I Got A Summons...I Need Your Help...

[xxballinboi786]

now that would be perfect...i just hope the judge doesnt see a 16 year old and think im making an unreasonable request

[ATG]

Posted speed limit is normally the best evidence of what speed is reasonable in the area, unless there were special circumstances: the road was excessively slippery, icy, or there was some limited visibilty (like fog), etc. That can be only established by someone's testimony, and that was not the case in your situation anyway (unless I missed something). So, if you where at or under the speed limit, there is no grounds for the judge to find that your speed was unreasonable. I would also downplay the fast acceleration as much as you can -- the judge will not like that even if you were under the speed limit. Even if the cop shows up (which is unlikely), stick to your story -- there is no hard evidence agaisnt you except what the cop might say. And then again, you may ask him about the customary methods of measuring one's speed, which are either using a radar or following the car. Neither was used in your case. And measuring speed by "visual observation" is both silly and arbitrary.

[Driver72]

And be completely and utterly respectful of the officer and especially the judge at the court hearing.
DO NOT point fingers at the officer and say things like "he's just making that speed up."
Be more professional if he says in court you were going 40 mph or something.
Say, "your honor, with all due respect for the officer and his job, I asked him on several occasions why I was being ticketed. When he said for speeding I told him several times I was not speeding, and asked what speed he thought I was going. He did not respond to me in each of those requests."
Then say something like, "though I am young, I am very conscience and mature about my driving. I realized the speed limit in that area was 30 mph and was diligent about not exceeding that speed."

If the judge asks you, and he/she probably will, "why do you think the officer pulled you over?"

DO NOT say, "because I'm a young kid in a nice car" or anything silly like that.
Tell the truth, say, "I feel he pulled me over because I did accelerate away from the light swiftly. In doing so, I did not race the car, did not spin the tires and did not do so in a reckless manner. I stepped on the accelerator a bit harder than I meant to and the car accelerated away from the light swiftly. However, I immediately lifted my foot off the throttle.
I did not exceed the speed limit, as I immediately looked down to see my speedometer said 30 mph. A few moments later the officer came up behind me and pulled me over.
I believe he accidently was mistaken in thinking I was speeding because he saw my car accelerate away from him swiftly for a split second.
I also believe that's why he did not put a speed down on the ticket for me.
He did not clock my speed on a radar gun, nor did he pace me at a speed over 30 mph.
Your honor I believe it was a little lapse in judgement on the officers part citing me for this. I respectfully ask that you dismiss my citation because of that.
I can also tell you one thing, being pulled over was not a good feeling for me, and even though I was not speeding, I will surely be more careful and judicial in the use of the accelerator pedal when I leave a light in the future."

BTW, it's false to think a radar gun cannot tell speed with an object moving away from you.
If he was sitting at the light and you sped off, he could of measured your speed. But clearly he did not otherwise he would of wrote it on the ticket.

And lastly, for God's sake before you jackrabbit start away from a light in the future, look around you first to make sure there are no cops in the vacinity.

Good luck and again, be professional, polite and respectful at all times in court.

[MIKEYBKLYN]

In NYS, a cop does NOT need to detect your speed on a radar/laser to stop you for speeding or give you a ticket. Cops (esp highway) are trained to estimate speed by eye (using landmarks, etc) The radar/laser only makes his case stronger.

I would definetely plead not guilty and show up in court. On the odd chance he shows up, before you are called, pull him aside and ask him to agree to not add points and for you to just pay a fine.

I've done this before.

[John 070]

I think the general rule is if you have a lot of time on your hands, you can always feel free to fight any charges. There is a lot at stake when you have a clean driving record, are getting a discount and even a 5 yr. no incident discount on your insurance, and then you are assessed points for a moving violation. You'll not just pay once, but over several years. So why not fight?

But you guys are fixated on a lack of speed or radar. That's not necessary. Look at the VAT in NYS:

§ 1180. Basic rule and maximum limits. (a) No person shall drive a
vehicle at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the
conditions and having regard to the actual and potential hazards then
existing.

All the officer has to do is bring into question what is reasonable and prudent. Is it reasonable to accelerate as fast as a 335 can accelerate from 0 to 30 say on 2nd Ave. and 43rd St.? No, that wouldn't be prudent because there is so much density with regard to vehicles and peds. So you think a police officer must radar you and cite your mph to summons you if you punch it from 43rd to 42nd and peel out, but never exceed 30 mph? The red light cam will catch you as well based on your velocity, not just crossing the line when red.

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by HyperM3

By law youre allowed to ask to see the readout on the radar gun. If theres nothing there to read then its not legal. You can even take a pic of it with your camera or cell phone if you want to prove it. Secondly, radar doesnt work from behind. A cop has to pace you from behind to get your speed. Its physically impossible to get a rate of speed from a radar gun from something moving away from you. So if he says he didnt use the gun but paced you, its also impossible for him to have paced you when there were cars in between.

Is it a speeding summons or an "exhibition of speed"? If you peel away (even without tire squeal), you can be cited for exhibition. Just because you don't exceed a limit imposed on the road with which you were travelling, you can accelerate too quickly to the posted limit. Fightable nonetheless, just something to think about.

[HyperM3]

Originally Posted by thekurgan

Is it a speeding summons or an "exhibition of speed"? If you peel away (even without tire squeal), you can be cited for exhibition. Just because you don't exceed a limit imposed on the road with which you were travelling, you can accelerate too quickly to the posted limit. Fightable nonetheless, just something to think about.

Um, gee officer, Im still getting used to my car and this dang drive-by-wire keeps catching me off guard. I sure hope to get used to it soon because it makes me feel like I have to learn how to drive all over again.


DUh, sounds good to me dont ya think?

[Bimmer335i07]

Don't worry about it. He just gave you a ticket because you're a teenager with a nice car. Just go to court and plead not guilty. You case will be dismissed and you will drive home happy in your Bimmer. Just make sure that same cop is not leaving behind you.

[BK]

Originally Posted by HyperM3

Secondly, radar doesnt work from behind. A cop has to pace you from behind to get your speed. Its physically impossible to get a rate of speed from a radar gun from something moving away from you.

Just to clarify - this is not true these days. I understand that early radar guns were designed to be stationary, but newer models can be used on the move, including from behind a car moving away from them. http://www.radarbusters.com/2003rada...indarticle.cfm

I'm not saying the OP was radar-ed, just that you shouldn't feel comfortable thinking the cop behind you can't use his radar on you.

[purpl3ish]

definitely fight it..plead not guilty..the cops are legally obligated to tell you and show you how fast you were going if you were radared..where are you located in ny? i paid $200 to a lawyer that got me out of a 83 in a 65 speeding ticket here

[xxballinboi786]

Originally Posted by cruiseluva62886

definitely fight it..plead not guilty..the cops are legally obligated to tell you and show you how fast you were going if you were radared..where are you located in ny? i paid $200 to a lawyer that got me out of a 83 in a 65 speeding ticket here

thanks...im located in yonkers...im going to try what driver72 and most of the other members have said, and try to plead my case as respectfully as possible

[xxballinboi786]

Originally Posted by Driver72

And be completely and utterly respectful of the officer and especially the judge at the court hearing.
DO NOT point fingers at the officer and say things like "he's just making that speed up."
Be more professional if he says in court you were going 40 mph or something.
Say, "your honor, with all due respect for the officer and his job, I asked him on several occasions why I was being ticketed. When he said for speeding I told him several times I was not speeding, and asked what speed he thought I was going. He did not respond to me in each of those requests."
Then say something like, "though I am young, I am very conscience and mature about my driving. I realized the speed limit in that area was 30 mph and was diligent about not exceeding that speed."

If the judge asks you, and he/she probably will, "why do you think the officer pulled you over?"

DO NOT say, "because I'm a young kid in a nice car" or anything silly like that.
Tell the truth, say, "I feel he pulled me over because I did accelerate away from the light swiftly. In doing so, I did not race the car, did not spin the tires and did not do so in a reckless manner. I stepped on the accelerator a bit harder than I meant to and the car accelerated away from the light swiftly. However, I immediately lifted my foot off the throttle.
I did not exceed the speed limit, as I immediately looked down to see my speedometer said 30 mph. A few moments later the officer came up behind me and pulled me over.
I believe he accidently was mistaken in thinking I was speeding because he saw my car accelerate away from him swiftly for a split second.
I also believe that's why he did not put a speed down on the ticket for me.
He did not clock my speed on a radar gun, nor did he pace me at a speed over 30 mph.
Your honor I believe it was a little lapse in judgement on the officers part citing me for this. I respectfully ask that you dismiss my citation because of that.
I can also tell you one thing, being pulled over was not a good feeling for me, and even though I was not speeding, I will surely be more careful and judicial in the use of the accelerator pedal when I leave a light in the future."

BTW, it's false to think a radar gun cannot tell speed with an object moving away from you.
If he was sitting at the light and you sped off, he could of measured your speed. But clearly he did not otherwise he would of wrote it on the ticket.

And lastly, for God's sake before you jackrabbit start away from a light in the future, look around you first to make sure there are no cops in the vacinity.

Good luck and again, be professional, polite and respectful at all times in court.

thank you for the very very insightful and helpful tips...honestly, thank you very much for taking your time out to help me like that

[xxballinboi786]

quick question guys...i can go to court by myself even though im under 18 right?

[M4TW]

He was trying to bait you into agreeing that you were speeding because he had nothing on you otherwise. Just show up in court. If the cop even bothers to show or the prosecutor doesn't simply withdraw the charge, just let them try to put a case in based on that horse shit. The cop's only option is to admit he has no idea how fast you were going. If he tries to make something up, you can answer with "I see .... can you please show the court, officer, where this speed measurement of yours is recorded on the ticket you issued me?"

If the speed doesn't exist, you must acquit.

[RonPaul4Prez]

Originally Posted by xxballinboi786

quick question guys...i can go to court by myself even though im under 18 right?

Yes. And to answer an earlier question, a cop can just state that you were speeding (with no radar,pacing, laser, etc.) because he not only saw your driving, but is "trained" to recognize such things.

[2007_E93]

Originally Posted by RonPaul4Prez

Yes. And to answer an earlier question, a cop can just state that you were speeding (with no radar,pacing, laser, etc.) because he not only saw your driving, but is "trained" to recognize such things.

I had similar incidences (twice now) with "estimation of speed". The officer does NOT need a radar gun. He can gauge your speed based on daily life observances. As in a hit and run you ask how fast was the car going and a person can make a reasonable estimate of speed. Coming from a cop they will win over a 16 year old every day. My cousin is an attorney (free legal counsel) and he recommended that I fight the most recent ticket I got. At court I was instructed to plead NOT GUILTY and "ASK" for a trial. If the cop shows up you are then up against the cop and your word against his. Who do you think wins this battle if you are 16? So, you next move is to plead "NO CONTEST" when the traffic judge (NOT real judge btw) reads the violation in court and asks if you want to change your plea. Because you change your plea and don't waste the courts time you get to pay the fine plus court cost (usually ~$30) with NO POINTS if decent driving record. If the cop doesnt show then its thrown out. You have to INITIALLY plead not guilty in order to have this option. Last ticket I got was to be $100 plust 3-4 points. I pleaded no contest and paid $130 with no points and no driving school for about 2 hours of my time.

This worked in FL,...hope laws and courts are similar in NY. Good luck.

[sand99]

ballinboi: While I agree with the others that you should be able to win this case, I think it's imperative that you get a lawyer to help you with this. No offense, but before you say a word the judge is going to look at your age, the fact that you've got a very nice car, and think you're the next Nick Hogan waiting to happen. Everyone on the forums knows you're a nice guy who acts very mature for his age (this is my 1st post, but I've been lurking these forums for a few months now), but the judge doesn't know you. All the judge is going to see is yet another 16 year old in his/her courtroom with a fast car that they have no business driving. Right or wrong, that's the first impression the judge is going to have of you just because that's what they see everyday. Even though the ticket doesn't list your speed, as others have mentioned you can be pulled over for accelerating too quickly.

And the part about the camera is false. Even though many patrol cars are equipped with cameras nowdays, the camera doesn't actually activate until the cop turns on his siren. So you won't be able to request video footage to see how the cop determined your speed. All the video is basically going to show is your conversation with the officer.

If you do decide to take this to court without a lawyer, driver72's advice is very good, but I still don't think that will help you due to your age. I say all of this from personal experience. Back in college a buddy of mine on his motorcycle was ticketed for the same thing as you. Again, his ticket didn't have his speed on it either. He lost his case. Personally I just think the judges just see age and automatically side with the officer, no matter what evidence you present at trial.

And finally, just for future reference, and I say this with all due respect. Dude, you've got to realize you're a minority who is under age and driving a nice car. You are going to attract the attention of law enforcement everywhere you go, EVEN if you're 100% obeying the law. I'm a black guy driving an RSX-S, and I get attention from cops, and I'm 30. I've been tailed by cops more times than I can remember. They'll make a U-turn and tail me for a few blocks while they check my plates (I'm assuming checking for warrants, if the car has been stolen, etc) and then go back about their business in the other direction. I can't imagine the attention I'm going to draw from law enforcement once I pull the trigger on an e92. You're almost half my age driving an e93 335i, so you're bound to get just as much, if not more attention!!

Always remember that everytime you strap in to your e93. Never forget and good luck to you!

[purpl3ish]

well yeah you could still go to court and fight it..like i said..you could also get quotes from traffic violation lawyers, they won't charge you probably more than 3 or 400 dollars tops. they would go to court for u if it came down to that and take care of everything. but most likely if you go to court, you'll plea bargain because if you go to a trial you will most likely lose unless you've got a lawyer present or maybe ull be lucky and the cop doesn't show up..which means your case gets thrown out and you win =)

[flush01]

find a private lawyer who charges like $200 and let him do his thing... my lawyer called me few days ago, 2 speeding tickets completely gone... he took care of other 7 i had COMPLETELY.... knock on wood ... so that ticket of yours is a PIECE OF CAKE to take off

[Holygrail]

I got many tickets in my younger years and from my experience, he lost...and here's why. He left out crucial info...such as exact speed. You're right...he couldn't have gunned you from 3 cars behind. In any speeding ticket, the cop has to know two important information. (1) cop has to know exact speed and (2) time of offense. Without this, it's automatically thrown out. But you have to point that out to the judge and the best way is thru your lawyer. If you get a lawyer, you got this case nailed 95%. I got busted for going 90mph and I beat the case b/c he didn't know "exactly" how fast I was going. Another time I was going 50 in a 35mph zone but I happened to be passing another vehicle when he zapped me with the radar. My lawyer pointed out that it was inconclusive and the case was dropped.

In your case, an important element associated to speeding tickets is the speed itself, and that info is not provided. That's like being busted stealing candy in a candy store only for the owner to find out that your pockets are empty. So how can you be charged for stealing candy when there's no candy in your pockets or hands? That is called an assumption and assumptions don't prove anything. Assumption is the mother of all fuckups...and the cop fucked up. Don't deviate from what you already told the cop. You told him you went 35mph. Do not admit to that to the judge b/c that can incriminate you. Do not lie and say that you only when 28mph either. Just say that instead of speeding, you ONLY accelerated to 30mph. You can't speed but you can say that the only thing you're guilty of is doing 0-30. Anyways, you're not going to say anything. Your lawyer will. Pay the damn lawyer $200 for his 10 minute glory in court and walk away with 0 points. Worse case scenario is you'll pay for court fees or admin fees. Good luck and don't worry...but hire a lawyer.

Chris

Originally Posted by xxballinboi786

i was at a red light, no one around...a few cars pulled up behind me, and alongside me, but no one ahead...i thought, hey i havent used DS mode in a while, why not give it a shot...so i switched to sport mode and accelerated pretty fast to 35 mph and then let go, i looked in my rear view mirror and most of the cars were pretty far backk so i dropped to 30 and kept going...i made the turn for the street to my house and a cop pulls me over [he was at least 3 cars behind me, so even if was speeding, he coouldnt of detected it with his radar]...i had my top down...

officer: hi speed racer
me: excuse me? [i tried to be as polite as possible]
officer: can i see your license and registration
me: yes sir, what did i do wrong?
officer: you dont think you were speeding?
me: no, i only went to 35, i admit i accelerated quickly, but i dont think i was speeding...how fast was i going?
officer: you dont think you were speeding?
me: no officer, i honestly dont...but how fast was i going?
officer: you were going fast
me: can i please get a warning officer?
officer: im not sure what im gonna do yet

15 minutes later he gives me a summons...what do you think i should do?

he didnt charge me with wreckless endangerment [which is what i thought was associated with quick acceleration], but instead with speeding...no speed limit is on the ticket...i dont think he even radared my car...

i really would appreciate if some guys on the forums could hold back the age comments...i really need help, and this isnt a great experience...

[scm6079]

FWIW, it doesn't matter if you were or were not going over the posted speed for a ticket of "unreasonable speed." You can get that ticket for doing 35mph in a 35mph zone!! That particular offense states that the officer, who is given the right to do this, feels your speed was inappropriate for the conditions he witnessed.

Although you may still have this thrown out or reduced in court it is not a "slam dunk sure thing" as stated in this thread earlier. Do your homework first before blindly challenging this...

_Scott

[gloster]

Originally Posted by Driver72

And be completely and utterly respectful of the officer and especially the judge at the court hearing.
DO NOT point fingers at the officer and say things like "he's just making that speed up."
Be more professional if he says in court you were going 40 mph or something.
Say, "your honor, with all due respect for the officer and his job, I asked him on several occasions why I was being ticketed. When he said for speeding I told him several times I was not speeding, and asked what speed he thought I was going. He did not respond to me in each of those requests."
Then say something like, "though I am young, I am very conscience and mature about my driving. I realized the speed limit in that area was 30 mph and was diligent about not exceeding that speed."

If the judge asks you, and he/she probably will, "why do you think the officer pulled you over?"

DO NOT say, "because I'm a young kid in a nice car" or anything silly like that.
Tell the truth, say, "I feel he pulled me over because I did accelerate away from the light swiftly. In doing so, I did not race the car, did not spin the tires and did not do so in a reckless manner. I stepped on the accelerator a bit harder than I meant to and the car accelerated away from the light swiftly. However, I immediately lifted my foot off the throttle.
I did not exceed the speed limit, as I immediately looked down to see my speedometer said 30 mph. A few moments later the officer came up behind me and pulled me over.
I believe he accidently was mistaken in thinking I was speeding because he saw my car accelerate away from him swiftly for a split second.
I also believe that's why he did not put a speed down on the ticket for me.
He did not clock my speed on a radar gun, nor did he pace me at a speed over 30 mph.
Your honor I believe it was a little lapse in judgement on the officers part citing me for this. I respectfully ask that you dismiss my citation because of that.
I can also tell you one thing, being pulled over was not a good feeling for me, and even though I was not speeding, I will surely be more careful and judicial in the use of the accelerator pedal when I leave a light in the future."

BTW, it's false to think a radar gun cannot tell speed with an object moving away from you.
If he was sitting at the light and you sped off, he could of measured your speed. But clearly he did not otherwise he would of wrote it on the ticket.

And lastly, for God's sake before you jackrabbit start away from a light in the future, look around you first to make sure there are no cops in the vacinity.

Good luck and again, be professional, polite and respectful at all times in court.

sage advice.