Still want an EV? (NO POLITICS)

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Canuck335

I am not. What part of “manufacturers make more money on EVs” did you not understand?

So Rivian Automotive loses an average of $33,000 for every truck it sells.
Ford Loses Nearly $60,000 for Every Electric Vehicle Sold.
Tesla's Profits Are Not From Selling Cars
Tesla booked a whopping $1.58 billion of revenue from selling regulatory credits last year, more than the previous three years combined. Tesla's net income of $721 million in 2020 turns into a substantial loss if those regulatory credit sales are backed out.

ICE ICE Baby

[Car-Addicted]

What is a regulatory credit?

Environmental emissions programs around the world, such as the Zero Emissions Vehicle (ZEV) program in California, give out credits to automakers that produce and sell electric vehicles.
Since Tesla produces nothing but EVs, the company racks up way more credits than it needs to meet the minimum regulatory requirements, so it turns around and sells the excess credits to other automakers so that they can avoid penalties.
Since Tesla receives these regulatory credits for free, they're able to sell them at 100% profit margins, which boosts the company’s overall margins.
So government largess is responsible for Tesla's profit. Considering the needs of car companies for regulatory credits is reduced ever year and the abilities of governments in ability to keep funding the Green Grift this is not a long term strategy.

ICE ICE Baby!

[Canuck335]

Originally Posted by gblansten

So far I believe Tesla and BYD are the only one's making a profit on per unit sales. Everyone else is hemorrhaging cash per car and may not stay alive long enough to make the ICE to EV transition. Ford, cough, Ford.

We are still in the early adopters phase of EV’s.
The usual GM, Fords, etc haven’t got their price points low enough to reflect the eventual low cost of volume production.
BMW on the other is leading the way, followed by the other German luxury brands.

Another Quarter, Another Record: EV Sales in the U.S. Surpass 300,000
https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-in...2023-ev-sales/

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Canuck335

I don’t think it has to do idealism any more.
The manufacturers see a path to greater profits with EV’s. They’re cheaper to design and build, and they can charge the same if not more money for them.
Governments are just riding the coattails of this, claiming they’re doing something about global warming.

You may still be able to buy a ICE car in 2035, but it will be expensive and impractical to own. Gas stations will be scarce, gas will be expensive, there will be fewer mechanics willing and able to work on the car, etc.

The idea that EV are less expensive to design and build is just internet myth. EV batteries are extremely expensive to design and manufacture. EV motors have less parts than an equivalent ICE, but the EV battery component parts easily make up the difference.

Tesla has none of the corporate costs associated with having union labor manufacturing for the past 100 years nor the legacy environmental costs (for the past 100 years) the major manufacturers have. Conversely, Tesla get free money from the Govenment in the form of carbon credits, which is Monopoly money, just made up out of thin air (i.e. legislation/Executive Orders).

[Canuck335]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

What is a regulatory credit?

Environmental emissions programs around the world, such as the Zero Emissions Vehicle (ZEV) program in California, give out credits to automakers that produce and sell electric vehicles.
Since Tesla produces nothing but EVs, the company racks up way more credits than it needs to meet the minimum regulatory requirements, so it turns around and sells the excess credits to other automakers so that they can avoid penalties.
Since Tesla receives these regulatory credits for free, they're able to sell them at 100% profit margins, which boosts the company’s overall margins.
So government largess is responsible for Tesla's profit. Considering the needs of car companies for regulatory credits is reduced ever year and the abilities of governments in ability to keep funding the Green Grift this is not a long term strategy.

ICE ICE Baby!

“Calculating the cost of U.S. subsidies for the fossil fuel industry is complex because the incentives stretch across the U.S. tax code, but estimates range from $10 to $50 billion per year.”

https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...es-2023-03-09/

[Canuck335]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The idea that EV are less expensive to design and build is just internet myth. EV batteries are extremely expensive to design and manufacture. EV motors have less parts than an equivalent ICE, but the EV battery component parts easily make up the difference.

Tesla has none of the corporate costs associated with having union labor manufacturing for the past 100 years nor the legacy environmental costs (for the past 100 years) the major manufacturers have. Conversely, Tesla get free money from the Govenment in the form of carbon credits, which is Monopoly money, just made up out of thin air (i.e. legislation/Executive Orders).

It’s the labour costs that are lower..
Go look up the reasons behind the recent strikes in the automotive industry.

As for money from thin air, the fossil fuel industry continues to be subsidized by 10’s of billions of dollars; look at my previous post.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Canuck335

It’s the labour costs that are lower..
Go look up the reasons behind the recent strikes in the automotive industry.

As for money from thin air, the fossil fuel industry continues to be subsidized by 10’s of billions of dollars; look at my previous post.

What does energy tax policies have to do with the cost of vehicle manufacturing? Your argument is now going disjointed.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Canuck335

I am not. What part of “manufacturers make more money on EVs” did you not understand?

I find that hard to believe.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I find that hard to believe.

Me too.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Me too.

Two nissan 'EV' ads have been banned over here for misrepresentation and confusing the public with their 'e-Power' claims. Seems the car firm were confused themselves of how exactly their vehicle was powered
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/ca...l_desktop_home

[M3WC]

GM Delays Start Of EV Truck Production At Michigan Plant Due To Lack Of Demand

https://jalopnik.com/gm-delays-start...lan-1850934845


Ford cutting F-150 Lightning factory shift is 'emblematic' of changing EV demand

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-...153949506.html

[Milan]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

Without boomers, you wouldn't be driving that Bimmer or Camaro in a free country and Alaska would still belong to Russia.

Free country.

We have all the licenses and permits to prove it

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Milan

Free country.

We have all the licenses and permits to prove it

And the choice between the various hundred different models of vehicles that comes with it...

[M5Rick]

With sales slowing it's looking like the end of the EV dream by 2035.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

With sales slowing it's looking like the end of the EV dream by 2035.

I saw that last night. Was an interesting and balanced review. If they don't accelerate EV charging stations then EV popularity will not improve.

[R N M]

Imagine if there were no Government incentives - EV sales would be much worse.

Sadly all the automakers are switching to EVs anyway. Porsche confirmed new Cayman/Boxster are EV only.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Canuck335

It’s the labour costs that are lower..
Go look up the reasons behind the recent strikes in the automotive industry.

As for money from thin air, the fossil fuel industry continues to be subsidized by 10’s of billions of dollars; look at my previous post.

You NEED fossil fuels for EVERYTHING.
Your clothes, any products that have plastic, to heat homes.

It’s not even comparable. EV subsidies don’t benefit anyone except rich ppl leasing new iX or the MB EQ junk.

[Murf the Surf]

Whoops. 120 Toronto hybrid-converted ambulances pulled off road as precaution after failures.
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/10/...id-ambulances/

[gonzo]

.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by R N M

You NEED fossil fuels for EVERYTHING.
Your clothes, any products that have plastic, to heat homes.

It’s not even comparable. EV subsidies don’t benefit anyone except rich ppl leasing new iX or the MB EQ junk.

You're correct; not even close to comparable.

Everyone thinks oil subsidies make oil companies rich. Subsidies are just rate cuts on taxes the Govenment charges oil companies to conduct business. If the tax is higher, then the consumer just pays more for a gallon of gas or more for a product that is made from hydrocarbons, because the oil company just passes the tax cost on to the consumer.

EV tax credits only make the price of EV more competitive against the price of ICEV for the consumer, that's it. Tax credits don't reduce the cost of EV manufacturing. EV tax credits just compensate for the cost delta of building giant heavy batteries so a BEV can get at most 75% of the range of a typical ICEV (before the 5 min. refueling of ICEV vs. 60 minutes for EV).

If the government didn't incentivize the consumer to buy EV back in 2010 there would be no EV market.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by R N M

You NEED fossil fuels for EVERYTHING.
Your clothes, any products that have plastic, to heat homes.

It’s not even comparable. EV subsidies don’t benefit anyone except rich ppl leasing new iX or the MB EQ junk.

Much of an EV's parts are derived from an oil product. Where do people think plastic, paints and coatings, solvents, epoxy coatings and adhesives, and synthetic rubber come from?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Much of an EV's parts are derived from an oil product. Where do people think plastic, paints and coatings, solvents, epoxy coatings and adhesives, and synthetic rubber come from?

Soybeans and Cannabis?