Are older 911's really worth it?

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Z K

New Porsches keep coming out, it's just a matter of time before the prices come back down. I can see GT cars and special models retaining value. But older Cayman, Boxsters and run of the mill Carreras are not that.

I was looking at a used 981 Cayman S or GTS. But cars that were selling for $50k just a few years ago are going for $60-70k now. WTF! So they are older, more used and now have gone up in price!?

Yes, because the 981s have an NA flat-6. The new 982/718s have a blown flat-4. Many purists consider that switch of equal heresy as the switch to water cooling.

Ergo, the used-market price hike (despite the 982/718 being a better car in almost every conceivable category.)

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Yes, because the 981s have an NA flat-6. The new 982/718s have a blown flat-4. Many purists consider that switch of equal heresy as the switch to water cooling.

Ergo, the used-market price hike (despite the 982/718 being a better car in almost every conceivable category.)

I've driven both. The turbo 4 is faster but it sounds like a Subaru. That is no joke. Definitely prefer the flat 6.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Z K

I've driven both. The turbo 4 is faster but it sounds like a Subaru. That is no joke. Definitely prefer the flat 6.

I own the turbo 4 -- also called the 718. I used to own a Subaru (WRX).

The turbo 4 sounds very little like a Subaru -- and what similarities are there are because, well, it's a flat-4. (Same layout and cycle pattern is gonna have similarities. I mean, duh!)

It actually sounds far closer to an air-cooled 911 engine. Some other owners liken it to a V-twin sportbike, or a flat-plane V8 with half the detonation pulses.

Trust me: It grows on you.

[RABAUKE]

I don't think the air-cooled 911's have peaked in value yet.....not that I ever plan on selling mine but I think there's room for increase.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by RABAUKE

I don't think the air-cooled 911's have peaked in value yet.....not that I ever plan on selling mine but I think there's room for increase.

I think you're right. 964's are probably close, but 993's still have a bit further to go.

[RABAUKE]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I think you're right. 964's are probably close, but 993's still have a bit further to go.

Fingers crossed. I had a 996 about 10 years ago. The car was pretty good but I couldn't get past the fried egg headlights. The new Porsches are fantastic but I'm afraid I'm old school it seems. I keep buying older toys rather than going for the latest and greatest. Ah me.

[zer0cool]

No I don't think old 911s are worth it.

The 991.2 base cars have tremendous performance matching that of much higher trimmed older cars, come with modern tech and comfort. Honestly don't think you really save much buying new vs. a few years used.

[Alfisti]

All this 991.1 and 781.8 and 911.2 and 996.4 .... jesus ... absolute gibberish, nfi what anyone is talking about.

So I splurged and rented a 2012 Carrera S for the long weekend. Flat 6 so let's seee how she goes, never driven something like this on the road, track is a different experience.

[Darth One]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

All this 991.1 and 781.8 and 911.2 and 996.4 .... jesus ... absolute gibberish, nfi what anyone is talking about.

So I splurged and rented a 2012 Carrera S for the long weekend. Flat 6 so let's seee how she goes, never driven something like this on the road, track is a different experience.

nice 997.2

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by Darth One

nice 997.2

2012S can also be a 991...

[Run Silent]

^ this. And in my opinion, the 991 is a vastly improved car over the 997. I feel the quality of the interior and other bits are a direct comparison to the new BMW's with this model.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

^ this. And in my opinion, the 991 is a vastly improved car over the 997. I feel the quality of the interior and other bits are a direct comparison to the new BMW's with this model.

991's definitely banished the last echoes of 996 interior parts that haunted the 997. But the EPS and larger car aren't quite as much fun. I still think the 997.2 is the most fun you can have with a water cooled Porsche.

[Red Bread]

The half carpeted rear seats have always made me laugh. And yes, the amount of hard, brittle feeling plastic in a 997 is pretty appalling. And paying thousands to wrap it in super cheap leather always seemed silly too.

[10"]

NO.

Have driven loads of Porsches all different eras and types. Good cars. Massively overhyped.

For those budgets I have a list a mile long of "other" classic cars I'd rather buy.

People love to love them because they're told to. I acknowledge they are well made and well engineered but just not for me. Porsches are like the Hollywood version of "sports cars".

[Darth One]

A few points:

1. Porsches are about the driving experience above pretty much everything. Until recently they almost took a perverse pride in forgoing luxury accoutrements for "purity". Like bmw used to (ok that was a low blow ). So to judge them on electronics or leather quality is all just missing the point. Not to say that those who miss the point are wrong or stupid - you're probably just not the target market.

2. They are massively overhyped right now. Sucks for those of us who hope to fly under the radar and buy these upjumped VW bugs on the cheap.

3. He who buys a tiptronic 911 to flip takes his life into his own hands

[Nikolas]

I love my 964. She still drives like a dream at 27. Also has a 3.8l upgrade, bilstein coil overs, rs sways.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Z K

New Porsches keep coming out, it's just a matter of time before the prices come back down. I can see GT cars and special models retaining value. But older Cayman, Boxsters and run of the mill Carreras are not that.

I was looking at a used 981 Cayman S or GTS. But cars that were selling for $50k just a few years ago are going for $60-70k now. WTF! So they are older, more used and now have gone up in price!?

Friend of mine bought a very low mileage Cayman GTS few months back. That car sounds amazing! Beautiful to drive.

[bvanlieu]

The general bubble of Porsche is creeping into the 997 and 996 cars even. The 996 is the ugly duckling and a good value (if you can get past the headlights: its tough for some, and the buttons inside).

Aircooled prices are stupid, but people have money to spend on the myth more then the driving experience as they are not 50-100% the experience of driving a 996/997.

996 cars have an IMS that you can retrofit, but many are higher mileage at this point and well, if it was gonna go it would have.

997.1 have a different design, not perfect but also not something you can get at unless you crack the block open.

997.2, its gone, but the problem here is that was at the start of the recession so the number of cars around are very low, helping to drive prices up. My personal favorite is the 997.2, it has a slightly cleaner interior but still a simple car. The 991.1 is a nicer interior for modern factor but for me its a big leap forward away from a classic 911 look.

The NA cars prices are being driven up slightly by enthusiasts knowing there is no longer a simple NA 911 to buy (GT3 is not simple nor affordable for most). Yes the 991.2 turbo cars are a better car to drive in many ways, but I don't personally want one.

We have a 2.7 NA cayman now and hammer on it with glee. A 320-350 HP NA 911 would be a hoot. 400HP+ doesn't entice me for a street, but some folks want the bragging rights. A sparsely optioned C2 is quite a relative bargain of a sports car to drive if you can find one. Most C2S's are heavily optioned also driving prices higher.

The bargains are going to be with the 987.1/2 cars (and 981) as they are viewed as lesser cars (which is ignorant but I am fine with that, keep the prices lower). Caymans are a hoot to drive. Yes different then a 911, but for 1/2 the price at times...well worth it.

- b

[RABAUKE]

Originally Posted by bvanlieu

The general bubble of Porsche is creeping into the 997 and 996 cars even. The 996 is the ugly duckling and a good value (if you can get past the headlights: its tough for some, and the buttons inside).

Aircooled prices are stupid, but people have money to spend on the myth more then the driving experience as they are not 50-100% the experience of driving a 996/997.

996 cars have an IMS that you can retrofit, but many are higher mileage at this point and well, if it was gonna go it would have.

997.1 have a different design, not perfect but also not something you can get at unless you crack the block open.

997.2, its gone, but the problem here is that was at the start of the recession so the number of cars around are very low, helping to drive prices up. My personal favorite is the 997.2, it has a slightly cleaner interior but still a simple car. The 991.1 is a nicer interior for modern factor but for me its a big leap forward away from a classic 911 look.

The NA cars prices are being driven up slightly by enthusiasts knowing there is no longer a simple NA 911 to buy (GT3 is not simple nor affordable for most). Yes the 991.2 turbo cars are a better car to drive in many ways, but I don't personally want one.

We have a 2.7 NA cayman now and hammer on it with glee. A 320-350 HP NA 911 would be a hoot. 400HP+ doesn't entice me for a street, but some folks want the bragging rights. A sparsely optioned C2 is quite a relative bargain of a sports car to drive if you can find one. Most C2S's are heavily optioned also driving prices higher.

The bargains are going to be with the 987.1/2 cars (and 981) as they are viewed as lesser cars (which is ignorant but I am fine with that, keep the prices lower). Caymans are a hoot to drive. Yes different then a 911, but for 1/2 the price at times...well worth it.

- b

I've owned a 996 and now have a 993. I wouldn't say the driving experience is 50% of the 996. It's a great car, and in some respects much more car in that besides ABS there are no nannies on board. Plus the 993 has to be one of the best looking of all the Porsches, and for what its worth thats an opinion held by lots of Porsche enthusiasts. With respect to the 997.2 is a great car and I was looking at them seriously when I bought the 993.

[P1]

Remember, it's not the price you pay now. It's the difference between what you pay now and what you'll sell her when that day comes.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

I've been lurking rennlist's "hot for sale" 991.1 thread for a while. https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=863603

I'd buy a Cayman if I didn't need to fit golf clubs in my car. A 991 can fit a full set of clubs in the back seat and fit a push cart in the frunk.

[mmmmQuattro]

I think the general consensus is that 911s just aren't worth the money - it's either all emotional or you pay the premium on the basis that they will hold their value.

It's mid 2018 and here in Australia, a manual 2006 991s (997.1) is US $80k

You can also get a 2016 manual M3 for US $70k - less than the 911 !!!

WTF??? - there's no way that a 12 year old 997 is worth $10k more than a F80 in what looks like immaculate condition.

Interestingly, over the weekend, i saw an article in the local papers which indicated that luxury car sales are down nearly 10% on last year.
This might indicate that as the new car prices start to soften, so would the used car prices. After all, when there's not much difference between a new model and a used one, why not get a new one?

I still like the 911, but i can't see the value anymore.