Navy thread

[Llarry]

The U.S. Navy operated icebreakers for years before transferring them to the U.S. Coast Guard.

Here are three USN icebreakers -- the USS Burton Island (AGB 1), the USS Atka (AGB 3) and the USS Glacier (AGB 4) -- combining their efforts to move an iceberg out of the channel at McMurdo Sound in Antarctica. McMurdo Station is the largest U.S. station in Antarctica.

A bit more on Navy icebreakers... Navy icebreakers were armed with 1940s-era guns (5" and 3" guns) -- see the attached photo of the Glacier -- and the armament was ultimately removed after transfer to the Coast Guard. Given the global competition for resources etc., one could make a case for more icebreakers. The U.S. Coast Guard is the obvious choice for operating these ships but is perpetually underfunded. A class of icebreakers for the Coast Guard with the option of an armed Navy icebreaker sister would make sense to me but likely would not survive the budget process.

[Llarry]

Icebreaker status: The U.S. Coast Guard has a single active icebreaker, the Healy (WAGB 20), along with two aging Polar class icebreakers completed in 1976-78 that have become basically unusable due to maintenance and reliability issues. Shameful!

The good news is that a class of three Polar Security Cutters (large icebreakers) has been authorized to restore USCG icebreaking capabilities. The first of class has been delayed by a number of factors and is expected to enter service in 2029. Given budget realities, it remains to be seen whether all three will be built and placed in service.

The new ships will be much larger than the current WAGBs: 460 feet long with an 88-foot beam and displacing 23,000 tons. They will be lightly armed with 30mm and .50 cal (12.7mm) guns and have accommodations for 186 crew and scientists. The lead ship will be named Polar Sentinel (WMSP 21); all three are planned to be homeported in Seattle, Washington.

The U.S. Coast Guard is an armed service that is a component of the Department of Homeland Security. In times of national emergency, all or part can be transferred to the Navy. The last time that happened was World War II.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by Llarry

...
Here are three USN icebreakers -- the USS Burton Island (AGB 1), the USS Atka (AGB 3) and the USS Glacier (AGB 4) -- combining their efforts to move an iceberg out of the channel at McMurdo Sound in Antarctica. McMurdo Station is the largest U.S. station in Antarctica...

The question is...

Did it work?

[Llarry]

A problem with close-in weapons systems (CIWS) is that basic physics -- the amount of energy in an incoming missile at transonic or supersonic speed versus the amount of energy in the shells of the CIWS -- generally means that even a CIWS that performs well will break up the attacking missile but the debris from the missile may very well damage the ship.

The Russian Navy has (partially?) addressed the problem by doubling up the CIWS gun. The AK-630 has a rate of fire of 6,000 rounds/minute. The newer AK-630M2 (photo) has two sets of rotating barrel guns with a total rate of fire of 10,000 rounds/minute. Presumably the incoming missile will be impacted by more weight of fire and less debris will hit the target ship.

[Llarry]

In May of 1962, the U.S. Navy was ready to test the new ASROC (Anti-Submarine Rocket). The chosen location was well off the California coast and the USS Agerholm (DD 825), an updated WWII era destroyer that had been fitted with an ASROC launcher, was chosen to conduct the test. The ASROC was fitted with a 10-kiloton nuclear warhead.

The attached photo shows the massive explosion. This was the only live shot of the ASROC nuclear warhead. Later an alternative payload was developed that consisted of a homing torpedo. The nuclear warhead option was withdrawn under the direction of the President at the end of the Cold War. The ASROC continues in service (with torpedo) today.

[Llarry]

The U.S. Army and Navy have anchored the floating pier on the coast of Gaza to provide another entry point for humanitarian aid, which should start arriving soon.

While I hope this is successful, I admit to a bad feeling about this. Does the Mediterranean Sea have storms? Are there bad actors in the area who would like to attack this floating pier and thereby draw the U.S. into the conflict? I hope my feelings are misplaced.

[Llarry]

In 1924 an inspection revealed that the sailing frigate USS Constitution -- the oldest Navy ship in commission -- was in terrible shape and falling apart. Fund-raising efforts were begun to restore the historic ship. In the end, Congress allocated funds as well and the Constitution was rebuilt during 1927-1931. Upon completion of the project, the ship was sent on a national tour. That tour included a passage through the Panama Canal and visits to the Pacific coast. Here's a photo of the Constitution in the Canal.

Depending on the current material condition of the frigate, perhaps it is time for another national tour...

[Llarry]

The final U.S. Navy battleships -- the Iowa class built during World War II -- were built with a beam just narrow enough to fit through the Panama Canal. But with a margin of just a few inches on each side.

Here is a photo of the USS Iowa (BB 61) in the Panama Canal. It's a tight fit!

The capability to move a warship from one ocean to another rapidly is a big plus. Unfortunately, modern aircraft carriers are so large that keeping the beam under 110 feet has proved impossible. With their 130+ foot beam, carriers must take the long route to transfer between oceans.

[Llarry]

Inventor John Holland started submarine design studies in the 1870s. In 1900, the U.S. Navy bought one of his boats -- really a minisub -- and commissioned it as the USS Holland (SS-1).

The Holland was armed with a single 18-inch torpedo and a pneumatic dynamite gun. It had a crew of six. Other particulars can be found in the Wikipedia article.

Holland was decommissioned in 1905.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Holland_(SS-1)

I served (on temporary duty) on submarines, but there is NO WAY you could get me on something like this!

[Llarry]

It's inefficient for warships to pull into port every time they need fuel, weapons, food or general cargo and so the procedure of underway replenishment was developed over the years.

The U.S. Navy has three distinct types of ships devoted to underway replenishment (unrep, as it is called), all operated by the Military Sealift Command (MSC) and crewed mostly by civilian mariners, who are U.S. government employees:
-- Fast Combat Support Ships (T-AOEs). There are just two T-AOEs active. Two others were retired early as an economy measure. These are large and fast multiproduct ships that can supply fuel and weapons to ships at sea.
-- Oilers, also referred to as Fleet Oilers (T-AOs). T-AOs of two classes are active, including a number of ships put into service in the 1980s and 1990s, as well as a new class put into service beginning in 2022. The T-AOs primarily supply fuel to the fleet.
-- Ammunition cargo ships (T-AKE). These 14 ships entered service in 2006-2012 and supply dry cargo as well as a limited amount of fuel, refrigerated food stores, etc. Generally speaking, a T-AO and a T-AKE together are considered to have the capability of a T-AOE, except for speed.

The ships:
1) USNS Supply and USNS Arctic are both T-AOEs. They have the same propulsion system as a destroyer: 4 gas turbines with 105,000 hp, providing a max speed of 26 knots. They can carry 177,000 barrels (bbl) of Diesel and aviation fuel and over 2,000 tons of ammunition. They have two large hangars and operate two MH-60S helicopters for vertical replenishment (vertrep) duties. They can transfer fuel to two ships (one on each side) simultaneously. They were originally commissioned Navy-manned ships with self-defense weapons and large crews; they were transferred to the MSC as an economy measure. They have crews of 160 civilian mariners (civmars) and 29 Navy personnel.
2) The USNS Henry J. Kaiser (T-AO 187) class is the the older of the two oiler classes in service, having entered service in 1986-1996. The15 ships of this class are being retired as newer oilers join the MSC. They carry 180,000 bbl of fuels. While they have a helicopter deck, they do not have assigned aircraft.
3) The USNS John Lewis (T-AO 205) class is currently being built to replace the Kaisers; only several have entered service with more under construction. Like the earlier T-AOs they are good for 20 knots with Diesel power, which does not allow them to keep up with carrier strike groups. They have a fuel capacity of 162,000 bbl and have a helo deck, but no assigned aircraft. The ships have a crew of 99 civmars.
4) The USNS Lewis and Clark (T-AKE 1) class of ammunition cargo ships supplements the oilers with dry and refrigerated stores, weapons and also carry a limited amount (18,000 bbl) of fuels. Like the T-AOEs, they have helo decks and hangars and normally operate two MH-60S helicopters for vertrep. They have a Diesel-electric propulsion system and a max speed of 20 knots. The crews have 124 civmars and 11 Navy personnel.

The T-AOEs were built to military standards, while the others were built to civilian standards that are not as sturdy. However, all ships reserve space, weight and power for self-defense weapons; in a wartime environment they would presumably be supplemented with additional Navy crew to operate these weapons.

A general note on Military Sealift Command ships: MSC ships are prefixed as United States Naval Ship (USNS) and have stripes on the stack that identify them as MSC. Commissioned Navy ships are prefixed as United States Ships (USS) and do not have the stripes.

[KurtsM5]

I'm ex Navy-crypto ET2, served in Reagan's Navy. 1981-1986, aboard USS Shreveport LPD-12, she looked like the LaSalle pictured early in this thread but was flag configured, had an extra deck topside. We set a record Suez Canal transit in 1984, many years later anothe CO tried to break our record and wrecked the hell out of her. Had to get towed to Israel to repair the props and shafts. THAT's funny! I went ashore in Beirut as part of the bomb investigation team. Hezbollah blew up the Embassy Annex(They blew up the Embassy Marine barracks the year before, 1983.)

EDIT---Cool story, when we were sitting off Beirut, our SPS-40 air search radar antenna motor died. While waiting for a replacement to be flown in from Israel, the JFK task force sent the USS Semmes DDG-18 over to babysit us. Decades later I was working at an FM station tower, and it turned out the transmitter engineer was on the Semmes then. Small world stuff. Here's me up the mast swapping the motor out.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by KurtsM5

I'm ex Navy-crypto ET2, served in Reagan's Navy. 1981-1986, aboard USS Shreveport LPD-12....

Another LPD sailor! Mine was the Denver LPD-9; you can imagine the unauthorized, unofficial, unflattering nickname the ship had. We called the ET's area of combat Sleepy Hollow . Unfortunately, I was in Carter's Navy; not a good time to be in the service.

[Llarry]

Readers of the Navy thread may recall that I've posted about the USN's Aegis missile destroyers a couple of times. I have not posted about the small class of even larger (cruiser-size) DDGs, the Zumwalt class "stealth" DDGs.

The Zumwalt class DDGs were designed to emphasize land attack, with vertical launch missile tubes and two 155mm guns hidden for stealth in covers in front of the ship's superstructure. Unfortunately, the advanced ammunition for the guns never materialized and so now the guns are to be removed and replaced by four 87-inch diameter missile launch modules, each of which will fire three hypersonic glide conventional missiles.

The Zumwalt class DDGs are far larger than the Aegis DDGs: 610 feet long with a displacement of almost 16,000 tons. A lot of attention was paid to reducing the size of the crew, which numbers 147 sailors (plus 28 in a helicopter detachment if embarked).

It has taken a long time to get these ships operational; the third and final ship of the class is not yet commissioned. Far more ships were planned but cost overruns doomed the program.

The photos speak for themselves; this is a very distinctive-looking ship!

[Llarry]

In the 1970s, Iran ordered four U.S.-built missile destroyers based on the U.S. Navy Spruance class destroyers, but with upgrades. When the Islamic Republic came into power, the ships were partially built and suddenly homeless. The USN put them into service as DDG 993-996; they were excellent ships with significant improvements in capability over the large number of Spruance DDs entering service. They were basically the same as AEGIS cruisers but without the SPY-1 AEGIS combat system.

The class was known as the Kidd class after the lead ship, the USS Kidd (DDG 993) but were informally referred to in the USN as the "Khomeini class" in view of the procurement history. These four DDGs left service in 1998-99 as a post-Cold War economy move and found new homes in the Republic of China Navy in Taiwan., where they continue in service as DDGs 1802-1805.

Here are a couple of shots of two of the Taiwanese DDGs in port in June 2024.

Compared to the now-retired USN Spruance class DDs, they have missile launchers forward and aft, an SPS-48 3-D radar antenna visible (square shape), three missile fire control radar dishes, etc. They are the most capable warships in the ROCN.

[Llarry]

An unusual view of a nuclear-powered submarine running at considerable speed on the surface. The sheer power impresses me -- that's a lot of steel churning up the ocean.

[KurtsM5]

Originally Posted by Llarry

A problem with close-in weapons systems (CIWS) is that basic physics -- the amount of energy in an incoming missile at transonic or supersonic speed versus the amount of energy in the shells of the CIWS -- generally means that even a CIWS that performs well will break up the attacking missile but the debris from the missile may very well damage the ship.

The Russian Navy has (partially?) addressed the problem by doubling up the CIWS gun. The AK-630 has a rate of fire of 6,000 rounds/minute. The newer AK-630M2 (photo) has two sets of rotating barrel guns with a total rate of fire of 10,000 rounds/minute. Presumably the incoming missile will be impacted by more weight of fire and less debris will hit the target ship.

I'll bet their search and tracking radars are still crap.

My ship had a CIWS mount right on top of the ET shack. Good grief that thing was loud.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by Llarry

Readers of the Navy thread may recall that I've posted about the USN's Aegis missile destroyers a couple of times. I have not posted about the small class of even larger (cruiser-size) DDGs, the Zumwalt class "stealth" DDGs.

The Zumwalt class DDGs were designed to emphasize land attack, with vertical launch missile tubes and two 155mm guns hidden for stealth in covers in front of the ship's superstructure. Unfortunately, the advanced ammunition for the guns never materialized and so now the guns are to be removed and replaced by four 87-inch diameter missile launch modules, each of which will fire three hypersonic glide conventional missiles.

The Zumwalt class DDGs are far larger than the Aegis DDGs: 610 feet long with a displacement of almost 16,000 tons. A lot of attention was paid to reducing the size of the crew, which numbers 147 sailors (plus 28 in a helicopter detachment if embarked).

It has taken a long time to get these ships operational; the third and final ship of the class is not yet commissioned. Far more ships were planned but cost overruns doomed the program.

The photos speak for themselves; this is a very distinctive-looking ship!

Just looked a little closer at this class. Just where does one go outside for fresh air when not on watch? I used to hangout on the weather deck outside CIC on the O2 level. Even ventured up to the Signal Bridge occasionally.

[billnchristy]

Originally Posted by KurtsM5

I'll bet their search and tracking radars are still crap.

My ship had a CIWS mount right on top of the ET shack. Good grief that thing was loud.

Like a metallic fart

[billnchristy]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

Just looked a little closer at this class. Just where does one go outside for fresh air when not on watch? I used to hangout on the weather deck outside CIC on the O2 level. Even ventured up to the Signal Bridge occasionally.

I assume the front deck where the metal triangle thingees are or the helo deck.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by billnchristy

I assume the front deck where the metal triangle thingees are or the helo deck.

Probably not; no handrails...

[Llarry]

Now THIS is Old Navy! Recruit training center Great Lakes 1940. Note the leggings, the triced-up hammocks, etc. Not all of these sailors would survive the war that came in 1941; I suspect a number of them would be Chief Petty Officers by war's end in 1945.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by Llarry

Now THIS is Old Navy! Recruit training center Great Lakes 1940. Note the leggings, the triced-up hammocks, etc. Not all of these sailors would survive the war that came in 1941; I suspect a number of them would be Chief Petty Officers by war's end in 1945.

Speaking of....

How many recognize this torture device?