F1 2024: Dutch GP - Zandvoort (Aug 25)

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

He wont answer because he knows Max is 10X the driver mediocre Ham is. Max made a 7X WDC guy look flat out unskilled when he owned him in Abu Dhabi and in the entire 2021 season despite having a slower car.

It is crazy how the RB was super slow at Zandvoort yet Max destroyed one of the faster Mclaren cars by good measure and Per was nowhere to be seen. The Max factor is certainly a real thing. No one on the grid could have put the RBR in 2nd place as Max did.

Max lost 3 times to a vastly slower Mercedes this year. And he should have lost in 21 after he was being destroyed by 40+seconds.

Max is a good driver, but he'll never be as good as Lewis.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Max lost 3 times to a vastly slower Mercedes this year. And he should have lost in 21 after he was being destroyed by 40+seconds.

Max is a good driver, but he'll never be as good as Lewis.

He's already better than Ham so that isnt even worth debating. He's a more complete drive already at 26 and still getting better.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

He's already better than Ham so that isnt even worth debating. He's a more complete drive already at 26 and still getting better.

Complete driver like ranging so hard he crashes into Lando?

Getting better by losing the last 5 races, including 2 to Hamilton? If Hamilton is so overrated, I guess Max beat no one of any significance in his career. He's in danger of losing to a mediocre driver in a slightly faster car.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by lens

Redbull has always delivered when pressure is on them, 2022 Ferrari we're dominating until TD after summer break and then RBR swung a 50 point deficit around.

Mclaren may have weak tracks ahead, and I think it's going to be singapore.

Historically, every team that were dominating, struggled in Singapore.

Mercedes, RBR, Ferrari, all when dominant during the year, showed up to Singapore and their cars were terrible there in qualifying.

I know what you mean . But this time it's with a car with a design flaw from race 1 and to close a 22 + sec. gap....
$Millions of upgrades , but the result is a downgrade and a slower car are just a waste of effort and money.
Been forced to remove all the upgrades and run again with the old stuff.
And a Mexican idiot who crashed a $4.5Million hole in the Red Bull budget cap (!)

It won't be for in this season ..

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

You do understand that he’s trolling all the VER fans and he doesn’t really believe what he says right? He’s literally using the same arguments and situations VER fans use but replacing Max with HAM?

I'm convinced he's 100% serious . But I'm pretty sure he is smoking loads of bad 5H1T.

[G30M]

a prequel to Zandvoort, only found it after the race ...

[lens]

I'm going to ignore next race and not care for the results, but I want to see McLaren in Singapore, because if they have the same problems as redbull did last year, then we absolutely know that they took the same direction the RB19 did.

Singapore for some reason kills dominate teams like Mercedes in 2015 and Redbull in 2023, I'm wondering if it has to do with Aero efficiency or something.

Monza and Baku are both straight line tracks, so McLaren may be second fastest there behind Ferrari or redbull.

[Davil]

I though that was trademarked. A little bit of trolling never goes astray.

[GuidoK]

[CMW33]

Originally Posted by Davil

I though that was trademarked. A little bit of trolling never goes astray.

Lando is lot cheekier and snarkier than he initially lets on.

[CMW33]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I know what you mean . But this time it's with a car with a design flaw from race 1 and to close a 22 + sec. gap....
$Millions of upgrades , but the result is a downgrade and a slower car are just a waste of effort and money.
Been forced to remove all the upgrades and run again with the old stuff.
And a Mexican idiot who crashed a $4.5Million hole in the Red Bull budget cap (!)

It won't be for in this season ..

RB is now experiencing what Mercedes and Ferrari's last two years of pain in terms of upgrades that turn out to be downgrades.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by CMW33

RB is now experiencing what Mercedes and Ferrari's last two years of pain in terms of upgrades that turn out to be downgrades.

RB20 is absolutely nowhere near as bad as W13, W14, F1-75 and SF-23.

With Mercedes, they were absolutely clueless in what to do with the new regulations and they’re still figuring it out.

Ferrari is not as bad Mercedes, they have the highs and lows, mostly plagued with reliability issues.

While the upgrades don’t provide the expected performance, it doesn’t set them totally backwards like Mercedes and Ferrari. Red Bull still has a competitive car, just the the fastest or more dominant. Red Bull could stop development today and it would still be better than what Mercedes and Ferrari has with each of their cars.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Complete driver like ranging so hard he crashes into Lando?

Getting better by losing the last 5 races, including 2 to Hamilton? If Hamilton is so overrated, I guess Max beat no one of any significance in his career. He's in danger of losing to a mediocre driver in a slightly faster car.

If Ham is so great why did it take him 3 years to win a race in a top tier car? In far less competitive cars Max has never gone 3 years without a win. If he is so great why did Max humiliate him in 2021 in a slower car? If he is so great, why has he never won more than 5 races in a row where Max has won 10 in a row in a car not nearly as good as the MB? Why does he not hold the record for most wins or win% in a season with a car that any unskilled driver could win in? If he is so good, why did he get beaten by a driver with 3/10 skill level in Ros? If he's so good, why in worse cars did Max win more race in the first 200 than Ham did?

Like usual you will have no response for ANY of those question. Max is a vastly more naturally skilled and talented driver who did it without having any advantage like Ham did.

Talking about Ham 'winning' two races where he only got one via a DSQ is not winning a race. Much like probably 10% of his 'wins' they were gifts by the MB needing to swap because he couldnt beat a 1/10 driver in Bot LMFAO.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

If Ham is so great why did it take him 3 years to win a race in a top tier car? In far less competitive cars Max has never gone 3 years without a win. If he is so great why did Max humiliate him in 2021 in a slower car? If he is so great, why has he never won more than 5 races in a row where Max has won 10 in a row in a car not nearly as good as the MB? Why does he not hold the record for most wins or win% in a season with a car that any unskilled driver could win in? If he is so good, why did he get beaten by a driver with 3/10 skill level in Ros? If he's so good, why in worse cars did Max win more race in the first 200 than Ham did?

Like usual you will have no response for ANY of those question. Max is a vastly more naturally skilled and talented driver who did it without having any advantage like Ham did.

Talking about Ham 'winning' two races where he only got one via a DSQ is not winning a race. Much like probably 10% of his 'wins' they were gifts by the MB needing to swap because he couldnt beat a 1/10 driver in Bot LMFAO.

Hamilton was a WDC runner up in his rookie season and won it in his second season. He has the undisputed best rookie season ever. There is literally nothing more to say on his skill - he set the bar. LOL on beating Ham in a slower car and he can't even mount a challenge to Lando - who we can all argree isn't even top 5 talentwise. Max has a rocket in 2021 and legitimate lost on merit. If he didn't then why is AB21 controversial.

Max has had the fastest car and hasn't won in 5 races. I don't know what Max's failures have to do with Hamilton, but here we are. This is pathetic.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

He has the undisputed best rookie season ever.

Depends on how you look at it.
Jaques Villeneuve also was 2nd in his rookie season. HAM had a shared runner up with ALO (same amount of points and victories).
So I don't think it's 'undisputed'.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Depends on how you look at it.
Jaques Villeneuve also was 2nd in his rookie season. HAM had a shared runner up with ALO (same amount of points and victories).
So I don't think it's 'undisputed'.

He is actually ranked over Alonso so he's actually second - losing out to 1st place by 1 point.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Hamilton was a WDC runner up in his rookie season and won it in his second season. He has the undisputed best rookie season ever. There is literally nothing more to say on his skill - he set the bar. LOL on beating Ham in a slower car and he can't even mount a challenge to Lando - who we can all argree isn't even top 5 talentwise. Max has a rocket in 2021 and legitimate lost on merit. If he didn't then why is AB21 controversial.

Max has had the fastest car and hasn't won in 5 races. I don't know what Max's failures have to do with Hamilton, but here we are. This is pathetic.

LOL just as I said you did not respond to any of that and deflect because you have no response. Ham just like any idiot driver could have won in that MB - Mazepin, Latifi, and Sargeant would have look equally as good as Ham in that car. If Max had that car his stats would be way better than Ham's since in 3 years of a good car through 200 races, he has more wins than Ham did with 10 years of a world beater car. Face it, the guy's talent in pure average when you realize he cant win without the fastest car and even then, the races he's had the fastest car this year, he'd not really there. He cant even beat Rus who we know isnt even a top 10 driver. Nor is certainly better than Ham or Rus.

Ham won? He won because a team cheated and the Eclestone admits to covering it up. Nothing won there.

Max had not had the fastest car since before Miami and still has more wins than all others by some margin. He had the 4th fastest in Imola and won, 2nd fastest in Spain and won, 3rd fastest in Canada and won. Those in the faster car couldnt beat him despite better performance.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Depends on how you look at it.
Jaques Villeneuve also was 2nd in his rookie season. HAM had a shared runner up with ALO (same amount of points and victories).
So I don't think it's 'undisputed'.

Yes and Villeneuve we all know, just like Ham, got the best car. ANY driver could have done that in that mclaren especially when you consider the fact that they were giving Ham upgrades Alo did not get since they were favoring him per Ron Dennis' orders. And he still couldnt beat Alo. If Max had gotten a car that good his first year he'd have won and beaten Alo and Kimi.

[AmuroRay]

I'm not going to read Heel Toe's post because there isn't anything that he can say that will matter.

Max has had the fastest car, and he's still losing. He could NEVER accomplish this in his rookie season because he never was and never will be the driver Lewis is. He lost to Daniel who while good, clearly isn't Lewis level.

His fans are in denial - I like Max as driver, I think he's very good. But Hamilton is clearly a tier above him and everyone else on the grid.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Yes and Villeneuve we all know, just like Ham, got the best car.

Absolutely true. Also they were in an era that can't be compared to how rookies now enter F1.
Back then, drivers and rookies got unlimited/unrestricted testing time. So rookies had lots and lots of hours of testing experience in the car they got to drive, unlike now, where they might get 1 or 2 FP's and maybe a tyre testing day (so with different tyres than they get to race).
The rest of the rookie's experience is build up by simulator work and cars from years past.
So Bearman and Lawson getting dropped in an F1 car as replacement and still scoring decent results is also quite the achievement. No one knows how Villeneuve or Hamilton would've done in their place.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Absolutely true. Also they were in an era that can't be compared to how rookies now enter F1.
Back then, drivers and rookies got unlimited/unrestricted testing time. So rookies had lots and lots of hours of testing experience in the car they got to drive, unlike now, where they might get 1 or 2 FP's and maybe a tyre testing day (so with different tyres than they get to race).
The rest of the rookie's experience is build up by simulator work and cars from years past.
So Bearman and Lawson getting dropped in an F1 car as replacement and still scoring decent results is also quite the achievement. No one knows how Villeneuve or Hamilton would've done in their place.

They would be sucessful because they are actually good. If they are a product of their era, why didn't anyone else replicate it before or since? If they are a product of the "best car" (which unironically is Max's entire career) why did Ham go on to win his second year? How was he able to overcome a X2 WDC in his ROOKIE season.

The hardest competition Max faced in the same car was a guy who never placed more than 3rd in the WDC. Such talent.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

They would be sucessful because they are actually good. If they are a product of their era, why didn't anyone else replicate it before or since? If they are a product of the "best car" (which unironically is Max's entire career) why did Ham go on to win his second year? How was he able to overcome a X2 WDC in his ROOKIE season.

The hardest competition Max faced in the same car was a guy who never placed more than 3rd in the WDC. Such talent.

You literally just described Ham's career of very little results unless his car had a material advantage. His MB for 8 years was equivalent to one driver having a GT3 cup car vs another driven in a base 911 - you could be a total clown with no talent and win - and the results showed just that. Max won more in a lesser car before 2021, then in 2021 won in a slower car, in 2022 had a slower car for most of the year and won, 2023 his skills took a car that barely managed any podiums with the other car and put up the absolute best season we will ever see in F1 (I think he set 19 records that year which most will never be even approached) - one no MB driver from 2014-2021 could ever dream of since none had the talent to do it - and in 2024 with the 2nd-4th fastest car for most of the season still has nearly 4 times more wins than anyone else. No one of the grid would have won more than 1 or 2 races in Max's RBR, let alone 7.

Ham was not able to overcome a WDC in his rookie season. Your attempts to twist facts can be seen through as clear as glass. Plus Ham got favored on upgrades over Alo and STILL COULD NOT BEAT HIM since Alo won more races. They both still got owned by Kimi in a slower car. What happened to Ham after crashgate when he still had the best car? He was a complete nobody who couldnt win until that 80-100 hp advantage came into play. Then when that advantage went away, for 3 years he did nothing.

Max has beaten Ham, Kimi, Alo, and Vet - all multi WDC winners sans Kimi and has raced against the most competitive F1 grid since Sch raced in the 90's.