Still want an EV? (NO POLITICS)

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Why, what could possibly go wrong?

[Sedoy]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

I did not watch the video. I wonder how much he saved/lost using gasoline cost savings, electrical cost, new battery. He probably still came out ahead

Let's do some math. Kim Java lives in Georgia now, so we will assume her friend is local and use Georgia prices. What's known:

• Tesla Model 3 Standard Plus - 52.4 kWh Battery ~ 240 Miles @ 100%
  
• Tesla supercharges Rate in Georgia ~ 0.27 $/kWh
• Tesla supercharger losses and battery preconditioning ~ 12% Loss
• Average battery degradation ~ 6% Loss
• Gas price in Georgia ~ 2.907 $/Gal

Tesla Model 3:
Total energy used = 125K miles / (240 miles/kWh * 0.88 * 0.94) * 52.4 kWh = 32,992.83 kWh
Total price = 32,992.83 kWh * 0.27 $/kWh = $8,908.06

Toyota Camry (assuming 4-cyl. 34 combined MPG by EPA)

Total price = 125K miles / 34 MPG * 2.907 $/Gal = $10,687.5

So he saved a whopping $1,779.44 driving a Model 3 (2020 MSRP $39,190) vs a Camry (2020 $24,970 MSRP).

Not very smart indeed...

[Tejas1836]

I knew someone would crunch those numbers

[E30Fever]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Ouch. I really enjoy Savage Geese. I find their reviews pretty honest, and this one doesn't make the Mustang MachE very appealing.

Yeah it’s pretty damning. Savage Geese just doesn’t come across as a sellout so it feels like a legitimate critique

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Interesting video I ran across. The guy decided to use his Model 3 for ride sharing. Said the operating costs were much cheaper than his ICE Camry. He put over 100k miles on his Model 3 in a year with having to fast charge his car twice a day. He said after the battery crossed 100k miles in usage the range fell off the cliff. It forced him to have to pay $9k for a "new" battery. He speculates the "new" battery Tesla installed is actually a refurb because the estimated max range on 100% charge of the "new" battery falls short of a brand new car. In addition, Tesla is only providing a one year warranty on the battery. The speculation is the numerous fast charging he subjected the battery to and the fact he charged the battery up to 90 to 100% each time. He says now he charges at home and only charges the "new" battery to 80%.

While this is might be an extreme case that most people will never see, it foreshadows the stupidity of forcing commercial haulers to go EV.

But even after all of this, the guy still worships at the church of Tesla.

Certainly on a hiding to nothing with his 'refurbed' not new battery with the paltry one year guarantee.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Interesting video I ran across. The guy decided to use his Model 3 for ride sharing. Said the operating costs were much cheaper than his ICE Camry. He put over 100k miles on his Model 3 in a year with having to fast charge his car twice a day. He said after the battery crossed 100k miles in usage the range fell off the cliff. It forced him to have to pay $9k for a "new" battery. He speculates the "new" battery Tesla installed is actually a refurb because the estimated max range on 100% charge of the "new" battery falls short of a brand new car. In addition, Tesla is only providing a one year warranty on the battery. The speculation is the numerous fast charging he subjected the battery to and the fact he charged the battery up to 90 to 100% each time. He says now he charges at home and only charges the "new" battery to 80%.

While this is might be an extreme case that most people will never see, it foreshadows the stupidity of forcing commercial haulers to go EV.

But even after all of this, the guy still worships at the church of Tesla.

The math doesn't work for me. This is based on my previous daily commute of 80 miles to Herndon, which took about 1:45 per trip. My average MPH per tank was between 45 to 52 depending on traffic.

Rough numbers, but if the Uber driver drove 120,000/year, that's 10,000 miles a month, or 417 miles a day if he drove 24 days a month (6 days a week). Using 12 hours a day seat time that works out to 35 miles per hour average. That's 35 MPH constant speed for 12 hours a day. No 2x super charger time and no waiting for a fare call. No way an Uber driver has no down time and can drive in any major US city at a constant 35 MPH.

Bump the hours driven to 16 per day, that's an average 26 MPH. Closer to reality in big city driving. But still 26 MPH for 16 hours a day, 6 days a week. Then add in charging time and wait time between fares?

Nah.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The math doesn't work for me.

It's never about facts these days It's about clicks.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The math doesn't work for me. This is based on my previous daily commute of 80 miles to Herndon, which took about 1:45 per trip. My average MPH per tank was between 45 to 52 depending on traffic.

Rough numbers, but if the Uber driver drove 120,000/year, that's 10,000 miles a month, or 417 miles a day if he drove 24 days a month (6 days a week). Using 12 hours a day seat time that works out to 35 miles per hour average. That's 35 MPH constant speed for 12 hours a day. No 2x super charger time and no waiting for a fare call. No way an Uber driver has no down time and can drive in any major US city at a constant 35 MPH.

Bump the hours driven to 16 per day, that's an average 26 MPH. Closer to reality in big city driving. But still 26 MPH for 16 hours a day, 6 days a week. Then add in charging time and wait time between fares?

Nah.

I didn't buy the fact that operating his Model 3 would show any savings over his Camry. Heck, Hertz is seeing this now.

What I took from this situation is how even the most devout EV supporter admitted that there were issues with charging/range after 100k miles. And I also found it interesting that the "new" battery Tesla installed into his Model 3 didn't provide the same range as a full up new Model 3 rolling off the delivery truck and that Tesla would only provide a meager one year warranty.

Hence my statement at the end saying the guy still worships at the church of Tesla. Really drives home the cultish mindset that these people have.

[Car-Addicted]

Google’s 100% Electric Bus Loses Power, Causes Mayhem on San Francisco Slope
Google's Electric Bus Loses Power on Uphill Climb, Rolls Backward According to Newton's Law, Colliding with 9 vehicles on the way down. Castro Neighborhood.

https://twitter.com/darren_stallcup/...00-electric%2F

"The San Francisco Municipal Transit Authority (SFMTA) passed a resolution in 2018 to convert its bus fleet to 100% electric by 2035. The resolution requires SFMTA to begin purchasing 100% battery-electric buses (BEBs) starting by 2025."

What could possibly go wrong?

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Google’s 100% Electric Bus Loses Power, Causes Mayhem on San Francisco Slope
Google's Electric Bus Loses Power on Uphill Climb, Rolls Backward According to Newton's Law, Colliding with 9 vehicles on the way down. Castro Neighborhood.

https://twitter.com/darren_stallcup/...00-electric%2F

"The San Francisco Municipal Transit Authority (SFMTA) passed a resolution in 2018 to convert its bus fleet to 100% electric by 2035. The resolution requires SFMTA to begin purchasing 100% battery-electric buses (BEBs) starting by 2025."

What could possibly go wrong?

Just part of the San Fran shitshow.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Just part of the San Fran shitshow.

Not open to new technologies that cost twice as much and double the probability of killing me.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

I didn't buy the fact that operating his Model 3 would show any savings over his Camry. Heck, Hertz is seeing this now.

What I took from this situation is how even the most devout EV supporter admitted that there were issues with charging/range after 100k miles. And I also found it interesting that the "new" battery Tesla installed into his Model 3 didn't provide the same range as a full up new Model 3 rolling off the delivery truck and that Tesla would only provide a meager one year warranty.

Hence my statement at the end saying the guy still worships at the church of Tesla. Really drives home the cultish mindset that these people have.

Yes, cult; when the person can't see it for what it really is.

Example. On an EV forum thread I read this morning. The EV OP wrote with pride about his "Go-box". A Pelican case full of 5 or 6 plug adapters so he could plug his EV in practically anywhere, hotels, RV parks, amusement rides, private garages with welding circuits. Half a phone page of text on how great it was, his collection of plug adapters. It allows him to make numerous long distance trips across this great land of ours.

My thought was, jeeze dude, you all talk about the ease of EV ownership and charging, but you carry $500 of adapters in a Pelican case. I use a gasoline pump nozzle, anywhere in the USA. It's universal and ubiquitous.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Not open to new technologies that cost twice as much and double the probability of killing me.

Like brakes?

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Yes, cult; when the person can't see it for what it really is.

Example. On an EV forum thread I read this morning. The EV OP wrote with pride about his "Go-box". A Pelican case full of 5 or 6 plug adapters so he could plug his EV in practically anywhere, hotels, RV parks, amusement rides, private garages with welding circuits. Half a phone page of text on how great it was, his collection of plug adapters. It allows him to make numerous long distance trips across this great land of ours.

My thought was, jeeze dude, you all talk about the ease of EV ownership and charging, but you carry $500 of adapters in a Pelican case. I use a gasoline pump nozzle, anywhere in the USA. It's universal and ubiquitous.

It's like eeny meeny miney mo, which one shall I choose today heheh

[gblansten]

I enjoyed driving today my cult car that rolls back and kills people and burns to the ground. And while I have only ever used the Nema 14-50 to charge it in my garage and don't have a Pelican bag it is still immensely fun to run it around town. I will note that all ASPCA guidelines were followed and no animals were harmed on the way to work today.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I enjoyed driving today my cult car that rolls back and kills people and burns to the ground. And while I have only ever used the Nema 14-50 to charge it in my garage and don't have a Pelican bag it is still immensely fun to run it around town. I will note that all ASPCA guidelines were followed and no animals were harmed on the way to work today.

Cool. How do you think it might work for you if you didn’t have a garage to park it in out of the elements and charge it? Say if you lived in Chicago and it was January and you only had street parking like at least half the cars in Chicago? Just curious about your thoughts on that situation.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Cool. How do you think it might work for you if you didn’t have a garage to park it in out of the elements and charge it? Say if you lived in Chicago and it was January and you only had street parking like at least half the cars in Chicago? Just curious about your thoughts on that situation.

I have commented previously on that. I don't need or desire to solve Chicago's problems.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I enjoyed driving today my cult car that rolls back and kills people and burns to the ground. And while I have only ever used the Nema 14-50 to charge it in my garage and don't have a Pelican bag it is still immensely fun to run it around town.

I'm pleased for you. Your ability to ignore the environmental damage that is done in the construction and recycling of your EV is impressive. Maybe you will get a Christmas card from child labors in Democratic Republic of the Congo Cobalt mines when they get time to write.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

I'm pleased for you. Your ability to ignore the environmental damage that is done in the construction and recycling of your EV is impressive. Maybe you will get a Christmas card from child labors in Democratic Republic of the Congo Cobalt mines when they get time to write.

"As a reaction to the issues with artisanal cobalt mining in DR Congo a number of cobalt suppliers and their customers have formed the Fair Cobalt Alliance (FCA) which aims to end the use of child labor and to improve the working conditions of cobalt mining and processing in the DR Congo. Members of FCA include Zhejiang Huayou Cobalt, Sono Motors, the Responsible Cobalt Initiative, Fairphone, Glencore and Tesla, Inc.[1][2]

[1]"Tesla joins "Fair Cobalt Alliance" to improve DRC artisanal mining". mining-technology.com. September 8, 2020. Retrieved September 26, 2020.
[2]Klender, Joey (September 8, 2020). "Tesla joins Fair Cobalt Alliance in support of moral mining efforts". teslarati.com. Retrieved September 26, 2020."

wikipedia

https://www.faircobaltalliance.org/

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I have commented previously on that. I don't need or desire to solve Chicago's problems.

Okay, then. You realize Chicago isn’t by any stretch of the imagination the only large U.S. city that is significantly inner city with roughly 50% street parking, right ? That’s one of the biggest issues for these kinds of cities. Winter is just a secondary issue. These issues are in no way “Chicago problems”.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by gblansten

"As a reaction to the issues with artisanal cobalt mining in DR Congo a number of cobalt suppliers and their customers have formed the Fair Cobalt Alliance (FCA) which aims to end the use of child labor and to improve the working conditions of cobalt mining and processing in the DR Congo. Members of FCA include Zhejiang Huayou Cobalt, Sono Motors, the Responsible Cobalt Initiative, Fairphone, Glencore and Tesla, Inc.[1][2]

[1]"Tesla joins "Fair Cobalt Alliance" to improve DRC artisanal mining". mining-technology.com. September 8, 2020. Retrieved September 26, 2020.
[2]Klender, Joey (September 8, 2020). "Tesla joins Fair Cobalt Alliance in support of moral mining efforts". teslarati.com. Retrieved September 26, 2020."

wikipedia

https://www.faircobaltalliance.org/

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Okay, then. You realize Chicago isn’t by any stretch of the imagination the only large U.S. city that is significantly inner city with roughly 50% street parking, right ? That’s one of the biggest issues for these kinds of cities. Winter is just a secondary issue. These issues are in no way “Chicago problems”.

This topic has arisen many many times and I have discussed it earlier. I just don't want to get recursive and keep looping back on the same nuances over and over again.