

[Alfisti]

I'll say it again, modern women are fucking wound tight man. Worst case scenario doomsdayers with no concept of risk/reward. Fed by social media and a constant stream of "worse case scenario" cases and honestly, they're a fucking mess.

Even simple shit has become incredibly complicated with sleep trainers, dieticians, blah blah fucking blah. Putting the kids to bed, my wife and her sister took a SOLID hour to put toddlers to bed, like fucking what? Took me 20 minutes including bath etc. They have complicated parenting and turned it into a chore, combine that with a lack of coping skills and it falls on the man.

BTW, private school before middle school is a bit asinine imho.

[tranquility]

Ok, since we're getting so srs here, my question is for ppl who are having some misgivings about child-raising: if you could magically snap your fingers and turn back time to when you were just a couple, would you? What do you think your spouse would choose? (Ofc, no one would know you made this decision either way and your kid(s) wouldn't 'die', they just never existed.)

[ASAP]

oh jeez lol... i think many people here should just try a puppy first

[rebekahb]

Haha yeah, the shelters need lots of people to foster.

I do have to say I appreciate the honesty. Not many people are willing to admit those things.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Ok, since we're getting so srs here, my question is for ppl who are having some misgivings about child-raising: if you could magically snap your fingers and turn back time to when you were just a couple, would you? What do you think your spouse would choose? (Ofc, no one would know you made this decision either way and your kid(s) wouldn't 'die', they just never existed.)

Yes but I would know what to look for in a mate this time. I'd kill for more personal time but feel it may get regretful quickly with no kids.

[vbb]

Yeah, it took 22+ pages, but this thread really starting diving into some true unpopular opinions when it came to the children discussion. To think, people were talking about pineapple on pizza when this thread started, lol.

[vbb]

To offer some hope to wtwo3 though, it really does get better when the kids get a little older and are more self-sufficient and also much more interesting as they start to develop complex thought, senses of humor and other things that are more relatable. I think you're living through what a lot of us did when our children were young--you've been told all your life this was the best thing in the world and all you can see is the stress and the overwhelming change. It does get better, and I would presume your wife will mellow a little bit. Just try not to fall into the societal traps where you're chasing a bunch of things you and your kids don't even care about simply because you're afraid of falling behind on some sort of race to success.